Is Palestine a State?

[Pseudonym]

My question does not pertain to how the United States, United Nations, Israel, or Palestine defines statehood, but rather how the definition of "state" pertains to Palestine.

What we know:

1.) the U.S., U.N., and Israel do not recognize Palestine as a state.

2.) Palestine and most Middle Eastern states do recognize Palestine as a state.

3.) as of late, President Bush has expressed his desire to see Palestine become a state.

4.) Palestine is sovereign: Palestine is self-governed, has definable territory, and is independent. Palestine regulates its own trade, operates its own infrastructure, and commands its own military.

5.) Palestinians have elected their own government. Regardless of who that government is or what your opinion is of said government, Palestinians have nonetheless elected their own government.

Considering these and your own opinions, my poll question is: Is Palestine a State?

I would also like you to answer the following in a post:

1.) Why did you vote how you did? If you voted Yes, explain why Palestine is a state and the criteria you used to determine such. If you voted No, explain why Palestine is not a state and what your criteria for a state is. If you voted Other, of course explain.

2.) Why do you think the U.S., U.N., and Israel do not recognize Palestine as a state?

and

3.) What are the ramifications for Palestine not being recognized as a state by these entities?

Thanks, and happy arguing.

 

[B®ent]

One could argue that over the past 50 years Palestine has become a Nation; but Palestine is certainly not an entirely separate political entity which State-status would imply. In my opinion, Palestine is a Nation. But, unlike a normal Nation which is held together by common values such as traditions and religion, Palestine is united by its hatred towards the Jew. In other words, there is nothing particularly noble about the Palestinian Nation. In my opinion this Nation has no legitimate claim to become a State.

 

[Vylo]

Palestine is a state as much as Israel is. Now if they could both come to terms with that instead of kidnapping people and blowing up civilian structures, they might be able to building a decent living for their people instead of constantly having to fear being blown to pieces by someone on the other side of the fence.

 

[Balko]

Despite Hamas, Palestine is not "united in hating Jews". The idea that its sovereign is a bit weak. As they chose HAMAS as the lesser of two evils to elect.

1. I think its a state. I don't know, its not like most states at least. I'll get back to it later.

2. It's not really self-governed. Corrupt people control the government and military(not that I would call it that), with no way out for the populace to make the nation their own. The government does not seem to be run by the people's consent.

3. I'm pretty sure some countries would like to change this. Israel doesn't like HAMAS, so why'd they want to have it like it is. Maybe with massive reform, other countries like even Israel will recognize it, but they shouldn't recognize it until at the very least its purged of HAMAS. And even then needs to be more friendly. Since HAMAS is more hateful to Israel than Israel is to palestine, its more logical to do that first. Otherwise Palestine will continue falling down a hole that it didn't want to dig in the first place.

 

[B®ent]

Why not simply execute everyone in Hamas?

 

[seebs]

I voted yes, not because I think their current government is even legitimate, let alone desirable, but because they have the key properties of a state; a claim to some land and a populace. That the land is disputed is hardly an unheard of condition for a state to be in.

 

[indigo10]

Israel has turned Palestine into a concentration camp.
Of all the people in the world Israel should know better. Israel is a Terrorist State.

 

[Xanderman]

Palestinians are in their refugee status because they chose to be. It is as simple as that.

 

[Sleeker]

Israel has turned Palestine into a concentration camp.
Of all the people in the world Israel should know better. Israel is a Terrorist State.

Way to keep to the subject and not get off-track.

Palestine is not a state. It is an autonomous region within Israel. I think the main reason why is because they have little international support in claiming that their land is a state. I support a Palestinian state as soon as they have proven themselves responsible to manage a state. They haven't.

 

[xMinionX]

1.) Why did you vote how you did? If you voted Yes, explain why Palestine is a state and the criteria you used to determine such. If you voted No, explain why Palestine is not a state and what your criteria for a state is. If you voted Other, of course explain.

I voted yes more or less because of facts #4 and #5 on your list, although #2 is signifigant as well.

2.) Why do you think the U.S., U.N., and Israel do not recognize Palestine as a state?

Well, Israel obviously has a vested interest in Palestine not being recognized as a state. And the US is allied with Israel. As for the UN...

3.) What are the ramifications for Palestine not being recognized as a state by these entities?

A frustrated populace that will probably continue generating terrorists, for starters. The rest of the ME will consider it a slap in the face from the western world, which won't help any. Israel and Palestine will continue to clash, and as civilian bodies pile up (unintentionally, but they happen) more terrorists will appear, and the whole thing will go in a vicious cycle.

I can't say for sure whether Israel and Palestine would stop fighting if Palestine was given official recognition. But it can't be helping things.

Why not simply execute everyone in Hamas?

Because we don't live in the 14th century anymore. There are plenty of options outside of "You bad, we kill!"

 

[Sleeker]

Because we don't live in the 14th century anymore. There are plenty of options outside of "You bad, we kill!"

You sound like the crocodiles in the Pearls Before Swine comic strip about killing zebras.

 

[B®ent]

Israel has turned Palestine into a concentration camp.
Of all the people in the world Israel should know better. Israel is a Terrorist State.

Israel does not send suicide bombers into weddings and pizza parlors to set off bombs loaded with nails and screws. Israel does not cut off the heads of their enemies. What do YOU expect Israel to do in response to those acts of evil? Just lay down and let it happen?

Why don't you just admit to HATING Jews and we can move on from there?

 

[xMinionX]

You sound like the crocodiles in the Pearls Before Swine comic strip about killing zebras.

Never read that one. Is it any good? I'm a Calvin and Hobbes person myself.

 

[xMinionX]

Why don't you just admit to HATING Jews and we can move on from there?

You have psychic powers? Amazing!

 

[Pseudonym]

One could argue that over the past 50 years Palestine has become a Nation;

I don't think this is arguable. In a political sense, a nation is any group of people who are united by a common trait, whether it be religion, culture, ethnicity, language, or whatever. Palestinians form a nation in the same way that Catholicism is a nation and English-speakers are a nation.

But, unlike a normal Nation which is held together by common values such as traditions and religion, Palestine is united by its hatred towards the Jew.

While I disagree, wouldn't this be a common value anyways? And as I state above it's hard to deny that Palestinians are united by a common language, culture, and religion which makes them like any "normal" nation.

 

[Pseudonym]

The idea that its sovereign is a bit weak. As they chose HAMAS as the lesser of two evils to elect.

Sovereignty has nothing to do with who is in charge. Soveriegnty just means that a state has full control over their own territory. North Korea is a sovereign state, but they have a far worse political situation than Palestine. However valid or invalid you consider the election to have been, Palestinians were still allowed to vote for their own leaders.

2. It's not really self-governed. Corrupt people control the government and military(not that I would call it that), with no way out for the populace to make the nation their own. The government does not seem to be run by the people's consent.

Again, the type of government has nothing to do with the term "self-governed." North Korea is self-governed, yet the populace has no political voice at all. Self-governed just means that Palestine is ruled by Palestinians, as opposed to Israelis or Britons.

 

[Vylo]

Why don't you just admit to HATING Jews and we can move on from there?

For the millionth time. Jewish does not means Israeli. There are lots of Jews outside of Israel, infact 2 thirds of them live outside of Israel.

Israel does not send suicide bombers into weddings and pizza parlors to set off bombs loaded with nails and screws. Israel does not cut off the heads of their enemies.

Who needs to when the western world has provided you with state of the art military equipment. Israel has plenty of bombers, they just don't need to commit suicide.

What do YOU expect Israel to do in response to those acts of evil? Just lay down and let it happen?

No, but they could stop targeting civilians over it. Of course they wouldn't be in this position if they hadn't encroached on the area to begin with.

 

[Sleeker]

Never read that one. Is it any good? I'm a Calvin and Hobbes person myself.

It's usually pretty funny. It has slight political overtones, but it's mainly neutral in regard to who they make fun of. My favorite comic would be Get Fuzzy though.

No, but they could stop targeting civilians over it.

Israel is not targeting civilians.

 

[ACougar]

They should be a State, however they are incapable of becoming a State for two reasons.

1. The first is that they are used as pawns by other States against Israel. The same organizations that build schools and Hospitals also produce terror and commit crimes against humanity. They would not allow Palistine to become a peaceful State even if Israel was truely willing to cooperate with Palistine, because they need Israel to be the boogy man in order to control thier people.

2. Israel doesn't want Palistine to become a full fledged State that might poise a military threat. It's in a precarious situation, and despite all the games.. it's my opinion that thier intent is to take all the land that was ever historicly under the control of Ancient Israel. It does this with walls, with checkpoints, with bulldozers, by making it literally impossible for most Palistineans to earn a peaceful living.

 

[invisible trousers]

It's a land with borders and people, so I guess it's a state.

Israel has turned Palestine into a concentration camp.

Of all the people in the world Israel should know better. Israel is a Terrorist State.

J-E-W-S