Is Our Bible Accurate?

PerrySB

Newbie
May 30, 2008
332
16
75
Just outside Yosemite Park
✟8,048.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status

This debate began in another thread but I would like the opinion of others. I have a problem believing our current Bible is completely accurate and every word is inspired by God. I want to take a look at how inspired our current Bible is, now I’m speaking of the protestant Bible, be it King James, NIV, NAS. The books of the New Testament were written in Koine Greek, the language of the earliest extant manuscripts, even though some authors often included translations from Hebrew and Aramaic texts. Certainly the Pauline Epistles were written in Greek for Greek-speaking audiences. The study of the Greek New Testament has given undergraduates "a more demanding set of interlocking intellectual challenges than any other subject in the university”. Anybody have any idea why?
When ancient scribes copied earlier books, they wrote notes on the margins of the page to correct their text, you see they didn’t have microsoft word—especially if a scribe accidentally omitted a word or line—and to comment about the text. When later scribes were copying the copy, they were sometimes uncertain if a note was intended to be included as part of the text. Now was a scribe human and without error, I think not. Over time, different regions evolved different versions, each with its own assemblage of
Ancient scribes made errors or alterations when copying manuscripts by hand.[1] Given a manuscript copy, several or many copies, but not the original document, the textual critic seeks to reconstruct the original text (the archetype or autograph) as closely as possible. The same processes can be used to attempt to reconstruct intermediate editions, or recessions, of a document's transcription history.The ultimate objective of the textual critic's work is the production of a "critical edition" containing a text most closely approximating the original. That implies that there is room for error. Not deliberate error but human error.
The Old Testament consists of a collection of works composed at various times from the twelfth to the second century B.C. It was written in classical Hebrew, except some brief portions (Ezra 4:8–6:18 and 7:12–26, Jeremiah 10:11, Daniel 2:4–7:28) which are in the Aramaic language. ]Much of it, such as genealogies, poems and stories, are thought to have been handed down by word of mouth for many generations. Don’t you think there is a little room for error there.
The Old Testament is accepted by us Christians as scripture. Broadly speaking, it is the same as the Hebrew Bible. However, the order of the books is not entirely the same as that found in Hebrew manuscripts and in the ancient versions varies from Judaism in interpretation and emphasis (see for example Isaiah 7:14). Several Christian denominations also incorporate additional books into their canons of the Old Testament. A few groups consider particular translations to be divinely inspired, notably the Greek Septuagint, the Aramaic Peshitta, and the English King James Version.
The Septuagint (Greek translation, from Alexandria in Egypt under the Ptolemies) was generally abandoned in favor of the Masoretic text as the basis for translations of the Old Testament into Western languages from St. Jerome's Bible (the Vulgate) to the present day. In Eastern Christianity, translations based on the Septuagint still prevail. A number of books which are part of the Peshitta or Greek Septuagint but are not found in the Hebrew Bible are often referred to as deuterocanonical books by Roman Catholics referring to a later secondary canon. Most Protestants term these books as apocrypha. Evangelicals and those of the Modern Protestant traditions do not accept the deuterocanonical books as canonical, although Protestant Bibles included them in Apocrypha sections until around the 1820s. However, the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches include these books as part of their Old Testament. The Roman Catholic Church recognizes: Tobit, Judith, 1 & 2 Maccabees, Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach also called Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, The Letter of Jeremiah, Greek Additions to Esther, The Prayer of Azariah and Song of the Three Holy Children, Susanna, Bel and the DragonIn addition to those, the Greek and Russian Orthodox Churches recognize the following, 3 Maccabees, 1 Esdras, Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151
Some other Eastern Orthodox Churches include 2 Esdras i.e., Latin Esdras in the Russian and Georgian BiblesThere is also 4 Maccabees which is only accepted as canonical in the Georgian Church, but was included by St. Jerome in an appendix to the Vulgate, and is an appendix to the Greek Orthodox Bible, and it therefore sometimes included in collections of the Apocrypha.
This does list does not include the Gnostic books such as Thomas, Peter, Mary, and a few others.
So with all that confusion as to what should and shouldn’t be in the cannon, along with translation errors, and copying errors by scribes you want to say that our current Bible is 100 percent accurate.
 

Glorthac

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2009
704
40
✟1,085.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Republican
When ancient scribes copied earlier books, they wrote notes on the margins of the page to correct their text, you see they didn’t have microsoft word—especially if a scribe accidentally omitted a word or line—and to comment about the text. When later scribes were copying the copy, they were sometimes uncertain if a note was intended to be included as part of the text.


You mustn't understand: scholars (Dr. James White comes to mind) say this is a good thing. Because the scribes were more likely to add all possible renditions to the margin, rather than just choose one or the other, we are highly likely to have the original still. We just have to determine which rendition from the margin is the proper one. We do this through other forms of textual criticism, which I won't go into here.

Given a manuscript copy, several or many copies, but not the original document, the textual critic seeks to reconstruct the original text (the archetype or autograph) as closely as possible. The same processes can be used to attempt to reconstruct intermediate editions, or recessions, of a document's transcription history.The ultimate objective of the textual critic's work is the production of a "critical edition" containing a text most closely approximating the original. That implies that there is room for error. Not deliberate error but human error.


Possible, but not provable.

Much of [the Old Testament], such as genealogies, poems and stories, are thought to have been handed down by word of mouth for many generations. Don’t you think there is a little room for error there.

Unprovable. This is the theory of higher criticism, which has been shown to be highly presuppositional.

A number of books which are part of the Peshitta or Greek Septuagint but are not found in the Hebrew Bible are often referred to as deuterocanonical books by Roman Catholics referring to a later secondary canon.


I advise you to look into the Jewish Council of Jamnia. The reason why the Masoretic doesn't include the 'deuterocanonicals' is because this Council removed them. We catholics have the true Old Testament, the Jews have changed theirs.

This does list does not include the Gnostic books such as Thomas, Peter, Mary, and a few others.

Have you read these? I like the Gospel of the Egyptians the best, its hilarious!
 
Upvote 0

ShermanN

Regular Member
Feb 18, 2007
803
80
White House, TN
✟16,853.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
The TRUTH is a person, not a book. Paul notes that all scripture is inspired by God, profitable for instruction in rigteousness; and scripture itself doesn't claim "infallibility". Don't misunderstand me; I believe scripture is our primary physical current revelation of God and should be honored and respected as such. I view the revelation of God like a bullseye target. The bullseye is the Person of Jesus Christ, the perfect revelation of God in flesh, the word made flesh. The second ring is scripture (understood in it's original language and context - historical, cutural, literary, and authorial contexts). The third ring are the various translations of scripture. The fourth ring would be the writings of the church fathers. The fifth ring would be the writings of more contemporary but well respected church leaders like Calvin, Luther, Aminius, etc. The sixth ring are the writings of current leaders in the church whom I know and respect. The seventh ring are other believers who have revelations from the Lord though they are not written. The eighth ring are other writings of well respected leaders, not necessarily Christian. The last ring is creation itself for God can reveal truths to us even through creation itself if we are listening.

The Light of revelation is brightest and clearest at the center, but we can recieve revelation even from the ants and beasts of the field - if our hearts and minds are open to seeing it. If our hearts are closed by pride and self-righteousness though, even a personal encounter with Jesus will leave such a person revelationless - blind. And if our minds are closed, then no matter what information is presented to the contrary of our errant beliefs, we'll continue to cling to them and remain in our error.

Frankly, I do not expect "scripture" to be perfect or inerrant, much less my understanding of scripture; but I do look to God to reveal to me/us Him who is perfect and inerrant through scripture!

Many years ago I came to the conclusion that my faith should rest in God, and not in my own understanding, even my own understanding of scripture. I trust the Lord to teach me, to correct me, and lead me into His righteousness!
 
Upvote 0

PerrySB

Newbie
May 30, 2008
332
16
75
Just outside Yosemite Park
✟8,048.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Frankly, I do not expect "scripture" to be perfect or inerrant, much less my understanding of scripture; but I do look to God to reveal to me/us Him who is perfect and inerrant through scripture!

Many years ago I came to the conclusion that my faith should rest in God, and not in my own understanding, even my own understanding of scripture. I trust the Lord to teach me, to correct me, and lead me into His righteousness!

Your entire post makes more sense to me than anything I have ever read, thank you.
 
Upvote 0

wayseer

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2008
8,226
504
Maryborough, QLD, Australia
✟11,131.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
So with all that confusion as to what should and shouldn’t be in the cannon, along with translation errors, and copying errors by scribes you want to say that our current Bible is 100 percent accurate.

What do you mean by 'accurate'? Accurate in what? Accurately translated?

But then you bring in the notion of the canon of scripture. What does the canon have to do with accuracy?

Is the Bible the 'inspired' word of God? Yes. Does any deviation from an accurate translation make the Bible any less inspire? No.

Then there is the really BIG question. How would you know if you were reading an 'accurate' translation? How would you know if you were reading an 'inaccurate' translation?

How accurate do you want you clock? How accurate do you want to measure a distance between two points? How 'accurate' is your English?
 
Upvote 0

it'sme

Junior Member
Nov 27, 2009
730
11
✟8,441.00
Faith
Jehovahs Witness
Marital Status
Private
So a religeon based on faith, with a founding on faith automatically makes me wonder whats going on. I'm here to investigate into the pshycology of the christian belief and find out the mechanisms that keep you believeing and indoctrinate other people. thats what my account is for.

So here, Ive learned that one of the major mechanisms is heavily reinforced faith since childhood. You dont actually know for certian that what you believe is true, but you have somethin in your mind constantly reinforcing your belief, no matter how illogical or poorly backed up it may be. A mechanism that can do that to an otherwise logical neuro network is nothing short of powerfull. But i must see further what it is causing your faith. and I can't let you explain it to me. I wont listen to just you, for me to find out what it is I need to talk to alot of you people.
Science, when it comes to how life started and evolution also is based on faith. Because they can not show how life started and that evolution has any credence at all, many scientists, base their belief that in the future scientists will finally get the proof. That is what the world calls faith.

This is the bible definition of faith.
Hebrews 10:11 Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld. 2 For by means of this the men of old times had witness borne to them.

So real faith is not blind. In other words faith is based on the real evidence , which shows that something in the future will happen , there is no doubt.

So this has to be based on accurate knowledge.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

Actually there are many Christian churches, this tells you that they all can't be correct. And example of this if your country is at war with another, and both countries has Christians fighting for them, what side does God take?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

PerrySB

Newbie
May 30, 2008
332
16
75
Just outside Yosemite Park
✟8,048.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
So here, Ive learned that one of the major mechanisms is heavily reinforced faith since childhood. You dont actually know for certian that what you believe is true, but you have somethin in your mind constantly reinforcing your belief, no matter how illogical or poorly backed up it may be

Your findings are only partially accurate. Many do believe based on a blind faith others of us believe based on faith and circumstantial evidence. I was one of those raised with strong Christian influence that I began to question. I needed something more that just what was written in the Bible or any other religious writings.

The book “Evidence that demands a verdict” was the beginning of my search, however I still had questions and could still present solid arguments against basic Christian dogma. Then came a few scientist like Dr. Ham and a web sight “Reasons To Believe” and their findings and arguments blew Darwin right out of the water for me. With the realization that life needed to begin somewhere that presented a major problem. DNA cries out intelligent design, at least the way I see it, it is just too complex to be otherwise.

The final evidence that I needed I found in patients that had what is referred to as near death experiences. At first I challenged the circumstantial evidence that supported many of the testimonies of those who experienced them. However once I seen evidence from people that were brain dead (flat line) and the consistency in the testimonies I was forced to rethink my position. Along with that watching people die is very revealing as well, I know sounds somewhat gruesome but in reality is just a fact of life.

That brought me to the question, is there a creator and if so who is he really. Christianity is the only thing I found that seemed to hold any credibility. Now there is another aspect and one that is much more difficult to explain, and that is how the Holy Spirit actually begins to work in a persons life once they come to an understanding of who Christ is and a faith in his death and resurrection. He fulfilled prophecies that there was no way he could have if he had not been the son of God. It has been proven the prophesies were written long before he showed up on earth, making the argument that the prophesies were written to support the Christian cannon without merit.

Yes it does come down to a level of faith, but not a blind unfounded faith. What I found so simple about Christ teaching is it is based on love of God and love of our fellow man if it that is such distorted idea then what makes sense to you.
 
Upvote 0

student ad x

Senior Contributor
Feb 20, 2009
9,835
805
just outside the forrest
✟29,077.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
-MOD HAT ON-

239644-albums1818-20895.jpg


Howdy folks. Several atheist posts have been removed from this discussion. I've had to remove many responses to these posts in a cleanup of the thread.

-MOD HAT OFF-
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums