Is sinless perfection possible in this life?

[Daniel Marsh]

Is sinless perfection possible in this life?

 

[Psykes]

I had just searched this and just asked somebody about this.
Before you even posted this.
I was told that you must give your free will away to god.
That you may serve him with your life.
It's helpful.
I would love to surrender myself fully to him and his son!

 

[chevyontheriver]

Is sinless perfection possible in this life?

I haven't been able to do it.

 

[Psykes]

also reject sin!
Sin is like an evil whisper in your mind.
Silence it with resistance!
The question is, how to tell if it is sin or not?

 

[dad]

Is sinless perfection possible in this life?

No.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Is sinless perfection possible in this life?

Well these are some of the requirements that would have to be met:

No.impure thoughts whatsoever.
You must perfectly, at all times, without one slip love all those you come into contact with.
This would include those who malign you, slander you, persecute you.
If someone steals something of yours you must offer them more besides what they have taken, with nothing but love in your heart for them

Give to anyone who asks, without expecting anything I return.

As sin is transgression of the law, you would have to perfectly obey the law of God without fault.
That means perfectly obeying the letter the bible says kills

 

[Soyeong]

Is sinless perfection possible in this life?

Philippians 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Sinless perfection should be our goal by faith, but we are works in progress towards that goal that will not be completed until the day of Christ Jesus.

 

[John Hyperspace]

As I'm lead to understand, it depends upon your point of view (or, rather, the eyes of the law). It's possible to be viewed as sinless by the law if you're under grace. In other words, sin is imputed by the law, so if you're under law you're convicted of sin, but if you're under grace sin isn't imputed thus you're technically sinless, even though you break the law.

 

[Soyeong]

As I'm lead to understand, it depends upon your point of view (or, rather, the eyes of the law). It's possible to be viewed as sinless by the law if you're under grace. In other words, sin is imputed by the law, so if you're under law you're convicted of sin, but if you're under grace sin isn't imputed thus you're technically sinless, even though you break the law.

Before people knew what sin was, ignorance was an excuse, but now that the law has been given and we know which things God considers to be sin, we can either choose to practice obedience or disobedience, but we can no longer claim ignorance. According to Romans 6:15, being under grace does mean that we are permitted to do what God has revealed to be sin, so it doesn't make any sense to say that we are not under God's law when we are not permitted to transgress it. If we could no longer sin, then the NT would not need to be full of exhortations to not sin and warnings against lawlessness. If you have never been under the law, then you have never needed Messiah to come and give himself to redeem you from all lawlessness and you have never needed grace. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what God has revealed to godly, righteous, and good and trained to renounce doing what God has revealed to be ungodly and sinful, which is essentially what the law was given to instruct how to do (Romans 7:12, Romans 7:7). So if we are under grace, then that means that we are being trained by God to be more like Messiah in his obedience to the law.

 

[Wolf_Says]

Is sinless perfection possible in this life?

No, personally I (nor the Catholic Church) believe that being completely sinless in this life is possible (unless you are Mary, and that is by the Grace of God).

As humans, we are prone to sin, and we sin every single day whether we are completely aware of it or not. It's just how we are. The one and only time that we will be sinless perfection is when (if) we get to heaven.

Thats it.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

also reject sin!
Sin is like an evil whisper in your mind.
Silence it with resistance!
The question is, how to tell if it is sin or not?

That is not my question, thanks for input

 

[dayhiker]

I doubt it. I think its part of being human to sin. Paul said love doesn't hurt your neighbor. I doubt any of us know enough about our neighbors to not hurt them at some point.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Is sinless perfection possible in this life?

If sinless perfection is possible in this life, then Jesus wasted His time dying on the cross for us. The very fact that He became our substitute for sin shows that there is none righteous, no not one, and there is no hope that we will ever be of ourselves. Striving toward sinless perfection will lead only to self-righteousness and pride. This was the fault of the pharisee in the temple who prided himself on being better than others, while the publican said just, "Lord, forgive me a sinner." Jesus said that it was the latter and not the former who left justified before God.

The rich young ruler came as close as anyone to sinless perfection, and Jesus acknowledged it, but He pointed to the one fault the rich guy had, and told Him to sell his possessions and follow Him. The rich ruler went away sad because he couldn't bring himself to do that. Therefore, he wasn't totally perfect.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I haven't been able to do it.

You never will no matter how hard you try. It is better to put your trust in Jesus that if He doesn't like you, He will change you. Your standing with God, without guilt or fear, depends on your faith in Christ and your belief that He is the Son of God and that He rose from the dead. Believing that clothes you in the righteousness of Christ and puts you in the right standing before God. In fact, it puts you up with Jesus at God's right hand. You are justified by faith and by faith alone. Sanctification is a slower, developmental process that will not be completed until you are glorified in the presence of Christ when He comes again. Faith in Christ makes you totally acceptable to God because Jesus took your sin on the cross with Him, and gave you His sinless righteousness in place of it. His righteousness is your wedding garment when you go to sit down at the great banquet after Jesus comes again. That's why the gospel is such good news to us all.

 

[dayhiker]

I guess for me if once could get to sinless perfection in this life, it would be because of what Jesus did on the cross.

 

[1watchman]

The best answer to this question, it seems, is to understand our State and our Standing ---two inter-related but different things. A true "born again" believer in Jesus, the Christ of God has a perfect STANDING in Christ as an eternal redeemed soul --a "child of God"; but his spiritual STATE is always the issue for us. God speaks of this often in the NT, and we who know God are often enjoined to "walk in the Spirit" and overcome sin, and honor God. The true saints of God still have the flesh problem in our nature (as from the Fall in Genesis 2). We who are "...of God" need to condemn sin and own our failures daily ---as 1 Jn. 1: 8-9, which I see as rescue verses from dishonor to God, for all redeemed souls. Let us press on faithfully.

 

[NeoScholasticism]

Is sinless perfection possible in this life?

Daniel Marsh,

As someone else has pointed out above, the Catholic position would be that total sinlessness in this life is not possible with the ordinary aid of grace, but only with the extraordinary aid of grace.

One might nuance that point a bit more by making mention of the grave-venial sin distinction in Catholic theology. Justification, in Catholic theology, is a corollary of sanctifying grace being infused into the soul, making it really proportioned to friendship with God. Serious sin or "mortal sin" expels that sanctifying grace from the soul. Venial sin is any sin which does not expel that sanctifying grace from the soul, but merely weakens it. Therefore, mortal sin expels justification, while venial sin does not.

This distinction is important because there are two kinds of sinlessness in Scholastic Catholic theology. The first is achieved by the ordinary aid of grace, and it guarantees the help to avoid all mortal sin, but not all venial sin. All justified Christians are promised this grace, although sometimes it is rejected. The second is achieved by the extraordinary aid of grace, and it guarantees the help to avoid both all mortal sin and all venial sin, although sometimes it is rejected.

If I can remember correctly, some theologians also make the distinction between faults and venial sin. Faults are those actions which are not sinful because all relevant obligations are fulfilled, but which still are imperfectly done.

Finally, there is a distinction even between faults and neglect of inspiration. For example, say a man is inspired to pray a Psalm daily, rather than praying without focus as he goes to sleep. He briefly considers it, but finally ignores it. He has committed no sin, for he was already fulfilling his obligation to pray. Nor did he even commit a fault in neglecting the inspiration (although his current prayer habits might dispose him to fault in that area). Rather, he has failed to follow those inspirations leading him up higher.

At any rate, it is held by Catholic theology that every justified Christian is called to intimate union with God even here on earth. Such intimacy involves continual progress in the spiritual life by removing sinful obstacles with the aid of ordinary grace. True, even those who have reached the heights of such intimacy are not guaranteed the extraordinary aid of grace in freedom from all venial sin. However, God is never outdone in generosity in the spiritual life.

In Sanguine Agni

 

[Daniel Marsh]

ok

 

[Daniel Marsh]

If sinless perfection is possible in this life, then Jesus wasted His time dying on the cross for us. The very fact that He became our substitute for sin shows that there is none righteous, no not one, and there is no hope that we will ever be of ourselves. Striving toward sinless perfection will lead only to self-righteousness and pride. This was the fault of the pharisee in the temple who prided himself on being better than others, while the publican said just, "Lord, forgive me a sinner." Jesus said that it was the latter and not the former who left justified before God.

The rich young ruler came as close as anyone to sinless perfection, and Jesus acknowledged it, but He pointed to the one fault the rich guy had, and told Him to sell his possessions and follow Him. The rich ruler went away sad because he couldn't bring himself to do that. Therefore, he wasn't totally perfect.

I am happy we agree. I read somewhere that Smith W believed in sinless perfection. Do you know anything about that?

 

[jerry kelso]

I am happy we agree. I read somewhere that Smith W believed in sinless perfection. Do you know anything about that?

danielmarsh,

1. There is a sinless perfection doctrine that says once you get saved you have no possibility to sin at all based on 1 John 3:8; whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin for his seed remained he in him.
If this was the whole context it would contradict 1John 2 that says we have an advocate with the father who is the propitiation for our sins and the sins of the world.
The condition is abiding.I worked with people that believed and it is wrong and they found out when one of their own was found to be in moral sin.

2. John Wesley believed in what was known as sinless perfection but not as the previous one I mentioned.
Wesley believed that one could get to the point that they followed Christ so close and we're so in love with God that the temptations had no appeal of any kind.
John Wesley and Smith Wigglesworth understood the destruction of the ravages of sin and so they were not enticed by the falling of sin. At the same time they understood that sin had power and they could fall if they were not on guard.
They definitely didn't think they didn't make mistakes but they would be much lesser things than most Christians think of sinning.

2. Biblically, Galatians says if we walk in the flesh we won't fulfill the things of the flesh. If one remained in this state which technically is possible because of God's strength they would be sinless. The problem is man's free will cooperation.
Peter said, the flesh has ceased from sin so we won't fulfill the things of the flesh. The context is in the arm of suffering of Christ as the example who suffered and didn't sin through the anointing of the Holy Spirit power and cooperating with his Father.
Last, 1 John also says all unrighteousness is sin which covers a lot of ground.
It is a possibility but not necessarily a probability.
The mindset should be to imitate Christ, abstain from the appearance of evil, fight the good fight faith and not focus on the frailty of man but to be more than an overcomer or how sinless we think we are.
Paul had temptations but did everything to not sin for he glories in the cross.
Romans 7 is used as Paul sinning but that was life under the Mosaic law because the law of sin took advantage of the Mosaic law and made them sin.
Romans 8:2; the law of the Spirit done away with the law of sin and death.
Paul knew he could sin but this was not an example for a new covenant believer to follow.
We are to mature at some point to lose the struggle with falling into sin and it's desire in the conscience of Christ and not the conscience of sin. If we are constantly struggling to the point of falling into sin we usually don't have much time to accomplish anything for Christ.
This is knocking or belittling any Christian but is an exhortation to rest in Christ for he is to build the house that is not in vain.
It all depends on the consecration and ones devotion to Christ and his power to do his will.
We have more advantages in the better promises of the new covenant but we have to take advantage of them.
Though we are not perfect in knowledge we should be perfect in love which is a good step in the right direction. Jerry kelso