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Is sex wrong?
- Thread starter Flatscan82
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Mailman Dan
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Do you think God changed in some way? You already seem to know what the bible says, so what are you planning to debate?
Dan~~~>doesn't believe any Christians can justify sin
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Waiting for the Verdict
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I wanted to answer this, and also in a broader context answer the original post.full_of_faith said:
Realize, I'm an agnostic right now. Also realize I grew up in evangelicalism, and the latter has obviously influenced my views now that I am in the former.
In an ideal world, premarital sex would not be wrong. Argueably, polygamy and group marriage would be O.K. in such a world, so long as the partners in a relationship loved each other and stayed committed to each other for life, barring abuse, etc. (which would not happen in an ideal world).
But we don't live in an ideal world. In the real world, more often than not, when a guy wants to have premarital sex, he usually is not interested in the love aspect, or is interested in it, but not enough to face the consequences of his actions. AND YES, I REALIZE THERE ARE A BAZILLION EXCEPTIONS TO THIS. I'M SPEAKING IN GENERALITIES. Now, yes, there are many people who do not act in such a reprehensible manner. That is why we should never outlaw premarital sex (which some would like to do.). However, the social consequences of premarital and extramarital sex, when not done in love, whatever illusions the feminist movement might have on this score (and for the record I am pro-feminist), usually hurt the woman while the guy gets to go out and be a $#$#. At least that is what happens in my community, a very working class area. Therefore, for myself, I feel it would be a sin. Personally, I think society as a whole should forswear it, though I know some people would not abuse the privelege. But again, I don't think we should construct social policy on it.
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Just curious as to why you quoted a passage that relates completely to people who deny the truth about God and relates this to homosexual lust - but if you quote a passage to "cover" yourself, don't you bring yourself under the book the passage is in? If it is in keeping with Romans 1 that homosexual sex is wrong, isn't it in keeping with the rest of the Bible. The Greek word Pornia (easy to see a common set of english words that come from this root) is transliterated "fornication" in many places in the New Testament. The idea of "fornication" is specifically sexual activity done in ritual (related to idol worship - see Acts 15 & 21 NASB) or outside marriage. John 8:41 has Jesus saying that we are not "*******s" - "children of pornia" literally - the idea of sexuality outside marriage is also prohibited by Jesus in Matthew 15:19. If we read this like we read Romans...then you have to say that premarital sex is wrong for the same reasons...because they are both in the same book.Brennin said:
Personally I believe the Bible is true and is a Good guide. It is a guide to godliness rather than "goodness" which is what people are generally interested. If you want to be good, find a system you think represents all things good and go for it...if you want to be Godly, then you need to take His instructions. Make sense?
Peace,
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Just curious as to why you quoted a passage that relates completely to people who deny the truth about God and relates this to homosexual lust - but if you quote a passage to "cover" yourself, don't you bring yourself under the book the passage is in? If it is in keeping with Romans 1 that homosexual sex is wrong, isn't it in keeping with the rest of the Bible. The Greek word Pornia (easy to see a common set of english words that come from this root) is transliterated "fornication" in many places in the New Testament. The idea of "fornication" is specifically sexual activity done in ritual (related to idol worship - see Acts 15 & 21 NASB) or outside marriage. John 8:41 has Jesus saying that we are not "*******s" - "children of pornia" literally - the idea of sexuality outside marriage is also prohibited by Jesus in Matthew 15:19. If we read this like we read Romans...then you have to say that premarital sex is wrong for the same reasons...because they are both in the same book.Brennin said:
Personally I believe the Bible is true and is a Good guide. It is a guide to godliness rather than "goodness" which is what people are generally interested. If you want to be good, find a system you think represents all things good and go for it...if you want to be Godly, then you need to take His instructions. Make sense?
Peace,
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hmmm i seem to remember Ned Flanders mentioning a part of the Bible that OKs sex before marriage, in an episode of the Simpsons....
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Sam Gamgee
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spinningtutu
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The problem I have with the actual concept of "pre-marital sex" is that the act of sexuality is meant to marry two people together. In other words, from a linguistic angle, it makes more sense to say that there is sex that is marital (that is, it brings two people closer together) and sex that is non-marital (that is, it actually drives two people further apart).
I think we need to get beyond surface level definitions and cultural ideas on this topic and actually see the deeper issues. I cannot use the outer "appearance" of a Westernized legal concept of so-called "marriage" to condemn or justify anyone's behaviour. Furthermore, since the only thing that really constitutes "marriage" consists of the attitudes, beliefs and vows of two people between each other, I actually don't have any means of condemning or justifying anyone for that matter.
However-
In a general sense- I can say that I believe something has gone terribly wrong and sinful with how sex is expressed in our world. I include in this my own country where all one has to really do is watch an afternoon talk show about paternity testing to find out just how out of control it really is - and how much pain and hurt is really being caused to others. But I also include in this all of the ways that a legalistic view of "wedding" can be the polar opposite of the same problem.
I know that for a lot of people it is just as simple as quoting Bible passages about "marriage" and in a way the whole topic is that simple. However, what makes things complicated is the varient degree of what words mean and how customs and culture interact over all times and in all places. This makes it imperative to look beyond the surface and to look at real issues, like mutual love and devotion, like personal vows of faithfulness - and carrying that out in action, like mutual selflessness... (sexuality running rampant is the opposite, mutual selfishness).
I think we need to get beyond surface level definitions and cultural ideas on this topic and actually see the deeper issues. I cannot use the outer "appearance" of a Westernized legal concept of so-called "marriage" to condemn or justify anyone's behaviour. Furthermore, since the only thing that really constitutes "marriage" consists of the attitudes, beliefs and vows of two people between each other, I actually don't have any means of condemning or justifying anyone for that matter.
However-
In a general sense- I can say that I believe something has gone terribly wrong and sinful with how sex is expressed in our world. I include in this my own country where all one has to really do is watch an afternoon talk show about paternity testing to find out just how out of control it really is - and how much pain and hurt is really being caused to others. But I also include in this all of the ways that a legalistic view of "wedding" can be the polar opposite of the same problem.
I know that for a lot of people it is just as simple as quoting Bible passages about "marriage" and in a way the whole topic is that simple. However, what makes things complicated is the varient degree of what words mean and how customs and culture interact over all times and in all places. This makes it imperative to look beyond the surface and to look at real issues, like mutual love and devotion, like personal vows of faithfulness - and carrying that out in action, like mutual selflessness... (sexuality running rampant is the opposite, mutual selfishness).
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Mailman Dan
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Now that you've got some of the liberal views you were looking for, lets review what the bible says...
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
However, as you already mentioned, you knew what the bible said about fornication.
Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Remeber that Jesus also said, if you look with lust you've already committed adultry in your heart. If your saying you just don't agree with His line of reasoning, you might reconsider your beliefs.
The bible list both homosexual and hetrosexual sin. For some odd reason, some pick to focus on the homosexual one, but the bible is clear on both issues. You can not pick out one sin, they are all very clear. Speaking of hetero or homosexual actions as sin is more than backed up by scripture, and the bible says that those who dwell in EITHER type on sin will end up in the same place.
Besides, there is really no such thing as homophobia. It is a false concept created by the gay community to smear the healthy aversion to a unnatural and disgusting deviancy.
You may consider taking a listen to this..
http://www.livingwaters.com/listenwatch2.shtml
It's called True and False conversion. (What the bible says about those who claim to be Christian but don't believe what Jesus taught) It helped me relize my lack of obeidence to God, by not following the commands I didn't like.
Dan~~~>hopes you find it helpful
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
However, as you already mentioned, you knew what the bible said about fornication.
Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Remeber that Jesus also said, if you look with lust you've already committed adultry in your heart. If your saying you just don't agree with His line of reasoning, you might reconsider your beliefs.
The bible list both homosexual and hetrosexual sin. For some odd reason, some pick to focus on the homosexual one, but the bible is clear on both issues. You can not pick out one sin, they are all very clear. Speaking of hetero or homosexual actions as sin is more than backed up by scripture, and the bible says that those who dwell in EITHER type on sin will end up in the same place.
Besides, there is really no such thing as homophobia. It is a false concept created by the gay community to smear the healthy aversion to a unnatural and disgusting deviancy.
You may consider taking a listen to this..
http://www.livingwaters.com/listenwatch2.shtml
It's called True and False conversion. (What the bible says about those who claim to be Christian but don't believe what Jesus taught) It helped me relize my lack of obeidence to God, by not following the commands I didn't like.
Dan~~~>hopes you find it helpful
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Mailman Dan said:
Any person with a 3rd grade education, and dime store bible can find qoutes easlly. I looking for deeper meaning, something that reqiures people to think and have knowledge about bible history, and are able to compare it to now. Paul also says in the bible that it is better to remain a virgin than to get married. if we all follow paul chirstianty would die out in 20-30 years and the world would be nothing but pagens, how then does God plan for jesus work out then?
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The predominant Christian attitude is that people shouldn't have sex until they're ready to have children. I guess that is what the Christian basis of marriage is. Unfortunately this is taken a step further by saying the purpose of sex is to procreate and have pleasure. While that is a purpose, I feel procreation and pleasure are mutually exclusive things, which sometimes overlap, but often do not. Anyway, most people want at least a legal commitment with another person before they decide to procreate, but this isn't necessary for obtaining pleasure. That is, even if there is a lot of premarital sex, there aren't very many premarital babies, either by birth control, abortion, etc. You don't see very many single women wanting to get pregnant or going to fertility centers to conceive babies with their boyfriends.
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Soul_Searcher
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Hi FlatScan,
"Is sex wrong?"
Not between consenting adults. However, if one has promised fidelity to his/her mate, then he or she must honor that commitment.
"Is sex wrong?"
Not between consenting adults. However, if one has promised fidelity to his/her mate, then he or she must honor that commitment.
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Mailman Dan
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"I looking for deeper meaning, something that reqiures people to think and have knowledge about bible history, and are able to compare it to now." Isn't it more honest you want to believe that it's not true? Take for example some of these responces over what Jesus said.. "I agree; see the definition of adultery." Jesus said if you look with lust you commit adultry of the heart. Matthew 5:28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. "Paul also says in the bible that it is better to remain a virgin than to get married. if we all follow paul chirstianty would die out in 20-30 years and the world would be nothing but pagens, how then does God plan for jesus work out then?" Paul said "and he stated it as a such" it was his suggestion for those in a minstery who wanted to devote their time completely to God, it would be eaiser to not be married, but he did also say there was no law against it. You might try reading the scriptures yourself to get the whole text. Dan~~~>knows no one will justify sin before God (self included)
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