This sounds very much like an unbeliever who does not want to live with her:
According to that Scripture, she only must not divorce him if he is willing to live with her. The converse would also then be true. If he is unwilling to live with her, she may divorce him.
Her husband has demonstrated in many and multiple ways that he despises her and will continue to abuse her. That he is not willing to live with her. "Willing to live with her" does not mean hardly willing to tolerate her, barely short of killing her (on a good day -note his prior physical abuse!). Willing to live with her means a hearty approval to live with her, which he has definitely not demonstrated!
4909 syneudokéō (from 4862 /sýn, "identity with" and 2106 /eudokéō, "seems good") – properly, to consent in a "hearty" (personal) way, in keeping with the close identification involved (note the syn); enthusiastically agree to cooperate with a partner to reach solutions, i.e. to achieve the things both have committed to do together.
Her husband in no fashion fits this description. She is not to divorce him if he fits this description. He does not even remotely try to, so according to the verse, she may divorce him.
A woman in her situation is likely a few months away from a health breakdown. Note she has already indicated it is affecting her health. Immediate separation is called for to protect her safety, followed by divorce if he is not willing to resume living with her in the fashion described under the definition above. She should remain separated at least a year even if he tries to come back sooner claiming repentance/change. It takes at least a year to prove out a change from behavior that has been this bad.
I am embarrassed to do this (my family has been concerned basically since day 1 with us and I have defended him so many times how could I go back to ask them). We did not get the full approval of our families and I'm embarrassed.
Sister, these are the words of the devil. Harsher words against a wife I have seldom heard, and I've heard a lot!!!
Yes, this is a spiritual battle to deter me from Christ. The devil is using his hurt to build a case against me. I pray he will fight against it.
Paul says: There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Paul says we are all equal in the sight of Christ. No heaping of punishment on you due to your gender while absolving himself of the same thing.
Rebuke these devilish words against yourself by locking your husband out of the house asap. Consult a divorce attorney to see if you can/should have your divorce filed at the same time.
He has no right to cudgel you with this. Don't ever let him do this again. Walk away...run outside if you have to. Get a hotel room. Don't permit this abuse upon yourself.
I have told him this a few months ago that I will not any more and and his response has been that I won't do it because I am not ashamed nor does he truly feel I've repented/remorseful. I have told him I don't need to convince him anymore and have been redeemed by my Messiah. He doesn't agree, but I told him Jesus is the Master of our house and I will serve him.
This quote scares me about you, and your safety. He has stolen your sense of righteousness from you to make you feel you bear ANY responsibility for the abuse you suffered. I wish you could see your words from a third party perspective. When he stops treating you worse than dung, you'll stop feeling this way. It's very difficult for a wife in your situation to not experience these feelings at the hand of an abuser.
Look carefully at this verse:
Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Do you see that the root of bitterness springing up troubling you and thereby defiling many is describing some failing that a man (person) has done that has affected the rest of the assembly causing the root of bitterness to defile many?
Many in our evangelical tradition twist that verse to blame the victim for being bitter. No, ma'am. The blame is to the man failing the grace of God and evicting him from the assembly when he fails the grace of God to prevent defiling many with bitterness.
Please stop blaming yourself or looking to yourself as any source of your husbands cruel and severe abuse.
The rest of your post was so hard to read. I'm so, so very sorry that your dignity and value was stomped on so severely. If it was hard to read, I can only imagine how difficult it was to survive all of that.
I think I remember your post, unless there is another poor soul in a similar situation that was on these boards.
Yes, it was me... and when I thought about posting again, I thought about you and your kind words from before. I removed it when a male there stated my spouse was right in his reason to not have kids with me based on what I explained. Thank you again.
Please reach out to marriagebuilders.com for tactical help stepping through this process. The volunteers there have helped women in your position before and will do so under the supervision of a fabulous, experienced Dr. of Psychology who is a Christian. Their help is for free.
Yes, this is definitely a concern. She can be the only one to decide what the safest exit would be. Sometimes the most ideal way is not the safest.
In the past, he would tell me to unlock the door or come to him to talk and promised we would just talk and he won't do anything. When I did he tricked me.
I don't know why he hates me so much. The scripture on Malachi you posted is so true for me. I've read it a few time to try to understand why he is doing this to me (my original post, lying before/after marriage, lying about wanting kids, financial infidelity...) Sometimes, I am praying over my food thanking God and just break down crying, somethings at work out of nowhere, and also at church...just out of nowhere. I see God trying to move his heart and correct him. But his heart is hard. I pray for him and his family to turn to God and Christ. I have asked him why he hates me and he says he loves me but has a problem with my 'purity.' I don't trust his "I don't care" if you leave. That is why I will analyze a way to do this.
This (in blue) relates to me so much and I know Father hears me:
Malachi 2 13-16
And this is the second thing you do:
You cover the altar of the LORD with tears,
With weeping and crying;
So He does not regard the offering anymore,
Nor receive it with goodwill from your hands.
Yet you say, “For what reason?”
Because the LORD has been witness
Between you and the wife of your youth,
With whom you have dealt treacherously;
Yet she is your companion
And your wife by covenant.
But did He not make them one,
Having a remnant of the Spirit?
And why one?
He seeks godly offspring.
And so, we are also not having kids. But the Lord's grace is enough. Amen.
It sounds like from her last post she has a way to take everything with her.
Yes, I can afford movers/am saving up for them when the time is right.
The lease is in my name (my income supported our entire marriage) but I may be able to leave sooner than later since it will be ending in a couple of months. I won't divorce him unless for adultery, but will separate. As you said, I think a year will be good and I won't go back unless I see true repentance and I trust God will show me if there is fruit. I need a long time to heal. I need to find myself. I forgave him fully and wholeheartedly once I got saved but as you and others said, it will be on him to show true repentance or we remain separated (unless he decides to move on with other women). Thank You and Everyone who provided me feedback on his responsibility/accountability if he decides to not want to reconcile.
@twobecomeone do you have a way to get off the lease, or is the house jointly owned by you? If it is jointly owned, you may have to keep up the payments through the divorce process in order to protect your equity in it. Your divorce attorney will have some advice regarding that.
Yes, this is a spiritual battle to deter me from Christ. The devil is using his hurt to build a case against me. I pray he will fight against it.
I have told him this a few months ago that I will not any more and and his response has been that I won't do it because I am not ashamed nor does he truly feel I've repented/remorseful. I have told him I don't need to convince him anymore and have been redeemed by my Messiah. He doesn't agree, but I told him Jesus is the Master of our house and I will serve him.
Yes, it was me... and when I thought about posting again, I thought about you and your kind words from before. I removed it when a male there stated my spouse was right in his reason to not have kids with me based on what I explained. Thank you again.
I can't speak for the dynamics in your family, but I'd be REALLY upset if my sister needed my help but was too embarrassed to ask. It would make me wonder what kind of a jerk I was acting like for her to think that.
Now every family is different, and I don't want to heap burdens on you if this really would be a problem - goodness knows you don't need anymore of those right now!
When I had to disclose to my family what was actually happening in my marriage they were shocked and rallied around me thicker than concrete sludge. They have a rare-divorce theology but they put that to the side to help support me in my situation, even though they could see it didn't check off all of their boxes. They were rock stars, and I'm thankful I let them be. That's their job.
All of this just to say your perspective about them might be not calibrated right with all of the gas lighting you suffered. It will take you a while to figure out your authentic truth.
In the past, he would tell me to unlock the door or come to him to talk and promised we would just talk and he won't do anything. When I did he tricked me.
I don't know why he hates me so much.
And so, we are also not having kids. But the Lord's grace is enough. Amen.
Great timing. This actually could work out very well for you. Your lease probably has a 30 day notice (some have 60 or 90 days, so check). The day you give them notice that you won't renew you could have the movers show up and move you out. You'll lose a month (or a few months) of rent if your husband won't pay the rent, in order to keep your credit rating OK, but that is a small price if you can do it. If you let on that you are worried about this he surely won't pay it, so don't do that.The lease is in my name (my income supported our entire marriage) but I may be able to leave sooner than later since it will be ending in a couple of months.
I won't divorce him unless for adultery, but will separate.
Just because you file/finalize divorce doesn't mean you will remarry. A formal divorce will protect you financially and legally from any debts he would run up. As long as you haven't filed you might be liable for EVERYTHING he does. It is not a stretch to imagine him purposefully trying to ruin your future by running up debt, ruining your credit and stealing your savings by having creditors go after them to satisfy his debts.
[/quote][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]Honestly he seems like a text book psychopath to me. Psychopaths don't have empathy for others and use the fact that others have empathy for him to manipulate them. He knows you feel empathy and introspection so he's just playing games with you. You need to cut off **EVERYTHING** you feel with the lying liar that he is and stop feeling empathy for him. That's the only way you can survive his abuse.
Oh, Twobecomeone, this is a merciful situation. It seems grievous to you now, but imagine trying to parent with an evil manipulator like your husband. He would use the child to destroy you. He would alienate the child from you, and then you would feel grief 100x what you feel now.
Great timing. This actually could work out very well for you. Your lease probably has a 30 day notice (some have 60 or 90 days, so check). The day you give them notice that you won't renew you could have the movers show up and move you out. You'll lose a month (or a few months) of rent if your husband won't pay the rent, in order to keep your credit rating OK, but that is a small price if you can do it. If you let on that you are worried about this he surely won't pay it, so don't do that.
Abusive psychopaths can sense a change in your demeanor and then can become even more dangerous so be careful.
Thank you, I plan to follow this and am getting myself ready for this process. He has been difficult with his portion of the bills (ex. I’ll get it to you when I get it to you) and won’t agree to a set date to pay and split all our bills. So I may be on my own for paying whatever fees I occur since it’s in my name. I will discuss with them if I can do a payment plan as that will be my only way to avoid my credit being messed up. Also to my knowledge, there isn’t anything that’s scripted that says I can divorce for this, but separation can occur. Can you explain more feedback why this would be justifiable especially since no adultery has occurred. Thank you again.
Please reconsider this. Just because you file/finalize divorce doesn't mean you will remarry. A formal divorce will protect you financially and legally from any debts he would run up. As long as you haven't filed you might be liable for EVERYTHING he does. It is not a stretch to imagine him purposefully trying to ruin your future by running up debt, ruining your credit and stealing your savings by having creditors go after them to satisfy his debts.
Your theology about divorce is likely more concerned about remarriage than about divorce. Please move forward with the divorce. You can refrain from remarrying if your conscience requires but do get divorced.
Thank you, I plan to follow this and am getting myself ready for this process. He has been difficult with his portion of the bills (ex. I’ll get it to you when I get it to you) and won’t agree to a set date to pay and split all our bills.
Also to my knowledge, there isn’t anything that’s scripted that says I can divorce for this, but separation can occur. Can you explain more feedback why this would be justifiable especially since no adultery has occurred. Thank you again.
With respect to splitting your bills, do you ordinarily split your bills and that's what he's not agreeing to do? Or does he know you are planning to separate?
First of all, Scripture does not require a marriage license from the State in order to be married. I know people from conservative, fundamentalist backgrounds who were married by the church but did not proceed to get the state license as a matter of conscience. To my conscience, what you do in the legal system with your extra-Biblical state marriage license to protect yourself from aggression by a psychopath has nothing to do with Scripture. Whether you still consider yourself married in your conscience after you see to cancelling out your extra- Biblical license (and protecting yourself legally) is up to you. But you don't need a valid state license in order to think that you are married, per Scripture.
Secondly, according to the Scripture cited earlier in your thread, you may NOT divorce your husband if he is pleased to live with you. So why would Scripture say that unless you COULD divorce your husband if he is not pleased to live with you? So the abandonment by your husband (whether physically or emotionally via abuse) is a widely recognized Biblical reason for a divorce.
So, the exception for adultery, found in Matthew, is only the first of two available remedies for believers. The second remedy is for a believing person whose spouse is not pleased to dwell with him/her.
Is there any reason why you think the passage in 1 Cor 7 is unclear with respect to a divorce?
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
Is there anything about this passage that gives you doubt about your freedom to escape the bondage of an unbelieving husband who is not pleased to dwell with you?
There are things you can do when you separate to create financial distance from your spouse...and it is crucial that you do so. When I went through a divorce with my ex years and years ago - the very first thing I did once I had her leave the house was to go to the bank and start the process rolling.
I can't remember exactly what the steps were - as it's been over 20 years since. My goal was to have myself removed from our joint bank account - but I remember there being some issues with that and it would have required me closing the account (and I think I wasn't prepared to do that at the moment - I just wanted the division - I didn't want to leave her high and dry). So I think I let the joint account be - withdrew half of what was in there - then opened an account under my own name and worked with that one going forward.
Since I was going for divorce - I can't speak authoritatively on the ways of protecting yourself if you're only separating. But unless you look into it and follow through - you'll potentially be put into a very bad spot not of your own making.
TBH though - and this is a sidetrack - if I were you I'd just get a divorce. People get so wrapped up on terms. What is the effective difference between how you're envisioning "separation" and what "divorce" is? The potential to remarry? Is that really the crux of it? You can manage that as your heart sees fit - and take advantage of the legal protections that divorce affords. Then let your conscience and beliefs be your guide about how you handle the whole remarriage issue.
With respect to splitting your bills, do you ordinarily split your bills and that's what he's not agreeing to do? Or does he know you are planning to separate?
First of all, Scripture does not require a marriage license from the State in order to be married. I know people from conservative, fundamentalist backgrounds who were married by the church but did not proceed to get the state license as a matter of conscience. To my conscience, what you do in the legal system with your extra-Biblical state marriage license to protect yourself from aggression by a psychopath has nothing to do with Scripture. Whether you still consider yourself married in your conscience after you see to cancelling out your extra- Biblical license (and protecting yourself legally) is up to you. But you don't need a valid state license in order to think that you are married, per Scripture.
Secondly, according to the Scripture cited earlier in your thread, you may NOT divorce your husband if he is pleased to live with you. So why would Scripture say that unless you COULD divorce your husband if he is not pleased to live with you? So the abandonment by your husband (whether physically or emotionally via abuse) is a widely recognized Biblical reason for a divorce.
So, the exception for adultery, found in Matthew, is only the first of two available remedies for believers. The second remedy is for a believing person whose spouse is not pleased to dwell with him/her.
Is there any reason why you think the passage in 1 Cor 7 is unclear with respect to a divorce?
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
Is there anything about this passage that gives you doubt about your freedom to escape the bondage of an unbelieving husband who is not pleased to dwell with you?
I guess for me it's because how other Pastors have described it is if he does not want to "physically" leave. Which in this case he does not (regardless of his motive to stay). I also don't want to add more sin on top of sin since God hates divorce. Thank you.
Dear sister, God does NOT hate divorce; he hates the TREACHERY that causes divorce. The Lord himself divorced Israel due to her treachery.
What the Lord hates in your situation is how your husband is treating his daughter. Would it please an earthly father to keep his daughter in bondage to a cruel abuser like your husband?
Matt 7:9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
I was paralyzed in the same place you are for many years. Knowing that I needed to end my marriage but not daring to because of what I understood the pastors to be teaching. I didn't dare to read the actual words in the Bible without the sacrificial living filter I had...the idea that I was responsible to be a beautiful example of a Christian to win my abuser to Christ. So I would read over the obvious in the Bible without reading it; assuming "yeah, it doesn't really mean that".
One day when I was just desperate to have some solution for the situation I was praying and praying for the Lord to give me wisdom (just like I had 1,000's of times before) except this time I was more desperate and more demanding of the Lord's attention and help. I was at my end. The Lord gave me the 2nd half of Isaiah 28:
Now some will say the verse doesn't really talk about marriage, but it talked DIRECTLY to my exact situation. When I read the words "you have made a covenant with death" I was struck to attention because there was NO better way to describe a marriage to an abuser. This passage allowed me to realize all this "marriage covenants cannot be broken" theology was nonsense. I felt the command of the Lord to take a stick (staff) and beat it out. To take proactive measures to end my suffering under abuse.
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
20For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
21For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
22Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.
23Give ye ear, and hear my voice; hearken, and hear my speech.
24Doth the plowman plow all day to sow? doth he open and break the clods of his ground?
25When he hath made plain the face thereof, doth he not cast abroad the fitches, and scatter the cummin, and cast in the principal wheat and the appointed barley and the rie in their place?
26For his God doth instruct him to discretion, and doth teach him.
27For the fitches are not threshed with a threshing instrument, neither is a cart wheel turned about upon the cummin; but the fitches are beaten out with a staff, and the cummin with a rod.
28Bread corn is bruised; because he will not ever be threshing it, nor break it with the wheel of his cart, nor bruise it with his horsemen.
29This also cometh forth from the LORD of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working.
Now, in my background, separating without adultery or the unbeliever physically leaving would have not incurred the blessing of the church, and might even incur church discipline for doing so. Sister, I chose to fear man more than God and continue in this abusive situation because I was AFRAID of what some pastors say. After about a year of this my body suffered irreparable damage from the stress. I will never have my health back the way it was before. When I realized that not stepping up boldly to beat out this covenant of death me was costing my life, and that my kids were better off with a mom who has been disfellowshipped than a mom in a grave, I finally dared to fear God more than man and with ever so timidly started inching toward what I should have done boldly a LONG time ago.
I spent over a year afterwards studying Scriptures to understand how the Lord's direction to me (to beat out the covenant of death with a stick) jives with the rest of the Scriptures because it seemed initially not to. I won't go into all of the theology here, but I started allowing myself to read and believe what the words REALLY say, and that was quite an eye opener.
Sister, please fear God more than what some pastors say, before it is too late. Please!!!!
God wants husbands to love their wives not spew hatred towards them.I guess for me it's because how other Pastors have described it is if he does not want to "physically" leave. Which in this case he does not (regardless of his motive to stay). I also don't want to add more sin on top of sin since God hates divorce. Thank you.
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