Is science irrational?

[HitchSlap]

Would you agree that God can give certainty of His existence to those who ask for it?



The Holy Spirit does discern perfect truth and as true Christians who have accepted Jesus as Lord over our lives, we have the Holy Spirit within us.

Are you attempting to present a more perfect truth than Jesus can provide through what you're saying and expecting me to believe you?

Codswallop.

Name one fact the "Holy Spirit" has taught you, that I, as an unbeliever, couldn't come to know by independent means.

 

[Chriliman]

Codswallop.

Name one fact the "Holy Spirit" has taught you, that I, as an unbeliever, couldn't come to know by independent means.

That Jesus is Lord.

 

[bhsmte]

Would you agree that God can give certainty of His existence to those who ask for it?



The Holy Spirit does discern perfect truth and as true Christians who have accepted Jesus as Lord over our lives, we have the Holy Spirit within us.

Are you attempting to present a more perfect truth than Jesus can provide through what you're saying and expecting me to believe you?

I believe he already addressed the; can God give certainty question.

I believe it was something like, since a person's perception of God can be fallible (wrong), there can be no certainty, because you can't be certain your fallibility, has not given you wrong answers.

 

[sifer]

If science doesn't question everything indefinitely, where should it stop questioning or continuing to observe? When we made fire? Invented the wheel? It is only by continued questioning of what we know can we begin to understand what we don't know. Progress of any sort would stop.

 

[HitchSlap]

That Jesus is Lord.

Did you post this before you had a chance state the evidence for this claim?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I think the problem is that if you actually made sense of what I'm saying you would have to accept the very reasonable possibility that God exists, therefore, you're actively choosing to not make sense of the things I'm saying that threaten your lack of belief in God.

Yeah, that must be it. It couldn't be that your posts are barely intelligible half the time...

 

[DogmaHunter]

So let me ask you a simple question; do you believe your belief in God could be fallible and you are wrong about your belief? Yes, or no please.

Yes, what I currently believe about God is not 100% accurate because my beliefs are fallible, which is why I rely on Him for correction not myself.

My faith in God makes up for my fallible beliefs.

So either way, god exists.
"I'm correct, even if I'm wrong".

Yep.

And the circle goes round and round and round.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

"You know how I know it is true? BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT IS TRUE!!!"

I couldn't say such a thing and feel honest doing so. However, I grew up in a family of Christians. I grew up in the church. Most of my close relatives are still in the church. This is how they think. I simply can't do it, but they don't see any problem with a circular argument so tight that it nearly produces a singularity.

This is in line what he has said previously (emphasis added):

I think my beliefs are formed based on what I want to be true.

My choices affect my reality, which may affect what I want and in turn affecting my beliefs.

I want to believe God is the truth, therefore God is true to me.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

I think that "completely irrational" would be believing in stuff randomly, completely randomly.

 

[expos4ever]

Would you agree that God can give certainty of His existence to those who ask for it?

No, I do not agree with this.

The Holy Spirit does discern perfect truth and as true Christians who have accepted Jesus as Lord over our lives, we have the Holy Spirit within us.

I believe this, but I would never claim I am certain of it. Nor would I ever imagine that any thought that I have is beyond the possibility of error simply because I believe I have the Spirit dwelling in me.

Are you attempting to present a more perfect truth than Jesus can provide through what you're saying and expecting me to believe you?

It seems like you are asking me "Do you, expos4ever, know better than Jesus". Well that begs the question at issue - it presumes that Jesus can give you certain knowledge of the truth. I think that is very unlikely for a number of reasons.

 

[KCfromNC]

Because the thought of someone denying God and accepting their own desires and being punished eternally for doing so is a scary thought, I wouldn't want that for anyone. Would you?

I wish people didn't fear imaginary things, yes.

 

[Chriliman]

No, I do not agree with this.

I believe He can give certainty of his existence. This certainty may only last for awhile until certain things in life effect us and cause us to doubt again. However, having a close relationship with God, I can say I do not doubt His existence at all. What I do doubt, is whether I'm doing the right thing that pleases Him. This is why I pray constantly and ask for guidance.

I believe this, but I would never claim I am certain of it. Nor would I ever imagine that any thought that I have is beyond the possibility of error simply because I believe I have the Spirit dwelling in me.

I hope and pray God will give you certainty of this truth.

God bless!

 

[expos4ever]

I hope and pray God will give you certainty of this truth.God bless!

I would be happy to have certainty. But 50 + years of living and 30 + of them as a Christian have shown me the dangerous path of believing in absolute certainty. Here is a quote that I believe is particularly relevant. It is made by a man who contemplates the holocaust:

It's said that science will dehumanize people and turn them into numbers. That's false, tragically false. Look for yourself. This is the concentration camp and crematorium at Auschwitz. This is where people were turned into numbers. Into this pond were flushed the ashes of some four million people. And that was not done by gas. It was done by arrogance, it was done by dogma, it was done by ignorance. When people believe that they have absolute knowledge, with no test in reality, this is how they behave. This is what men do when they aspire to the knowledge of gods.

Science is a very human form of knowledge. We are always at the brink of the known; we always feel forward for what is to be hoped. Every judgment in science stands on the edge of error and is personal. Science is a tribute to what we can know although we are fallible. In the end, the words were said by Oliver Cromwell: "I beseech you in the bowels of Christ: Think it possible you may be mistaken."

 

[Chriliman]

I would be happy to have certainty. But 50 + years of living and 30 + of them as a Christian have shown me the dangerous path of believing in absolute certainty. Here is a quote that I believe is particularly relevant. It is made by a man who contemplates the holocaust:

It's said that science will dehumanize people and turn them into numbers. That's false, tragically false. Look for yourself. This is the concentration camp and crematorium at Auschwitz. This is where people were turned into numbers. Into this pond were flushed the ashes of some four million people. And that was not done by gas. It was done by arrogance, it was done by dogma, it was done by ignorance. When people believe that they have absolute knowledge, with no test in reality, this is how they behave. This is what men do when they aspire to the knowledge of gods.

Science is a very human form of knowledge. We are always at the brink of the known; we always feel forward for what is to be hoped. Every judgment in science stands on the edge of error and is personal. Science is a tribute to what we can know although we are fallible. In the end, the words were said by Oliver Cromwell: "I beseech you in the bowels of Christ: Think it possible you may be mistaken."

Interesting quote. I sure hope you don't think I'm claiming I have absolute knowledge. I am not claiming that, but I am claiming that God has absolute knowledge and that I am directly connected to him through Jesus Christ. He gives me knowledge as He pleases. However, if I doubt that He exists, then this has a negative effect on our relationship.

I did have that kind of doubt before, which is what helped me realize the truth that I am saved and that God is my father and that He desires to have a relationship with me.

Doubt and honest questioning are definitely good for spiritual growth. God wants all our heart, mind and soul, not just parts of us.

 

[HitchSlap]

Interesting quote. I sure hope you don't think I'm claiming I have absolute knowledge. I am not claiming that, but I am claiming that God has absolute knowledge and that I am directly connected to him through Jesus Christ. He gives me knowledge as He pleases. However, if I doubt that He exists, then this has a negative effect on our relationship.

I did have that kind of doubt before, which is what helped me realize the truth that I am saved and that God is my father and that He desires to have a relationship with me.

Doubt and honest questioning are definitely good for spiritual growth. God wants all our heart, mind and soul, not just parts of us.

If you repeat "I know I'm right. I know I'm right. I know I'm right." a thousand times, eventually you'll start to believe it. So rather than really evaluate reasons for your doubt, you just double down.

 

[Chriliman]

If you repeat "I know I'm right. I know I'm right. I know I'm right." a thousand times, eventually you'll start to believe it. So rather than really evaluate reasons for your doubt, you just double down.

My conclusion is that it's very difficult to reason with someone who has no doubt that God is false.

As I said, doubt is very important in finding truth so if you have no doubt that God is false, then it's likely you're not really thinking about the possibility of God.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

My conclusion is that it's very difficult to reason with someone who has no doubt that God is false.

As I said, doubt is very important in finding truth so if you have no doubt that God is false, then it's likely you're not really thinking about the possibility of God.

Your conclusion is incorrect. Who here has said they have no doubt that no god exists?

 

[HitchSlap]

My conclusion is that it's very difficult to reason with someone who has no doubt that God is false.

As I said, doubt is very important in finding truth so if you have no doubt that God is false, then it's likely you're not really thinking about the possibility of God.

For over thirty years of my life I was a "True Christian." At this point in my life, I see only anecdotal evidence for it's existence.

 

[bhsmte]

I believe He can give certainty of his existence. This certainty may only last for awhile until certain things in life effect us and cause us to doubt again. However, having a close relationship with God, I can say I do not doubt His existence at all. What I do doubt, is whether I'm doing the right thing that pleases Him. This is why I pray constantly and ask for guidance.



I hope and pray God will give you certainty of this truth.

God bless!

How can God give certainty, if you already admitted, your perception of this God, can be fallible.

Relying on something that is fallible, can never give you certainty, because of this fallibility.

 

[bhsmte]

My conclusion is that it's very difficult to reason with someone who has no doubt that God is false.

As I said, doubt is very important in finding truth so if you have no doubt that God is false, then it's likely you're not really thinking about the possibility of God.

Who said there is no doubt that God does not exist?