Is Observing the 7th day Sabbath a Requirement for Salvation?

BobRyan · Jan 11, 2017

corinth77777 said:
1 peter 3; 19-26...or so
Explains the Baptism that saves us now....And the Ark was A symbol of it....The answer to a clear conscience before God, found in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

indeed as 1 Peter 3 points out - -it is not the magic touch of sacramental waters to the skin... rather it is the "Appeal to God for a clean conscience" and as Romans 6 says - we identify with Christ's death and resurrection in baptism. Death to sin, risen in freedom from slavery to sin.

BobRyan · Jan 11, 2017

Shibolet said:
Please Kori, no offense meant but, Jesus is no longer in the condition to be the source of any thing if you read Ecclesiastes 9:5,6.

Eccl 9 argues against the modern concept of "immortal soul". So to that extent we do agree. However God is immortal as I think everyone agrees. The son of God in this case is not Adam who was fully human and not God incarnate - but in this case it is Jesus who is God-man -- fully God, fully man. "In him dwells all the fullness of the godhead in bodily form". Now it is certain that in Eccl 9 - Solomon is not talking about the God-man state of a person in death. Jesus said "I have power to lay down my life - and I have power to take it up again".

John 10:18 "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father."

Here is a claim that puts the one who makes it at risk being proven wrong - but He is saying that after His public execution... after he is in the tomb... on the third day... He will raise Himself from the dead. All they would have to do on the 4th day to prove Him wrong - is go to His tomb and say -- "see -- He is still there".

Notice that when Jesus was resurrected - both the Roman guards and the Jewish leaders opposed to Christ - agreed He was not in the tomb any longer on the 3rd day. And they both agreed that a Roman guard has stationed around the tomb to prevent that.

What is also clear is that his closes followers were 'hiding in the upper room for fear of the Jews" at this same time.

No human could raise himself. In the Tanakh (OT) you have Elisha raising people from the dead - but you don't have the dead raising themselves. That does not happen in all of scripture - except in the case of the God-man Jesus.

Shibolet said:
To HaShem there is no difference between modern and ancient. Immortality belongs with HaShem only. I am aware that the Son of God was not Adam but Israel if HaShem was telling the truth when He said, "Israel is My Son." (Exodus 4:22,23) Jesus was fully human and he was himself aware that HaShem is of an absolute Oneness. So, Jesus could not be God. Then, if Jesus had the power to lay down his life, why would he pray thrice in the Gethsemane asking HaShem not to have him walk the Via Dolorosa?

He does not say "walk the via dolorosa" -- He prays that "this cup might pass from him".

Christ points out that he could escape at any moment. If He chose to do so.

Matthew 26
47 While He was still speaking, behold, Judas, one of the twelve, came up accompanied by a large crowd with swords and clubs, who came from the chief priests and elders of the people. 48 Now he who was betraying Him gave them a sign, saying, “Whomever I kiss, He is the one; seize Him.” 49 Immediately Judas went to Jesus and said, “Hail, Rabbi!” and kissed Him. 50 And Jesus said to him, “Friend, do what you have come for.” Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and seized Him.

51 And behold, one of those who were with Jesus reached and drew out his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest and cut off his ear. 52 Then Jesus *said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword. 53 Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54 How then will the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that it must happen this way?”

John 18:11
11 So Jesus said to Peter, “Put the sword into the sheath; the cup which the Father has given Me, shall I not drink it?”

John 18
33 Therefore Pilate entered again into the Praetorium, and summoned Jesus and said to Him, “Are You the King of the Jews?” 34 Jesus answered, “Are you saying this on your own initiative, or did others tell you about Me?” 35 Pilate answered, “I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests delivered You to me; what have You done?” 36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” 37 Therefore Pilate said to Him, “So You are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

Matthew 16
21 From that time Jesus began to show His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised up on the third day. 22 Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You.” 23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s.”

=================

Jesus said that this event was the very reason He came to earth.

BobRyan · Jan 15, 2017

Bob S said:
I believe I have created my post in the wrong place. I would prefer it being in the SDA forum

Bob S said:
Yep, it was a save face made up excuse that satisfied the flock. Today it is a different story. Many are seeing through all the falsehood concocted since 1844 and are wearing out the hinges on the back doors of their churches.

This guy claims he still attends some unfortunate SDA church for the purpose of derailing them. "By their fruits" says Christ "you shall know them"

EastCoastRemnant · Jan 15, 2017

BobRyan said:
This guy claims he still attends some unfortunate SDA church for the purpose of derailing them. "By their fruits" says Christ "you shall know them"

An accuser of the brethren like his father...

jerry kelso · Jan 15, 2017

overcomer said:
If I may join into this discussion...

When you look at Col 2:16...the key phrase is 'in respect to'.

Look in Old Testament for every instance of 'holy days (set feasts), new moons and sabbaths, you'll find that they appeared 8 times. In every instance, it mentions sacrices and meal, drink offerings...

Now look at Col 2:16 again hopefully you'll see Paul was talking about the sacrices and offerings in connection or in respect to the set feasts, new moons and sabbaths.

They were shadows of Jesus being the real sacrifice. Not the sabbath commandment because it does not mention meal and drink (offerings).

overcomer,

1. I somehow missed your post and nobody answered after my last post.

2. Colossians 2:16; Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an Holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days.

3. Meat and drink are separate from the sabbaths by the word "or".
So this doesn't necessarily mean that the main sabbath is separated from the sabbath days of the specific feasts sabbath.
It also doesn't agree with Roman's 14:5-6.

3. Paul is saying; which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is Christ.
He is not talking about Jesus being the real sacrifice because he was speaking of the future of the church age. That is plain to see.
But the body is of Christ is a term that Paul talks about in 1Corinthians 12&14.
The church of today is the new covenant church which is the body of Christ and the Jewish nation was under the Mosaic law and the Old Covenant was not the body of Christ.

4. The physical KoH reign of Israel and the church age body of Christ is a fact. Isaiah 2:2-4; 9:6-7 & 2 Timothy 2:12.
This is all connected to the restitution of all things. Acts 3:19.
This millennial government will be a complete theocracy. There will be laws from the new covenant and the old covenant.
For example salvation will be under the new covenant not the law which could not save in the first place.
The Feast days of the Mosaic law were forever were not commanded for the church to keep in the church age.
The Mosaic law was one whole unit and was abolished at Calvary as one unit 2 Corinthians 3:1-16.
The law was meant forever for the Jews which was tied to their culture and life but under the new covenant.
The Jews still celebrate the feast days and they are to be at set times. They have sabbaths and yes the church do not have to celebrate them.
Hebrews 8:6-7 is about the Old covenant being replaced by the new covenant not just parts of it.
Actually, the new covenant Jews are a part of the church and don't have to keep the Saturday sabbath only and their are those that will keep sabbath days with Gentiles on Sunday etc. and yet Peter did things under the Jewish law that he didn't command the gentiles do because it was a yoke of bondage.
Jews can still be Jews under the new covenant and gentiles can still be gentiles under the new covenant. Jerry kelso

jerry kelso · Jan 16, 2017

Sabbathkeeper&Wife said:
I keep seeing "legalistic" again and again. How would that be the case when ALMIGHTY GOD carves 10 simple things in STONE with His own finger and the one, the only one that says REMEMBER, we are to forget? I don't think so. Not even if an angel of light showed up and told me face to face that Sunday is the new day. That part IS going to happen. For those who pay homage to Rome, it already has.

sabbathkeeper&wife,

1. SSDO is Saturday sabbath day only.

2. The Ten Commandments in itself are not legalistic. The moral law itself shows us God's character and Holiness and gives us the knowledge of sin and how much God hates sin.
Paul said the law was Holy and Good. However, the law was not always easy to do and it could not save a man's soul.
When man tries in self effort to attain the law he will fall short more than he will perform the commandment.
Romans 7 says the law of sin and death took advantage of the law that was holy and good and made them live in sin more than overcoming.
When Christ died the law of sin and death was done away with by the law of the Spirit.
This along with the availability of the Spirit without measure in us we have the better promises of the new covenant to do commandments because of Christ finished work on the Cross.
An example in daily life is how we raise our children.
They have to start out with the law because their brains can only assess much beyond that. Then we teach them why we do or don't do certain things. When they have been taught the moral law and made into a moral agent then they are ready to accept God generally speaking. When the moral law is who they are they will obey more out of love and because they want to please God and their parents.
If the child is just subdued by rules and regulations they will more times than not rebel. Why? Because it is not who they really are.
Put your feet in the Jews shoes who had to do 613 laws and more than 1000 statutes and commandments and having the law of sin and death being able to take advantage of you and you will understand why Peter said it was a yoke of bondage

3. Legalism still is prevalent today and in more than one way just like in the Old Testament days. Jesus had to deal withe the hypocrites who performed rituals of the law but with the wrong motive as in Matthew 6 with the alm giving and desiring to be seen of men.
Also in Matthew 15 Jesus had to deal with the commandments of men.

4. The law of Moses which the Ten Commandments were a part of were done away in the context of the law as a whole in it specific context for the children of Israel which was until the seed of Messiah should come Galatians 3:19.
Paul said in Ephesians 2 we were strangers to the covenant which was Moses.
Legalism is in subduing under does and don'ts, teaching Commandments of men such as personal convictions, and hypocrisy shown in wrong motive whether a commandment of God or commandments of men. Lack of knowledge and sin are still the culprits.

5. The remnant of Israel today are in the church and since the church will be raptured before the time of Jacob's trouble the earthly Jews left in the tribulation of the nation of Israel will be the sun clothed woman that flees into the wilderness and the remnant of her seed will be scattered and they will keep the commandments of God and the Antichrist will make war on them in Revelation 12. In Revelation 11 they are seen rejoicing as the two witnesses are raptured.

6. You can keep the Sabbath on Saturday only but it is not scriptural for the church age.
It can be your personal conviction if you like but you shouldn't browbeat people over the head and claim they are going to hell when that is scripturally not true. That is another form of legalism hiding behind the claim of being scriptural when it's not. And when it is done in the form of bible thumping it is legalistic whether it be biblical or unbiblical. In this case the SSDO is not biblical. Jerry kelso

EastCoastRemnant · Jan 16, 2017

jerry kelso said:
6. You can keep the Sabbath on Saturday only but it is not scriptural for the church age.
It can be your personal conviction if you like but you shouldn't browbeat people over the head and claim they are going to hell when that is scripturally not true. That is another form of legalism hiding behind the claim of being scriptural when it's not. And when it is done in the form of bible thumping it is legalistic whether it be biblical or unbiblical. In this case the SSDO is not biblical. Jerry kelso

You viewpoint on the Sabbath is as foolish as the pre trib rapture you dream of.

BobRyan · Jan 16, 2017

jerry kelso said:
6. You can keep the Sabbath on Saturday only but it is not scriptural for the church age.
It can be your personal conviction if you like but you shouldn't browbeat people over the head and claim they are going to hell when that is scripturally not true. That is another form of legalism hiding behind the claim of being scriptural when it's not. And when it is done in the form of bible thumping it is legalistic whether it be biblical or unbiblical. In this case the SSDO is not biblical. Jerry kelso

SLDNBSO is most certainlyh not Biblical.

But the Bible Sabbath - well as it turns out - that is Biblical.

"The SEVENTH day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) Thy God" Exodus 20:8-11

Believe his Word.

Hebrews 4:9 "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"
"From SABBATH to SABBATH shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 - for all eternity in the New Earth.

BobRyan · Jan 16, 2017

jerry kelso said:
2. The Ten Commandments in itself are not legalistic. The moral law itself shows us God's character and Holiness and gives us the knowledge of sin and how much God hates sin.

True.

It is wrong for the wicked to take God's name in vain - and it would be wrong for Christians to do it as well.

It is wrong for the wicked to break God's Bible Sabbath Commandment - and it is wrong for Christians to do it as well.

jerry kelso · Jan 17, 2017

EastCoastRemnant said:
You viewpoint on the Sabbath is as foolish as the pre trib rapture you dream of.[/QUOTE

eastcoastremnant,

1. Does your post name mean you believe the church is going to be in the time of Jacob's trouble? That is wrong!
Revelation 21:4 talks about those who didn't take the mark of the beast as being the ones resurrected in the first resurrection.
These are the same ones in chapter 15 who sang the song of Moses and the lamb.
There is no mention of another body comprised of living believers being raptured with the dead believers in Revelation 21:4-6.
The remnant in Revelation 11 & 12 is out of the Jewish nation for the sun clothed woman flees into the wilderness and the remnant of her seed is scattered etc.
In Revelation 11 account the Jewish remnant are praising God as the Two Witnesses go up.
I believe they are Enoch and Elijah though some believe they are Moses and Elijah or the Jewish 144,000 witnesses among other views.
Moses died and would be disqualified for that reason. The 144,000 are raptured after the time of Jacob's trouble and at a different time as the two witnesses.
Enoch and Elijah both have not died.
Enoch prophesied the second coming which is in conjunction with the physical KOH message. Even Jesus prayed, Thy Kingdom Come" which was the Physical KOH on earth. Revelation 1:7 says, they will see the one that they pierced. This will be the Jewish remnant.
Elijah went up into Heaven in a chariot of fire. His ministry is stated clearly in Malachi 4 where he will come before the great and dreadful day of the Lord to turn the hearts of the children to the hearts of the fathers lest he smites them with a curse.
Jesus said John the Baptist come in the spirit of Elijah. Jesus said before that, Elijah shall surely come and restore all things. This didn't happen with Joh the Baptist and neither was it the great and dreadful day of the Lord.
Jesus knew Israel would reject him and he knew about the purpose of the second coming concerning Israel and the restitution of all things.
Jesus knew the eternal covenants of Abraham and David that were specific to Israel concerning the KoH and the KOG.
The time of Jacob's trouble is for the Jews for they have to be purged Daniel 9:24-27 and not the church who Jesus said the gates of hell shall never prevail against them. Israel lost their savor and was trodden down under the feet of men. The true church of the body of Christ has never been trodden down under the feet of men. If you believe that you disagree with Christ.
So you are wrong about the pre-trib rapture and the sabbath because you don't understand the eternal plan of God to restore the physical KoH and its proper Jewish perspective on their eternal covenants as head of the nations etc.
Quit being so gentile and get some proper Jewish understanding about these things. Jerry kelso

jerry kelso · Jan 17, 2017

BobRyan said:
True.

It is wrong for the wicked to take God's name in vain - and it would be wrong for Christians to do it as well.

It is wrong for the wicked to break God's Bible Sabbath Commandment - and it is wrong for Christians to do it as well.

bobryan,

1. I believe in remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. It doesn't say anything about Saturday only.

2. It was Saturday only for the Jewish nation under the Old covenant of which the church is not under and was never under.

3. You say it wrong and according to your doctrine a major sin at that.
Because the sabbath day was a memorial of the deliverance from Egypt and a typical practice of rest in Christ to come it could be broken and has been broken many times without the committing of moral sin. Dake's God's Plan For Man pg. 584-585.

4. Israel leaving Egypt was established as their sabbath Number 33:3; Leviticus 23:5-11.
Israel marched around Jericho Joshua 6.
Set up the tabernacle Exodus 40:1, 17 with Leviticus 23:5-11.
Searched out Canaan Numbers 13:25.
Made war 1Kings 20:29, 2 Kings 3:9, Joshua 6.
Circumcised John 7:22-23.
David and priests of Old broke it and were guiltless Matthew 12:2-5. Dake's God's Plan For Man pg.585. Any of the moral laws broken in the Ten Commandments would have been morally guilty.
This is why the sabbath was a memorial to the Jews and of typical nature of the rest to come that couldn't be the reason the church would keep it for we were never delivered from Egyptian bondage.

5. We both believe in the Sabbath but you believe Saturday only which is not scriptural.

6. The creation 7th day was not the sabbath for man when God created and made the heavens and the earth in Adam's day and there is no proof in the Genesis text. Jerry kelso

BobRyan · Jan 17, 2017

jerry kelso said:
sabbathkeeper&wife,

1. SSDO is Saturday sabbath day only.

Does that mean "making stuff up - not allowed" ?

Or is it a claim that Exodus 20:8-11 identifies many weekly Sabbaths of which some folks pick just one?

Are you "imagining something for us"??

BobRyan · Jan 17, 2017

jerry kelso said:
sabbathkeeper&wife,

1. SSDO is Saturday sabbath day only.

2. The Ten Commandments in itself are not legalistic. The moral law itself shows us God's character and Holiness and gives us the knowledge of sin and how much God hates sin.

So then their statement about it being sin to take God's name in vain is "allowed" in your tradition?

Well that is great because we also admit that the Bible says that and God is certainly "allowed" to do that - since no man can dis-allow Him.

Paul said the law was Holy and Good.

True - even after the cross - the Law of God remains "Holy Just and good" .

And sinners remain "sinners" after the cross just as before.

"All the world" and "every mouth" shut and held accountable before God as sinners - even AFTER the cross - Romans 3:19-20 - all in need of a Savior, all need to accept the Gospel. Not a single person able to make it on their own - BEFORE the cross or AFTER.

BobRyan · Jan 17, 2017

jerry kelso said:
2. The Ten Commandments in itself are not legalistic. The moral law itself shows us God's character and Holiness and gives us the knowledge of sin and how much God hates sin.

True.

It is wrong for the wicked to take God's name in vain - and it would be wrong for Christians to do it as well.

It is wrong for the wicked to break God's Bible Sabbath Commandment - and it is wrong for Christians to do it as well.

jerry kelso said:
bobryan,

1. I believe in remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.

Nice - and do you say that because you "need" to delete/edit the rest of God's Sabbath commandment that you are not quoting?

For example "the SEVENTH day is the SABBATH of the LORD (YHWH) Thy God"??

- or do you simply mean that statement as a shorthand reference to ALL of it?

Here is ALL of it. Do you accept it ALL? Or do you fall into the problem of Mark 7:6-13?

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

It doesn't say anything about Saturday only.

bait-and-switch much?

Do you admit that sunday is the first day of the week - the day that Jesus was resurrected - and that Saturday is the 7th day of the week -- and that the "Seventh day is the SABBATH of the LORD Thy God"???

BobRyan · Jan 17, 2017

jerry kelso said:
2. It was Saturday only for the Jewish nation under the Old covenant of which the church is not under and was never under.

We both you know you "just made that up" and that if "Kelso were our Bible" we might be able to simply "quote you" for that statement of blind-faith.

But as Christians - we will have to stick with the actual Bible.

BobRyan · Jan 17, 2017

jerry kelso said:
3. You say it wrong and according to your doctrine a major sin at that.
Because the sabbath day was a memorial of the deliverance from Egypt

Let me help you - "again" so you wont remain stuck in the pit of "false accusation"

Here is what God's Word actually says "
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

Here is what God's Word actually says - "the seventh day is the Sabbath to the Lord your God.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

And we both know it.

HERE is what Gods' WORD says as preface to "Do not take God's name in vain"

1. And God spoke all these words:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
...
DO not take the name of the LORD your God in vain"

It is the SAME reference to egypt that we see in Deut 5 -- and we both know it.

The SAME reference as preface for
"Do not take God's name in vain"
"Honor your parents"
"Do not murder"

And we both know it.

The Deut 5 game you are trying to play does not work - because the detail you "hoped" would only preface the Sabbath in Deut 5 - also is preface for ALL TEN in Exodus 20... and is NOT an excuse to take God's name in vain.

We both know it.

And we both know this has been pointed out to you many times -- even though you keep circling back to this argument - as if you never read Exodus 20 or think we forgot Exodus 20.

Why keep doing that?

BobRyan · Jan 17, 2017

jerry kelso said:
5. We both believe in the Sabbath but you believe Saturday only which is not scriptural.

6. The creation 7th day was not the sabbath for man when God created and made the heavens and the earth in Adam's day

WE BOTH know you are just making that up while you "quote nothing" from the Bible that says it --

Here is what the Bible says "by contrast"

Exodus 20
8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Hint: your own pro-sunday scholars know that God's Word specifically points out the 7th day as the Sabbath.

jerry kelso · Jan 18, 2017

BobRyan said:
True.

It is wrong for the wicked to take God's name in vain - and it would be wrong for Christians to do it as well.

It is wrong for the wicked to break God's Bible Sabbath Commandment - and it is wrong for Christians to do it as well.

Nice - and do you say that because you "need" to delete/edit the rest of God's Sabbath commandment that you are not quoting?

For example "the SEVENTH day is the SABBATH of the LORD (YHWH) Thy God"??

- or do you simply mean that statement as a shorthand reference to ALL of it?

Here is ALL of it. Do you accept it ALL? Or do you fall into the problem of Mark 7:6-13?

8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

bait-and-switch much?

Do you admit that sunday is the first day of the week - the day that Jesus was resurrected - and that Saturday is the 7th day of the week -- and that the "Seventh day is the SABBATH of the LORD Thy God"???

bobryan,

1. Verse 8; the word Sabbath is talking about the Jewish sabbath.

2. The seventh day is the Jewish sabbath.

3. Verse 11 the seventh day (creation) was the Day God rested.

4. Jesus said the sabbath was made for man.
The seventh day is never referenced as or stated as the sabbath in these passages so one would understand when the sabbath day was instituted for man.

5. Definition of sabbath meaning rest and it was to be a picture of rest for Israel. This rest is a memorial to the deliverance out of Egypt and crossing the Red Sea.
They came out of Egypt on the sabbath so they were not resting on the sabbath to begin with. That is why it is a memorial of that day. It is the same principle like in 1 Corinthians 10:1-2 when it says they were baptized in the cloud and sea. This was about the Red Sea deliverance.
John 3:5; the Jew had to believe Jesus was Messiah and that he would forgive their sins and they would be born of Water and Spirit. The difference in avenue of the transformation of being born again would be understood from the Red Sea Deliverance the first time and the second time they would be delivered by the Spirit Ezekiel 36:26; a clean heart and a new spirit will I put within you.
Matthew 3:11 Jesus would baptize them in Christ he Holy Ghost and fire. Whose fan is in his hand and he will thoroughly purge his floor and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
This hasn't happened yet for the nation of Israel yet but it will the second time.
So the Red Sea was a very important part of Jewish typology for many things.

6. I already gave you the reason the sabbath is not moral and gave you or east coast remnant or sabbathkeeper&wife the scriptures on the sabbath being violated and no one being punished by a moral failure judgement. I have heard no reply.

7. Isaiah 66:23 is in the future for Israel will be at the head of the nations and administer both some old covenant laws and some new covenant laws.
For the most part some civil laws will be administered by Israel because God gave them these laws and Christ will rule with a rod of iron.
New Covenant commands will be things pertaining to the death and resurrection whereby we are saved by grace.
The Feasts will be memorials for they were instituted forever and the nations will have to go to Jerusalem to celebrate them.
We are not told what day the sabbath will be on in the kingdom.
Because the Lord arose on Sunday and Israel will be revived on the third day and the eighth day is associated with new beginnings the sabbath may be on the eighth day.

8. Colossians 2:16 shows the new moons, holy days and sabbath days being a shadow right now because the body is Christ which is Jews and gentiles in one body alike.
Right now the nation of Israel is backslidden and is out of covenant with God and will not change until the time of Jacob's trouble and will not be saved until the Day of the Lord at the battle of Armageddon when they shall look on him whom they have pierced Revelation 1:7.
You obviously don't know much about Jewish history of types.
You also refuse to keep Israel's earthly callings and eternal covenants concerning the kingdom and the restitution of all things separate from the church's heavenly calling.
These have to do with positions of rulership not anything to do with a different way to be saved for all have to be saved by the new covenant of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
The New Testament never says the sabbath is on Saturday only in this age. This is why it is a shadow in the church age and the body is Christ.
Bible thumping results in condemnation. Romans 8:1; There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. Jerry kelso

reddogs · Jan 18, 2017

jerry kelso said:
bobs,

1. It is sad to think that people get wrapped up into wrong exegesis and because of lack of knowledge of gradual revelation and of what the cross brought and ended.
2. Paul said in 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 talks about reaping and sowing according to the purpose of the heart, not grudgingly or of NECESSITY.
SDA make the sabbath only on saturdays is couched under the idea of obeying the commandments when there motive is really out of necessity because they have to in order to be saved or to be blessed such as reaping and sowing.
3. Under the Mosaic law was a necessity to obey the commandments because they were under the blessing and cursing system under the Mosaic covenant. The church is not under this system and the 10 commandments were abolished at calvary 2 Corinthians 3:1-16.

4. They will use God creating and taking the sabbath. That was under the law of Moses of which gentiles were never under to begin with.
Paul said, let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday or of the new moon or of the sabbath day. Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, And not holding the head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Wherefore, if ye be dead with Christ froim the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will-worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. Colossians 2:16-23l; Galatians 4:3,9. Men's doctrines have to do with doing by fleshly means and Christ is into being who we are in Christ to do commandments of his truth and Godly means and not fleshly means.

5. No matter how well meaning a SDA may be it is a false teaching that is fleshly and hidden behind obedience to God when it is really out of necessity and which is contrary to new testament doctrine.
I am glad you exposed the truth about Ellen White for many don't know and don't understand. Keep posting and God bless! Jerry Kelso

If you didn't know then it would be different...
Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

But the Bible is crystal clear on this...

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

reddogs · Jan 18, 2017

As Seventh Day Adventist, it has fallen on us to bring back this truth to others, and we are told in the SOP how important it will be...

“. . . And at the commencement of the time of trouble, we were filled with the Holy Ghost as we went forth and proclaimed the Sabbath more fully. This enraged the churches and nominal Adventists, as they could not refute the Sabbath truth. And at this time God's chosen all saw clearly that we had the truth, and they came out and endured the persecution with us.” CET 93

Will their message be completely new and different?

The message will be the same that God called Adventists out to bear; the Three Angel’s Messages and also addition light will be added to make a message that will lighten the earth during the Loud Cry.

“I saw that the holy Sabbath is, and will be, the separating wall between the true Israel of God and unbelievers; and that the Sabbath is the great question to unite the hearts of God's dear, waiting saints.”

“I saw that God had children who do not see and keep the Sabbath. They have not rejected the light upon it. And at the commencement of the time of trouble, we were filled with the Holy Ghost as we went forth and proclaimed the Sabbath more fully. This enraged the churches and nominal Adventists, as they could not refute the Sabbath truth. And at this time God's chosen all saw clearly that we had the truth, and they came out and endured the persecution with us. I saw the sword, famine, pestilence, and great confusion in the land. The wicked thought that we had brought the judgments upon them, and they rose up and took counsel to rid the earth of us, thinking that then the evil would be stayed.” CET 93.

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