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I'm not adding to anything and I'm quoting scripture in context. I don't select single, unrelated verses from different biblical "books", out-of-context, as you do, to try to prove a predetermined doctrinal point. That is deception! There are plenty of warnings in the Bible of false teachers who try to distort God's word.
Either the Church is inerrant or it isn't. If the inerrancy was passed down by apostolic succession, there would not be splits.
No, he didn't. The sale of indulgences was NEVER Catholic doctrine. You need to do more research.
In the last 75 years, they have been working furiously to re-write history.Really? So who was responsible for instituting the sale of indulgences if it wasn't the Catholic Church?
Indulgences were done by the Church, but you say it wasn't doctrine. OK. People were taught and pushed into giving money in untruthful ways. What good is doctrine if the Church teaches falsities? What is the difference between the doctrine a church holds and what it teaches? How can a church be inerrant in doctrine but teach what is false and promote something for profit?No, he didn't. The sale of indulgences was NEVER Catholic doctrine. You need to do more research.
That was a different thread in GT. I used to not take that idea seriously but given that the current Pope promotes false teachings that border on blasphemy, I don't know.Isn't it in Revelation ?
(not by Yhwh though, ever)
That border was crossed a long, long time ago. (it is heavily censored though)That was a different thread in GT. I used to not take that idea seriously but given that the current Pope promotes false teachings that border on blasphemy, I don't know.
There you go, start flinging some of that mud reserved for the evil Protestants and send it to the evil Greeks and Easterns for also abandoning the true Church. Oh, but they say the same thing to you. How do I know which one to follow?Of course there will be people who abandon the Church. Jesus said that he would divide family members from each other, let alone random followers of the Church.
As you noted, my thread is about the highest authority/source of truth we have on earth.The OP is about whether the Word of God is the ultimate authority, and whether we should regard it as our rule an law book.
Of course many Catholics look to the Church for guidance and interpretation, and the bible as a supplement to their spiritual path and life - not something that needs us to become lifelong students of.
Good post; how can we put the word of man above the Word of God?The authority of the scriptures is testified by everyone who has heard the gospel of salvation so as to be saved. We can all say along with Jesus to the Father, "Your Word is Truth" (Jn.17:17). John 6:29 This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indulgence
Indulgence
In the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, an indulgence is "a way to reduce the amount of punishment one has to undergo for sins"[1] which may reduce either or both of the penancerequired after a sin has been forgiven, or after death, the temporal punishment, (not "time," as Purgatory like Heaven and Hell is said to exist "outside of time,") in the state or process of purification called Purgatory.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church describes an indulgence as "a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints".[2]
The recipient of an indulgence must perform an action to receive it. This is most often the saying (once, or many times) of a specified prayer, but may also include the visiting of a particular place, or the performance of specific good works.
Sacred inscription on theArchbasilica of St. John Lateran in Rome:Indulgentia plenaria perpetua quotidiana toties quoties pro vivis et defunctis (English trans: "Perpetual everyday plenary indulgence on every occasion for the living and the dead")
Indulgences were introduced to allow for the remission of the severe penances of the early Church and granted at the intercession of Christians awaiting martyrdom or at least imprisoned for the faith.[3] They draw on the Treasury of Merit accumulated by Christ's superabundantly meritorious sacrifice on the cross and the virtues and penances of the saints.[4] They are granted for specific good works and prayers[4] in proportion to the devotion with which those good works are performed or prayers recited.[5]
By the late Middle Ages, the abuse of indulgences, mainly through commercialization, had become a serious problem which the Church recognized but was unable to restrain effectively. Indulgences were from the beginning of the Protestant Reformation a target of attacks byMartin Luther and all other Protestant theologians. Eventually the Catholic Counter-Reformationcurbed the excesses, but indulgences continue to play a role in modern Catholic religious life. Reforms in the 20th century largely abolished the quantification of indulgences, which had been expressed in terms of days or years. These days or years were meant to represent the equivalent of time spent in penance, although it was widely taken to mean time spent in Purgatory. The reforms also greatly reduced the number of indulgences granted for visiting particular churches and other locations.
I am curious as to where even the IDEA of indulgences came from.....cuz it certainly isn't scriptural.
and the virtues and penances of the saints.
You are adding to scripture.
Did you miss this:
John 15:10
If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.
Romans 11
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
2 Peter 2:20
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
There you go, start flinging some of that mud reserved for the evil Protestants and send it to the evil Greeks and Easterns for also abandoning the true Church. Oh, but they say the same thing to you. How do I know which one to follow?
I know, I will follow you because you say you are the true church.
Like nobody else says that. Can you prove that yours is better?
My last question, why would the Catholic Church not encourage the study of God's recorded word? I know it was that way in the past when the education levels were lower, but today, I can't see a reason for that attitude.
I don't see how you miss the emphasis in this section on love! Just the first sentence is enough to explain the main subject. Jesus is telling his disciples that he and they are one, that he loves them, and considers them friends, not servants. The fact that you pull one single "if" sentence out of this shows your obvious bias against the message.
And where in scripture is such activity supported? And when did it start because I doubt the "always" part of your statement.Indulgences have always been part of Christianity.
The Orthodox have no claim to it?After all, the bible is a Catholic book!
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