Is pleasure during sexual intercourse sinful?

[Michie]

Question: I am reading a book on Catholic moral theology. In the book, it quotes a well-known theologian of the 20th century wherein he teaches: “Seeking pleasure and enjoyment in (sexual) intercourse is wrong. … it is an intrinsically evil element, a sort of necessary evil. That evil, however, must be tolerated since there is no way of eliminating it.” My question is how, in a valid biblical marriage, is it evil to enjoy pleasure in the act of intercourse between a man and woman? Are they supposed to pretend that it is not a very pleasurable act?

— Name, location withheld

Answer: It is not evil, and couples are not required to do that which would be difficult or even impossible. I do not here mention the “well-known theologian” or the book you reference since I am dubious that the quote in that book is accurate and, due to the use of the eclipses and the lack of more specific notations as to its source, I cannot verify it or read it in context. But, as stated, it is not Catholic teaching.

Continued below.

Is pleasure during sexual intercourse sinful?

A reader asks

www.oursundayvisitor.com

 

[Bob Crowley]

The question is absurd. God made sex pleasurable for the specific reason of driving us together.

Obviously He had in mind the creation of the family, and we of course often misuse it.

But the question in itself is absurd. God MADE it pleasurable.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

The question is absurd. God made sex pleasurable for the specific reason of driving us together.

Obviously He had in mind the creation of the family, and we of course often misuse it.

But the question in itself is absurd. God MADE it pleasurable.

Yeah, it shows a gnostic/Manichean mentality.

Around 1983, I went to a Catholic wedding where one of my female cousins got married and the priest in his blessing prayer actually had a little joke where he prayed that God would give the couple "really great sex". I guess I can see some people having this view bases on Concupiscence ideas of saint Augustine and certain passages out of the book of Tobit (the prayer at the end where they lie together "not for lust" but to have children, or some other variant translation.). I can't imagine any Catholic pre-marital counseling imparting such notions, from what I can tell from the "Ascension Presents" folks on YouTube it's the typical Christian common sense that one would normally expect.

 

[narnia59]

I wish they'd given the name of the book. Unfortunately there are lots of "Catholic" books that have aspects that are problematic. It's why everything should be verified by really knowing the Catechism. And it states:

2362 "The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude." Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:

The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation.

 

[fide]

The Catechism reference to this issue should be the definitive answer to this question; it states it very well. The Catechism is an excellent resource for Catholics, for so many current issues, and the many perennial questions of faithful living in general. In this thread (thank you narnia59), CCC 2362 declares "spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit."

I believe, however, for clarification's sake "body and spirit" needs to be emphasized. Even faithful Catholics can be so overwhelmed by the "pleasure and enjoyment of body" that they never seek or perceive or understand the existence of that of the spirit. The spiritual and supernatural significance of that conjugal act, however, is a billion times more important.

 

[Joined2krist]

I have always wondered why Adam and Eve never had sex in the Garden of Eden, before the fall. Does this count?

 

[chilehed]

I have always wondered why Adam and Eve never had sex in the Garden of Eden, before the fall. Does this count?

Who says they didn't? Where did you get that idea? I've got a hundred bucks that says they had by far the most mind-blowing conjugal relations that anyone has ever had.

 

[Wolseley]

Provided you are lawfully married to the person you're boffing, and provided that you're not trying to preclude the creation of children through the act itself, then you can have a veritable phantasmagoric smorgasbord of sexual ecstasies, and it is not sinful. Be safe and have fun.

 

[Joined2krist]

Who says they didn't? Where did you get that idea? I've got a hundred bucks that says they had by far the most mind-blowing conjugal relations that anyone has ever had.

Genesis 2

 

[Gnarwhal]

The question is absurd. God made sex pleasurable for the specific reason of driving us together.

Obviously He had in mind the creation of the family, and we of course often misuse it.

But the question in itself is absurd. God MADE it pleasurable.

It's absurd from our Catholic sensibilities but if the question is coming from someone brought up in a puritan culture, it's fair game. Some fundamentalist groups still infer that sex, even in the entirely appropriate context of marriage, is sinful and one shouldn't enjoy it. I think that warped mindset is fading, but it's unfortunately being replaced with the opposite perversion from the sexual revolution and not the correct view the Church holds.

I have always wondered why Adam and Eve never had sex in the Garden of Eden, before the fall. Does this count?

If they didn't I think it's because they didn't necessarily need to. Before the world was broken and fallen, they were in perfect communion with the Holy Trinity. I once heard rightly-ordered sex is a very small glimpse of that unity with the Trinity because it forges the marital bond that is imitates the communal nature of God, and it also harnesses the creative energy God placed in our souls that the cosmos itself sprang from. So perhaps, in a word, sex would've been redundant?

Or maybe they did it a bunch and it was just never necessary to record in the histories. Who knows?

Personally I've always wondered if God originally designed Adam and Eve to be capable of procreation, since they were intended to live forever. It was only after the fall that they began having children, so I sometimes wonder if he saw progeny as a necessary aspect of salvation history once the fall occurred. I don't know, just a weird thing that goes through my brain.

 

[Michie]

If they didn't I think it's because they didn't necessarily need to. Before the world was broken and fallen, they were in perfect communion with the Holy Trinity. I once heard rightly-ordered sex is a very small glimpse of that unity with the Trinity because it forges the marital bond that is imitates the communal nature of God, and it also harnesses the creative energy God placed in our souls that the cosmos itself sprang from. So perhaps, in a word, sex would've been redundant?

Or maybe they did it a bunch and it was just never necessary to record in the histories. Who knows?

Personally I've always wondered if God originally designed Adam and Eve to be capable of procreation, since they were intended to live forever. It was only after the fall that they began having children, so I sometimes wonder if he saw progeny as a necessary aspect of salvation history once the fall occurred. I don't know, just a weird thing that goes through my brain.

I always thought God instructed all of creation to be fruitful and multiply. God told Eve that childbirth would be painful after the fall but she would still desire her husband. I tend to think that they had sex in the Garden but for how long is the question. Sex in the Garden was probably pretty awesome… I wonder if it was a bit of a letdown after the fall.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I always thought God instructed all of creation to be fruitful and multiply. God told Eve that childbirth would be painful after the fall but she would still desire her husband. I tend to think that they had sex in the Garden but for how long is the question. Sex in the Garden was probably pretty awesome… I wonder if it was a bit of a letdown after the fall.

Makes you wonder then, were there other children before Cain and Abel? Or more likely, I bet they were just complete masters of their bodies rhythms and perhaps practiced a form of NFP. Though I wonder why they would want to delay children in a pre-fallen world? So many questions lol.

But yeah I bet you're right, I bet the experience was mind blowing before the fall. Like "make that face too long and it'll get stuck that way" good.

 

[Chesster]

Personally I've always wondered if God originally designed Adam and Eve to be capable of procreation, since they were intended to live forever. It was only after the fall that they began having children, so I sometimes wonder if he saw progeny as a necessary aspect of salvation history once the fall occurred. I don't know, just a weird thing that goes through my brain.

This is an interesting tidbit from Anne Catherine Emmerich pertaining to the fall she says, “Then clinging to the trunk with its hind feet, it moved its head toward hers and told her that, if she would eat of the fruit of that tree, she would no longer be in servitude, she would become free, and understand how the multiplication of the human race was to be effected. Adam and Eve had already received the command to increase and multiply, but I understood that they did not know as yet how God willed it to be brought about.”

I never considered anything like that.

 

[Gnarwhal]

This is an interesting tidbit from Anne Catherine Emmerich pertaining to the fall she says, “Then clinging to the trunk with its hind feet, it moved its head toward hers and told her that, if she would eat of the fruit of that tree, she would no longer be in servitude, she would become free, and understand how the multiplication of the human race was to be effected. Adam and Eve had already received the command to increase and multiply, but I understood that they did not know as yet how God willed it to be brought about.”

I never considered anything like that.

Fascinating insight from Blessed Anne Catherine

 

[chilehed]

Genesis 2

Genesis 2 says nothing of the kind. Not even close.

 

[Michie]

Makes you wonder then, were there other children before Cain and Abel? Or more likely, I bet they were just complete masters of their bodies rhythms and perhaps practiced a form of NFP. Though I wonder why they would want to delay children in a pre-fallen world? So many questions lol.

But yeah I bet you're right, I bet the experience was mind blowing before the fall. Like "make that face too long and it'll get stuck that way" good.

Well anyway, tried to use the laughing emoticon reaction but it’s not working for me. But my face would probably get stuck… lol!

 

[fide]

The question ought to be, not "What is permissible in the bedroom without getting into trouble with God," but "What is righteous, and holy, and fitting to the will of God":

Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,
that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. (Eph 5:25-27)

The priest who celebrated our marriage said to me, stating it very simply I think, "You are called to make your wife a saint, and she, you."

 

[WarriorAngel]

Question: I am reading a book on Catholic moral theology. In the book, it quotes a well-known theologian of the 20th century wherein he teaches: “Seeking pleasure and enjoyment in (sexual) intercourse is wrong. … it is an intrinsically evil element, a sort of necessary evil. That evil, however, must be tolerated since there is no way of eliminating it.” My question is how, in a valid biblical marriage, is it evil to enjoy pleasure in the act of intercourse between a man and woman? Are they supposed to pretend that it is not a very pleasurable act?

— Name, location withheld

Answer: It is not evil, and couples are not required to do that which would be difficult or even impossible. I do not here mention the “well-known theologian” or the book you reference since I am dubious that the quote in that book is accurate and, due to the use of the eclipses and the lack of more specific notations as to its source, I cannot verify it or read it in context. But, as stated, it is not Catholic teaching.

Continued below.

Is pleasure during sexual intercourse sinful?

A reader asks

www.oursundayvisitor.com

Um... well then procreation can't happen and would not happen.

1. If a chore, who would bother?
2. The Lord created the body to respond in pleasure.
3. Without the big O from pleasure, well male stuff wouldn't meet female stuff = baby.
4. Women would never want another child after labor if she didn't get something from it.
5. St Paul, submit one to the other. ALSO: So as not to cheat, do not defraud one another.
UM - if it wasn't pleasure... who would care? I mean really.
[Go back to number 1, and you will see without pleasure = no cheating]

I know a heresy exists with this. Not Catholic teaching.

 

[WarriorAngel]

This is an interesting tidbit from Anne Catherine Emmerich pertaining to the fall she says, “Then clinging to the trunk with its hind feet, it moved its head toward hers and told her that, if she would eat of the fruit of that tree, she would no longer be in servitude, she would become free, and understand how the multiplication of the human race was to be effected. Adam and Eve had already received the command to increase and multiply, but I understood that they did not know as yet how God willed it to be brought about.”

I never considered anything like that.

I'm suspish that their bodies weren't as they are in the flesh.
But no way I could know til I get to Heaven to see the 'full movie' or cliff notes, if allowed.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Makes you wonder then, were there other children before Cain and Abel? Or more likely, I bet they were just complete masters of their bodies rhythms and perhaps practiced a form of NFP. Though I wonder why they would want to delay children in a pre-fallen world? So many questions lol.

But yeah I bet you're right, I bet the experience was mind blowing before the fall. Like "make that face too long and it'll get stuck that way" good.

I fully suspect living 900 years they probably had aprox 800 children, or at least 700.
I do not suspect they had NFP.

She was the one who helped separate us from the Lord, so she was to have pain in labor and be fruitful and multiply [and all those forever in humanity who are capable]