Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Depends if you view beliefs to be the same as faith.
My beliefs are what I accept as true.
My faith is trusting in something I cannot see with my eyes.
You can't see truth with your eyes but you can trust that things are true. IMO, this is what it means to have faith in truth.
It would be best, if you first understood what you are saying.
In one post you state, your belief in God makes up for your belief in God being fallible.
In another post you state, your belief doesn't factor into it.
You do tend to contradict yourself quite a bit, as you scramble to justify your statements, so I am not surprised.
Would it also be best if you actually quoted what I said? My faith in God makes up for my fallible beliefs. Remember I define faith differently than I define belief.
God exists even if I don't believe in Him.
Or, from your perspective, God most likely does not exist even if I believe in Him. Placing your world view on a "most likely" seems shakey at best. I prefer to be certain that my beliefs are based in truth.
I think the problem is that if you actually made sense of what I'm saying you would have to accept the very reasonable possibility that God exists, therefore, you're actively choosing to not make sense of anything I'm saying.
No, what you stated wasn't clear and it made zero logical sense.
This has been pointed out to you by many on these boards over a long period of time, but I know it is difficult for you to acknowledge.
Even though he continually avoids the question when I ask it, I'm still wondering if he cares that he's almost assuredly doing more harm than good.
I don't expect I'll ever get a straight answer though...
I am having trouble understanding you although I concede I have not had the time to read each of your posts carefully.Chriliman said:My faith in God makes up for my fallible beliefs. Remember I define faith differently than I define belief.
Well summarized. His arguments amount to nothing less than special pleading and presuppositional assumptions.I am having trouble understanding you although I concede I have not had the time to read each of your posts carefully.
It's perfectly reasonable to concede that your "beliefs" are fallible.
I think what bothers everyone is that you are implying that your "faith" is something other than simply another set of beliefs with all the necessary uncertainty associated therewith. I think we all understand faith entails believing something in the absence of evidence, or with only very limited evidence. But, and correct me if I am wrong, you appear to think that subsuming what you believe about God under the term "faith" places that knowledge in a kind of special category where it is no longer subject to being disputed as uncertain. It appears like you are trying to get a 'free pass' to legitimize a set of beliefs simply by placing those beliefs in the category you call "faith".
Would it also be best if you actually quoted what I said? My faith in God makes up for my fallible beliefs.
God exists even if I don't believe in Him.
Placing your world view on a "most likely" seems shakey at best.
I prefer to be certain that my beliefs are based in truth.
I think the problem is that if you actually made sense of what I'm saying you would have to accept the very reasonable possibility that God exists, therefore, you're actively choosing to not make sense of the things I'm saying that threaten your lack of belief in God.
I am having trouble understanding you although I concede I have not had the time to read each of your posts carefully.
It's perfectly reasonable to concede that your "beliefs" are fallible.
I think what bothers everyone is that you are implying that your "faith" is something other than simply another set of beliefs with all the necessary uncertainty associated therewith.
I think we all understand faith entails believing something in the absence of evidence, or with only very limited evidence. But, and correct me if I am wrong, you appear to think that subsuming what you believe about God under the term "faith" places that knowledge in a kind of special category where it is no longer subject to being disputed as uncertain. It appears like you are trying to get a 'free pass' to legitimize a set of beliefs simply by placing those beliefs in the category you call "faith".
I concede that what you've described can define my faith or anyone's faith. Which to me, shows that it's reasonable to have faith in something like God without having objective evidence of God.
It depends where you believe faith comes from. Do you believe your faith in God comes from yourself or does God give you faith?
If God gives us faith, which I believe He does, then it is in a special category that is no longer subject to being disputed as uncertain by anyone other than yourself.
If what I'm saying does not belong in a philosophy forum, then let the moderators close it. I'm fine with that. It won't cause me to stop expressing my beliefs.
If what I'm saying does not belong in a philosophy forum, then let the moderators close it. I'm fine with that. It won't cause me to stop expressing my beliefs.
I think you are effectively "cheating", although I would not assume you are aware you are doing so.I concede that what you've described can define my faith or anyone's faith. Which to me, shows that it's reasonable to have faith in something like God without having objective evidence of God.
I believe it comes from God.It depends where you believe faith comes from. Do you believe your faith in God comes from yourself or does God give you faith?
Let's say we agree with the hypothesis that God "injects perfect knowledge of the truth into us". This is something we believe, but we cannot be sure of it. Do you see what I mean? I think you are trying to do an end-run against uncertainty, but I think this cannot succeed.If God gives us faith, which I believe He does, then it is in a special category that is no longer subject to being disputed as uncertain by anyone other than yourself.
I think you are effectively "cheating", although I would not assume you are aware you are doing so.
It's fine to have faith, but to thereby ascribe certainty to the things you accept by faith seems both irrational and dangerous. Why not simply do what I do: accept certain things on faith and live with the necessary uncertainty. I suspect you will cite that passage that "faith is being certain of things unseen". We can talk about that, if you like.
I believe it comes from God.
Let's say we agree with the hypothesis that God "injects perfect knowledge of the truth into us". This is something we believe, but we cannot be sure of it. Do you see what I mean? I think you are trying to do an end-run against uncertainty, but I think this cannot succeed.
Your last paragraph, is a telltale sign, he has some inner turmoil with his beliefs, likely from cognitive dissonance and he is scrambling to create certainty in his beliefs.
Anyone he talks about logic and truth as much as he, is trying to convince himself, he uses the former and he has a firm grasp on the latter.
"You know how I know it is true? BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT IS TRUE!!!"
I couldn't say such a thing and feel honest doing so. However, I grew up in a family of Christians. I grew up in the church. Most of my close relatives are still in the church. This is how they think. I simply can't do it, but they don't see any problem with a circular argument so tight that it nearly produces a singularity.
To be fair, not all professing Christians would make such an argument; I wouldn't, for example.This is how they think. I simply can't do it, but they don't see any problem with a circular argument so tight that it nearly produces a singularity.
To be fair, not all professing Christians would make such an argument; I wouldn't, for example.
I think you are effectively "cheating", although I would not assume you are aware you are doing so.
It's fine to have faith, but to thereby ascribe certainty to the things you accept by faith seems both irrational and dangerous. Why not simply do what I do: accept certain things on faith and live with the necessary uncertainty. I suspect you will cite that passage that "faith is being certain of things unseen". We can talk about that, if you like.
Let's say we agree with the hypothesis that God "injects perfect knowledge of the truth into us". This is something we believe, but we cannot be sure of it. Do you see what I mean? I think you are trying to do an end-run against uncertainty, but I think this cannot succeed.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?