There you go, lying again.Yes.
I have pointed this out to freegrace about a hundred times, since he only quotes verse 28.
again sir, if you cannot save yourself, how can you hope that others can get saved?
You said:This view has no assurance.
You said:There is no promise that if we were to perform it, that it would even work. So hopefully this can convince you that this is the wrong view.
You said:On the other hand I believe both in salvic repentance and assurance of salvation as the Bible teaches assurance and election as well as obedience and apostacy. It teaches all of those things.
Do you believe that "knowing Him" is just another way to differentiate a believer from an unbeliever?Actually, 1 John 2:3 says,
"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments."
Have you not ever read the Scripture:In other words, if a believer finds that they are keeping His commandments, that is the assurance that they have that they know the Lord.
There are a lot of believers who lie and do not know the truth. Shame on them.But the person who says they know the Lord, and yet they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar, and the truth is not in them (See: 1 John 2:4).
well if you don't feel comfortable talking about your own salvation, but you wish to convert others, I guess there is nothing more to talk about. I have refuted every single post since page one, thats 27 pages. We can go back and forth and back and forth. But I am just letting you know that no one will believe your view works if you cannot speak of salvation practically. Demonstrating that it actually works practically in your own life. I am not saying you are not saved. I am saying if one believes they are saved by works, and they sin, then they have not saved themselves because they are wretched before the eyes of God. Anyway thank you for the debate. I probably won't open up any more of these threads due to the fact there are posters such as yourself and others that are converting unchristian views.You have my answer. Was it not completely clear? What is there that needs to be clarified for you to understand?
Sir the point of the picture is that we can be 1% wrong in salvation and miss the entire process. You can say 99 correct things and be wrong in 1 out of a 100 and still miss salvation, that was the purpose of the post. Anyway. I feel that we have talked about this topic for long enough. Thank you for the debate. And I pray that you continue to read the Bible, not books. Just read through the new testament once a year. (I even read the old testament yearly). Staying in the word will calibrate any errors we have in time. Also don't forget the power of prayer. Prayer can allow the spirit to open up our minds to the truth of the scripture. So don't forget to pray. Good bye .As for your picture here that says,
"We live in a time where Satan does not hide anymore, and you still don't see him."
What did Jesus say about the devil?
Well, Jesus said this to the Pharisees:
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." (John 8:44-47).
Not sure you caught what Jesus said here. He said that the Pharisees where of of their father the devil, and the LUSTS of their father they will do. Meaning, lusts is in reference to various types of sins, and so the Pharisees sinned as a part of being of the devil.
Jesus said in verse 47 that the Pharisees were not of God because they do not hear His words. This means to "obey" his words. For Jesus said in verse 31, "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;"
To continue in His Christ's words, we will obey Him. This is the context of verse 47 (Which is to hear or obey God's words).
In 1 John 3:10, John says,
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother"
1 John 3:8 says,
"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."
John 3:20 says,
"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved."
1 John 2:4 says,
"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
I am not sure you caught it. Jesus said in John 8, that the devil is a liar and there is no truth within him. Jesus is the way, the TRUTH, and the life (John 14:6). Yet, 1 John 2:4 says that the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar, and the truth (TRUTH = JESUS) is not in them. Meaning, if a person breaks God's commands and they say they know Jesus, they really do not know Jesus who is the truth, and they are merely lying (like the devil lies).
Also, the devil appears as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). He has not changed this tactic. So the picture that says that the devil does not hide anymore is simply not true. He hides by deceiving others into thinking he is an angel of light when he is really the father of lies.
2 Timothy 2:26 NKJV says,
"and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will."
People today have been taken captive to do the devil's will by sinning. For the lusts of their father, they will do. Jesus said it to the Pharisees in John 8. For Jesus also said you will know a tree by its fruit. For a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit. Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire (See Matthew 7:17-20).
thanks for the debate, I won't be posting here anymore. Good luck in your journeys. Stay in the word, read it regularly and pray!No, the sin of the pharisees was unbelief. They wrongly assumed doing works of righteousness would get them into heaven.
But this is what Jesus said about them:
Matt 5:20 - For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Do you believe that recipients of eternal life CAN perish?
Jesus said they shall never perish.
Is it logical to believe opposite to what Jesus taught?
Obviously not.
You have my answer. Was it not completely clear? What is there that needs to be clarified for you to understand?
No it wasn’t clear.
What’s clear is yes or no.
Either lost means without salvation or it doesn’t.
Either sinner means without Christ or it doesn’t.
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9
Only those who obey the Lord will receive eternal life at the end of the proverbial Day.
Only those hear His Voice and follow Him all their life without falling away will receive eternal life.
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28
Only those who remain in Christ have eternal life.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
Only those who endure to the end will be saved.
But he who endures to the end shall be saved
Matthew 24:13
Difficult is the way that leads to life and there are few who find it.
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. Matthew 7:14
JLB
Apparently this poster is totally unfamiliar with the concept of a policy statement.To all:
I also want to stress again, that John 10:27 does not say that His sheep OUGHT to follow Jesus.
This is patently untrue. If Jesus had made following Him a condition never perishing, this is how v.28 would have been said:Jesus says that his sheep FOLLOW Him. This is the context of John 10:28 of the kind of sheep that cannot be snatched out of his hand.
Sir the point of the picture is that we can be 1% wrong in salvation and miss the entire process.
You said:You can say 99 correct things and be wrong in 1 out of a 100 and still miss salvation, that was the purpose of the post.
You said:Anyway. I feel that we have talked about this topic for long enough. Thank you for the debate.
And I pray that you continue to read the Bible, not books.
You said:Just read through the new testament once a year. (I even read the old testament yearly). Staying in the word will calibrate any errors we have in time. Also don't forget the power of prayer. Prayer can allow the spirit to open up our minds to the truth of the scripture. So don't forget to pray. Good bye .
No it doesn't. Context determines the meaning. In the prodigal son, he REMAINED a son and the father REMAINED his father. What was "lost" was fellowship between them.No it wasn’t clear.
What’s clear is yes or no.
Either lost means without salvation or it doesn’t.
I am always amazed at your claims that come without ANY evidence from Scripture.Either sinner means without Christ or it doesn’t.
I have asked repeatedly for you to point out the actual CONDITI0NAL CLAUSE in either verse. But you haven't. Because you CAN'T.My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28
Those who have been put IN Christ are sealed by the Holy Spirit, which is a GARUANTEE for the day of redemption. Doesn't sound like OSNAS to me. Not even close.Only those who remain in Christ have eternal life.
Please check the context. It's about the 7 year period we call the Tribulation.Only those who endure to the end will be saved.
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