Is salvation conditional to the SA?

[salvationisconditional]

IN the doctrinal statement it says it is. It says "continued obedience" is neccessary. Yet all people in the past in the SA I have talked to believe in "salvation by grace". That is not how the church was founded though.

So which is it to you?

 

[elm0]

Why can't it be both?

'Salvation by grace', in my understanding, means we are saved through God's grace, the sacrificial life of His Son Jesus to forgive us of our sins.

Doesn't 'continued obedience' simply mean that once you have accepted this salvation, that you continue to live your life in obedience to God's Word?

Or am I wrong?

 

[Andy Broadley]

Sounds about diddly right to me (to quote Ned Flanders).

That would certainly be my understanding of it. Otherwise it would be a case of 'get saved, then do as you like'. Salvation comes through Grace and forgiveness, and obediece is part and parcel of that.

 

[salvationisconditional]

See, I have talked to many SA people before, and they said salvation is only by grace.

I think it is both too, but salvation is conditional is primary.

It doesn't make sense to go to church to hear doubletalk of "you are saved immediately without doing anything but believing you are, you don't need to repent, that comes later as you like" and "you better do right". It's a weak statement. It means nothing. That is not salvation and I hear it everywhere.

 

[InTheFlame]

Here's my personal take on it -

It's a bit like being saved when you're about to drown. Someone throws a rope out to you, you grab onto the rope, right? Well, you've got to keep holding onto that rope and trusting that it's going to get you into the boat. If you let go, you're likely to go back to drowning.

Jesus said, 'he who BELIEVES in me will be saved'. I firmly believe that anyone who honestly believes in Jesus - not just that he existed, but that he said the truth - will realise that in Jesus' way, is a GOOD way... the best way to live life ('I am the way, the truth and the life' ... 'I came to give you life in all its abundance' etc).

I think, though, that it's dangerous to point to a person's actions as proof of their salvation - or lack thereof. I suspect it's the struggle to become more like the person God intended us to be that matters, and allowing the Holy Spirit to slowly but surely change our hearts. God doesn't mind us failing and falling down. What he minds is us giving up completely. I guess we can never know for sure whether another person has given up or is merely struggling in their faith... so I think encouraging others in their efforts is good, but telling them their salvation is illusory is dangerous... if you know what I mean!

It doesn't make sense to go to church to hear doubletalk of "you are saved immediately without doing anything but believing you are, you don't need to repent, that comes later as you like" and "you better do right". It's a weak statement. It means nothing. That is not salvation and I hear it everywhere.

I don't think I've ever heard this said in church (I've heard of it happening, though) ... generally the 'salvation process' I've heard goes along the lines of -

- realise your need for salvation
- realise your incapacity to gain salvation on your own merits
- repent of your own failings
- accept Jesus' sacrifice
- you're saved and in God's family

 

[Abiel]

Isnt it that we are saved by grace, but that we can backslide from our salvation if we do not live a holy life?

 

[Andy Broadley]

'Backslide'. One of wonderful 'Army' words.

Yea, I think thats right. Living right won't get us saved, only grace will do that, but how we live keeps us that way.

It's similer ti saying that going to church won't make you a Christian, but you can't be a Christian and have no Church.

 

[Andy Broadley]

Another good 'Army' word is that we love to call people 'folk' instead of people

 

[wobbly]

whoops wrong thread
Martin

 

[Abiel]

That's ok Wobbly- welcome anyway!

 

[SonOfThunder]

When I was going to the Baptist church for 4 months i noticed that at the end of the service they asked if anyone wanted to give their life to God and we all had our heads bowed.

no one ever went forward until one girl did before Christmas, everyone was excited and they talked about her being baptised and being a member of the church. She had not read a BIble before and I assumed she was thought to be saved at this point by the others excitement.

Is this how it works in the Salvation Army? I am new to this church


James

 

[Andy Broadley]

I think we make the mistake here of classing being saved and becoming a member of the Church as one and the same thing, when they are clearly unrelated.


We are saved at the point when we make a definate decsaion to follew Jesus and ask Him to forgive us. It matters not a jot how much of the Bible you may or may not have read at this point.

Becoming a member of the Church is different. This will vary from one branch to another and involve different processes.

You can go through the latter without achieving the former, but not the other way round.