Is Satan really this powerful??

[Katydid]

Satan is a mythological creature imported by the Jews from Zoroastrainism, and into Christianity from dualist heresies like Gnosticism. He only exists in the mind of the literalist and the vaguely psychotic.

Can you explain the book of Job in context with this statement.

 

[LukeBritt]

Here come the inerrancy battles....

to Katydid,
What part of Germany do you live in? There is a network of churches call the International Baptist Convention (I think) and they have many churches planted across western Europe. Maybe you could look into that. I think they have child care available.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Satan is powerful.

Satan is an angelic majesty who is not to be reviled, but he is still a created being and thus is totally under God's control and authority. Therefore, satan rules by God's permission. The continuation of Satan's rulership in this world is only because God, for His own reasons, is withholding Satan's ultimate doom (Revelation 20:10). God thus is permitting or allowing Satan to ply his trade temporarily.

Jesus call Satan the "ruler of this world" (John 12:31; John 14:30; and John 16:11)

A. Biblical References relating to Satan.
Ezekiel 28:13-19: Satan's Origin
Genesis 3:1-6: Satan's First Temptation
Isaiah 14: Satan's Fall From Heaven
Job 1:6-13: Many Facts About Satan's Limitations
Matthew 4:1-10: Satan Tempts Jesus Christ
Revelation 20:1-3, 10: Satan's Eternal Punishment

B. Satan discusses Job with God. See Job 1:6-13
1) Satan is accountable to God. 1:6
2) His thoughts are open to God. 1:7
3) Satan can only be at one place at a time. 1:6,7
4) Satan cannot see into our minds or foretell the future. 1:9-11
5) Because Satan can do nothing without God's permission, God's people can overcome his attacks through God's power. 1:12
6) God always puts limits on what Satan can do. 1:12, and 2:6
7) Satan is real and active on earth. 1:7

Many people think that believing in God protects them from trouble, so when calamity comes, they question God's goodness and justice. But the message of Job is that you should not give up on God just because bad things happen. Faith in God does not guarantee personal prosperity, and lack of faith does not guarantee troubles in this life. If this were so, people would believe in God simply to get rich. God is capable of rescuing us from suffering, but He may also allow suffering to come for reasons we cannot understand. Job shows here a perspective broader than his own personal comfort. If we always know why we suffer, our faith would have no room to grow.
1 Peter 5:8-10 -- Satan is our great enemy.

The warfare the Bible talks about is the war of the wills. Yes, it is true that God have the ability to physically heal and the evil angels have the ability to heal and make one physically sick.

Revelation 20:1-3,10
Satan's power is not eternal--he will meet his doom. He began his evil work in mankind at the beginning, (in Genesis 3:1-6 it is recorded), and continues it today, but he will be judged when he is thrown into the Lake of Fire. Satan was released from the bottomless pit (20:7), but he will never be released from the Lake of Fire. He will never be a threat to anyone again.

2 Timothy 2:22 says, "Run from anything that gives you the evil thoughts young men often have, but stay close to anything that makes you want to do right. Have faith and love, and enjoy the companionship of those who love the Lord and have pure hearts."

Running away is sometimes considered cowardly. But wise people realize that removing oneself physically from temptation is often prudent. Perhaps you experience a recurring temptation that is difficult to resist. Remove yourself physically from the situation. Knowing when to run is as important in spiritual battle as knowing when and how to fight.

James 1:12 says, "Happy is the man who doesn't give in and do wrong when he is tempted, for afterwards he will get as his reward the crown of life that God has promised those who love Him."

Can Satan attack without God’s permission?
NKJ, Luke 22:31-32 - And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”

NKJ, Job 1: 12 - And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

NKJ, Job 2:6 - And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your hand, but spare his life.”

 

[homewardbound]

Satan is a mythological creature imported by the Jews from Zoroastrainism, and into Christianity from dualist heresies like Gnosticism. He only exists in the mind of the literalist and the vaguely psychotic.

So no, it wasn't Satan. And stuff happens. Live with it.

Gee, do you think you could be a bit more constructive? Sounds to me like you want to instigate a debate.

Satan is mentioned more than two dozen times in the bible. If you're questioning the validity of scripture, why not start a new thread in the apologetics section.

 

[artybloke]

Can you explain the book of Job in context with this statement.

It's fiction.

 

[Katydid]

It's fiction

I am not going to debate in this, but I will say that I do believe the Bible is truth. The bible states that Satan exists, therefore I believe that he exists.

 

[Katydid]

Well,we made it to church. Oh my!! I wish I could say that I felt good going, but once we got there, we did not feel good about this service. So, I am talking to a Chaplain tomorrow and I am going to see if one of the posts close by has a service that will fill our needs. This one just wasn't at all what we were looking for.

 

[JimfromOhio]

It's fiction.

The main point, the Book of Job is one of the books in the Bible and being read to understand God's view of situations. If God didn't want the Book of Job part of the Bible, it would not have been written. It would be unethical to represent something as literal history that never happened. Job, like many other parts of Scripture that describe miraculous events, is presented as straightforward history.

Job reads like history. It talks about a man named Job. He lived in the land of Uz. It relates details about his family, his life, and his suffering. It communicates to us his friends’ interest in his suffering, and the spiritual struggling with which Job dealt. There is nothing about the content that ought to cause us to reject its historicity. It is not presented as figurative or symbolic. For many of us, it is set forth as what actually happened.

Now, if we should reject Job as history merely because it contains matters which are extraordinary, then we ought to reject much of the rest of the Bible as well. In fact, the Bible, as an inspired document from God, would be rejected on the same grounds, because the idea that God reveals his will to man through the inspiration of the Scriptures is extraordinary.

What's interesting is that other biblical writers refer to Job as a real person. Ezekiel refers to Job along with Noah and Daniel (Ezekiel 14:14,20). And James draws upon the example of Job to comfort the suffering, proving the point that God is merciful. He commends the endurance of Job (Jas. 5:11). It would not be very comforting if Job were nothing more than a “Jack and the Beanstalk” story. These biblical references alone authenticate Job as an historical person. In 1 Corinthians 3:19, Paul quotes from Job 5:13 with the words, “It is written,” a regular formula for the introduction of an inspired quotation.

From the Book of Job, we see that God is in complete control. Satan had neither the power nor the authority to do anything without the permission of God. It was consistent with God’s nature and will for him to have allowed those things to happen to Job. The Lord’s point to Job, at the end of the book, is that he is the all-powerful Creator. He is the loving Sustainer. And he is the perfect Ruler. He created the Universe, and he knows how to govern it as well.

Regarding Satan’s “bet” with God demonstrate the true character of Satan. His arrogance in the prescence of Jehovah and his inability to “see” the future confirm that he is far removed from the divine nature. God sees the future of Job and Satan cannot.

Ezekiel 14:14
even if these three men—Noah, Daniel and Job—were in it, they could save only themselves by their righteousness, declares the Sovereign LORD.

Ezekiel 14:20
as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, even if Noah, Daniel and Job were in it, they could save neither son nor daughter. They would save only themselves by their righteousness.

Romans 11:34-36
Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?"[a]
"Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay him?"[b]
For from him and through him and to him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.

a. Romans 11:34 Isaiah 40:13
b. Romans 11:35 Job 41:11

1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness" [ Job 5:13] ;

James 5:11
As you know, we consider blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of Job's perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought about. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Interesting though that there are alot of denominations or faiths (mostly modern or humanistic) that do not believe that Satan actually exists or the story of Job is true. And view the Bible as the witness of God rather than the Word of God. In other words, the Bible's account is symbolic. Some actually believe that the concept of salvation after death is symbolic or nonexistent. There are those who do not believe that Satan causes suffering. And of course, there are denominations that clearly states that they don't believe in any spiritual reasons for suffering.

 

[Flynmonkie]

OK I didn't know where else to put this but my question is, Is satan really this powerful? So here is the deal

I mean, we are TRULY wanting to go, but EVERY week we prepare, we plan, then Saturday comes and something happens that keeps us from going on Sunday.
Is satan REALLY this powerful?

Hi Again Katydid!!
Well yes and no. I believe that Satan has been given an enormous amount of power. He has been left to rule this world. However, as been mentioned before in this thread, Greater is He that is in you, than He that is in the world. But I too have been in situations where I can tell you spiritual warfare is quite real. He will dump every obstacle in your path as possible if it would work. You just cannot let it. Satan loves discouragement.

My thoughts are that knowing what a strong Christian you are from your posting history. So what? You obviously study at home. There are going to be those times that you just have to miss services. Satan would love to make you question if this would hinder your relationship with God! But it does not!! What a better way to make you question! My advice is not to get too worked up about it (remember we are told not to worry! So why are you?) And just self-study at home. The past four weeks we have had to miss church due to work schedules and illness. And I am disappointed as that my pastor was working on some great sermons I wanted very badly to hear. But God knows my heart, and obviously it was just not that important compared to other more pressing things going on. IMVHO

 

[Flynmonkie]

Satan is powerful.

Satan is an angelic majesty who is not to be reviled, but he is still a created being and thus is totally under God's control and authority. Therefore, satan rules by God's permission. The continuation of Satan's rulership in this world is only because God, for His own reasons, is withholding Satan's ultimate doom (Revelation 20:10). God thus is permitting or allowing Satan to ply his trade temporarily.

Jesus call Satan the "ruler of this world" (John 12:31; John 14:30; and John 16:11)

A. Biblical References relating to Satan.
Ezekiel 28:13-19: Satan's Origin
Genesis 3:1-6: Satan's First Temptation
Isaiah 14: Satan's Fall From Heaven
Job 1:6-13: Many Facts About Satan's Limitations
Matthew 4:1-10: Satan Tempts Jesus Christ
Revelation 20:1-3, 10: Satan's Eternal Punishment

B. Satan discusses Job with God. See Job 1:6-13
1) Satan is accountable to God. 1:6
2) His thoughts are open to God. 1:7
3) Satan can only be at one place at a time. 1:6,7
4) Satan cannot see into our minds or foretell the future. 1:9-11
5) Because Satan can do nothing without God's permission, God's people can overcome his attacks through God's power. 1:12
6) God always puts limits on what Satan can do. 1:12, and 2:6
7) Satan is real and active on earth. 1:7

Many people think that believing in God protects them from trouble, so when calamity comes, they question God's goodness and justice. But the message of Job is that you should not give up on God just because bad things happen. Faith in God does not guarantee personal prosperity, and lack of faith does not guarantee troubles in this life. If this were so, people would believe in God simply to get rich. God is capable of rescuing us from suffering, but He may also allow suffering to come for reasons we cannot understand. Job shows here a perspective broader than his own personal comfort. If we always know why we suffer, our faith would have no room to grow.
1 Peter 5:8-10 -- Satan is our great enemy.

The warfare the Bible talks about is the war of the wills. Yes, it is true that God have the ability to physically heal and the evil angels have the ability to heal and make one physically sick.

Revelation 20:1-3,10
Satan's power is not eternal--he will meet his doom. He began his evil work in mankind at the beginning, (in Genesis 3:1-6 it is recorded), and continues it today, but he will be judged when he is thrown into the Lake of Fire. Satan was released from the bottomless pit (20:7), but he will never be released from the Lake of Fire. He will never be a threat to anyone again.

2 Timothy 2:22 says, "Run from anything that gives you the evil thoughts young men often have, but stay close to anything that makes you want to do right. Have faith and love, and enjoy the companionship of those who love the Lord and have pure hearts."

Running away is sometimes considered cowardly. But wise people realize that removing oneself physically from temptation is often prudent. Perhaps you experience a recurring temptation that is difficult to resist. Remove yourself physically from the situation. Knowing when to run is as important in spiritual battle as knowing when and how to fight.

James 1:12 says, "Happy is the man who doesn't give in and do wrong when he is tempted, for afterwards he will get as his reward the crown of life that God has promised those who love Him."

Can Satan attack without God’s permission?
NKJ, Luke 22:31-32 - And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”

NKJ, Job 1: 12 - And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

NKJ, Job 2:6 - And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, he is in your hand, but spare his life.”

Awesome post!

 

[Flynmonkie]

Satan is a mythological creature imported by the Jews from Zoroastrainism, and into Christianity from dualist heresies like Gnosticism. He only exists in the mind of the literalist and the vaguely psychotic.

So no, it wasn't Satan. And stuff happens. Live with it.

Scripture Please, in addition points of reference. Because you are going to have to discredit the entire Bible if you deem "Satan" a mythological creature. In additon, I would like to know the denomination that would make such a claim. Thanks.

 

[artybloke]

The only time that Satan appears in the OT is in parts written after the encounter with the Persian empire, such as Job, where he actually only appears in the fictional prologue to the poem of Job's sufferings.

The writers in the NT just carried this on.

As for whether it discredits the whole Bible, I don't see how. The Bible mentions mythical creatures like Behemoth and Leviathen, includes legends about talking animals and the sun stopping in the middle of the sky, and only a literalist who doesn't understand poetry would think they would have to exist in order for the Bible to be true at its deepest level.

 

[Flynmonkie]

Interesting

and your take on Genesis?

I realize some Anglicans views on “Hell” however this is the first I have ever heard of this…..

 

[jezic]

honestly yes it is rather likely that these are all situations used for the benefit of satan.

 

[Ave Maria]

Maybe God wants you to go somewhere else?

 

[mysteryman]

and there is satan at your front door and there she is at your bedroom door and there he is on your dinner plate, and there he is on your TV set and there on your billboards, and there, on the front of your magazines_____________ AND THERE ON THE FRONT PAGES OF ALL YOUR NEWSPAPERS, WITH FIRE AND BREATHING WORDS OF PEACE AND DROPPIN G BOMBS IN THE NAME OF GOD AND PEACE_________ OH HELL YA! WE LOVE YOU SATAN

 

[mysteryman]

IS SATAN THAT P O W E R F U L L______ TEST HIM AND SEE, do you live in the grips of SATAN or are you this lovely, pure young,, sweet, innocent young boy/girl who just loves God?_____________________________ hell_________________________o.

 

[artybloke]

Interesting

and your take on Genesis?

I realize some Anglicans views on “Hell” however this is the first I have ever heard of this…..

Which writer? J, E, P, or D? Besides which, doesn't Genesis mention a talking snake, rather than a bloke in a red suit?

 

[Daisysqueaks]

The only time that Satan appears in the OT is in parts written after the encounter with the Persian empire, such as Job, where he actually only appears in the fictional prologue to the poem of Job's sufferings.

The writers in the NT just carried this on.

As for whether it discredits the whole Bible, I don't see how. The Bible mentions mythical creatures like Behemoth and Leviathen, includes legends about talking animals and the sun stopping in the middle of the sky, and only a literalist who doesn't understand poetry would think they would have to exist in order for the Bible to be true at its deepest level.

Um just asking but who tempted Jesus in Matt 4?

And just how do you know that the Behemoth and Levitiathen weren't real animals now extinct?