Is Objectivism a cult?

[WorshipBassist]

Objectivism, the philosophical school based on the writings of Ayn Rand, I've often heard referred to as a cult.

I LOVE reading Ayn Rand's books and love reading about Objectivism, and I am now really worried I'm getting mixed up in something pretty dodgy.

 

[BobW188]

Insofar as I know, there is no Rand "cult," though the more we learn about her later life the more we could argue there was a small one, her immediate circle. Some of these, (Nathaniel Branden for one), parted company with both her and much of Objectivism during her lifetime.
Our Libertarian Party includes many "Randites." They've been known to pull some goofy campaign stunts; but "cult" would be a stretch.
She was a powerful writer; to my mind at her best in We The Living, Anthem and The Fountainhead; but I've always thought Howard Roark would've found John Galt, Francisco d'Anconia, Dagny Taggart and the others of Atlas Shrugged to have gone overboard.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Objectivism, the philosophical school based on the writings of Ayn Rand, I've often heard referred to as a cult.

Okay, first off, a philosophy cannot be a cult. A philosophy is a set of ideas and their justifications. Only an organization can be a cult.

And I don't think that even the most rabid critics of Objectivism have claimed that Ayn Rand was less than honest in developing her philosophy. They all agree that Ayn Rand was expressing her honest views regarding metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, politics, and aesthetics. None of them have claimed that she developed her views expressly to form a cult.

That said, I personally think that the Ayn Rand Institute is a bit cultish in that they don't seem to deal well with intellectual tolerance. (E.g., you might have difficultly joining their organization if you are a member of the Libertarian Party, which they don't consider Objectivist enough.) However, I think it would be a huge stretch to call it a cult in the same way that the Moonies or the Church of Scientology might be thought of as a cult. The ARI isn't out to clean out your bank account or use brainwashing techniques on you. They are completely harmless in that sense.

There are many good organizations out there that are inspired by Objectivism that are very uncultish. Examples are: The Atlas Society and the Fellowship of Reason. I recommend that you check these out directly and judge for yourself.

I LOVE reading Ayn Rand's books and love reading about Objectivism, and I am now really worried I'm getting mixed up in something pretty dodgy.

It's always a good idea to be prudent, but there's no need to jump at shadows. You can easily find good Objectivist groups to associate with, if that is what you want.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Okay, first off, a philosophy cannot be a cult. A philosophy is a set of ideas and their justifications. Only an organization can be a cult.

uhhh...
A set of ideas and justifications...it's that what a cult or religion is???

 

[ragarth]

uhhh...
A set of ideas and justifications...it's that what a cult or religion is???

No, a cult or a religion is an organization, a body of people. A set of ideas is just a set of ideas. Ergo, you can build a cult around objectivism, but objectivism is not a cult in and of itself.

Interesting thought: The Church of Scientology itself is a cult, Scientology however is not. If I were to go out and start an opposition religion to Scientology that strips out the cult-aspects, we would hypothetically believe the same thing (Xenu, volcanoes, etc) but they would be a cult and we would not be.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

No, a cult or a religion is an organization, a body of people. A set of ideas is just a set of ideas. Ergo, you can build a cult around objectivism, but objectivism is not a cult in and of itself.

As soon as 2 people sit down to talk about it (like we are right now) it has officially become a cult meeting.

Hello fellow brethren of objectivism!!

 

[ragarth]

As soon as 2 people sit down to talk about it (like we are right now) it has officially become a cult meeting.

Hello fellow brethren of objectivism!!

No, we are the cult, objectivism is the idea.

 

[The Nihilist]

I think a good joke would be to act like Mark is a cultist.

 

[WorshipBassist]

Okay, first off, a philosophy cannot be a cult. A philosophy is a set of ideas and their justifications. Only an organization can be a cult.

And I don't think that even the most rabid critics of Objectivism have claimed that Ayn Rand was less than honest in developing her philosophy. They all agree that Ayn Rand was expressing her honest views regarding metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, politics, and aesthetics. None of them have claimed that she developed her views expressly to form a cult.

But couldn't someone argue that ANY cult's ideas are (in the mind of their writer) honest?

That said, I personally think that the Ayn Rand Institute is a bit cultish in that they don't seem to deal well with intellectual tolerance. (E.g., you might have difficultly joining their organization if you are a member of the Libertarian Party, which they don't consider Objectivist enough.) However, I think it would be a huge stretch to call it a cult in the same way that the Moonies or the Church of Scientology might be thought of as a cult. The ARI isn't out to clean out your bank account or use brainwashing
techniques on you. They are completely harmless in that sense.

This is the major issue that people have with Objectivism- it can't accept anything but total acceptance.

Also, what about the Collective?

There are many good organizations out there that are inspired by Objectivism that are very uncultish. Examples are: The Atlas Society and the Fellowship of Reason. I recommend that you check these out directly and judge for yourself.
It's always a good idea to be prudent, but there's no need to jump at shadows. You can easily find good Objectivist groups to associate with, if that is what you want.
eudaimonia,

Mark

Thank you very much!

 

[Eudaimonist]

This is the major issue that people have with Objectivism- it can't accept anything but total acceptance.

I recommend you read the following book, which is specifically on the subject of whether or not Objectivism supports intellectual toleration:

The Contested Legacy of Ayn Rand: Truth and Toleration in Objectivism, by David Kelley

You'll see that there is more to this issue than meets the eye.

Also, what about the Collective?

What about it? The Collective is history. It's no more. It's an ex-Collective.

The Collective has no relevance today. People who talk about the Collective are just trying to dredge up the past to scare people away from Objectivism today.

The Collective was basically Ayn Rand's inner circle. It was no more a cult than Sigmund Freud's inner circle of psychologists was a cult, and Freud had his "dogmas" that he wished to preserve in psychology (see Carl Jung's comments on this), and Freud was denouncing this or that psychologist. Are you going to be scared away from Freudianism now? Is the field of psychiatry, or at least Freudian psychiatry, a "cult"? Or will you simply judge Freudianism based on its ideas and their applicability to reality?

If Ayn Rand's Collective was a cult, then Sigmund Freud's inner circle was a cult too, and Sigmund Freud was a cult leader.

But no one is this consistent in their classifications when they hate a particular intellectual with a passion. This is what Ayn Rand faces. (I suppose Sigmund Freud faces the same thing as well. Scientologists speak of psychiatrists like they are the villians of the world.)

Thank you very much!

Sure thing.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[WorshipBassist]

Thanks!

 

[Crookshank]

Christianity is a cult. Every religion is a cult.

 

[WorshipBassist]

Christianity is a cult. Every religion is a cult.

Define religion. Anything can be a religion in some ways.

 

[hwalker7777]

Our Libertarian Party includes many "Randites."

More like "Randroids"!

That being said, I wouldn't really call them a cult. They're just atheists who don't like paying taxes. kind of like Republicans, except they don't believe in God.

 

[Eudaimonist]

They're just atheists who don't like paying taxes.

That's oversimplifying. There's quite a bit more to it than that.

At the very least, they are people who are in favor of free markets, and who don't want the government to be an needless burden on entrepreneurs or anyone else.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Blackmarch]

Objectivism, the philosophical school based on the writings of Ayn Rand, I've often heard referred to as a cult.

I LOVE reading Ayn Rand's books and love reading about Objectivism, and I am now really worried I'm getting mixed up in something pretty dodgy.

Hmm I do not know much about Ayn Rand.
Just keep your eyes open as you go. Avoid anything that seems suspicious, use what you find to be good and helpful. usually a set of principles, especially ones of worth won't be limited to just one group.


I think the word cult is most likely the most misused and abused word in religious circles;

Cult
–noun 1.a particular [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]system[/FONT][/FONT] of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2.an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3.the object of such devotion.
4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5.Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6.a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7.the members of such a religion or sect.
8.any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
–adjective
9.of or pertaining to a cult.
10.of, for, or attracting a small group of devotees: a cult [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]movie[/FONT][/FONT].

Origin:
1610&#8211;20; < L cultus habitation, tilling, refinement, worship, equiv. to cul-, var. s. of colere to inhabit, till, worship + -tus suffix of v. action

 

[dewaddict84]

I would say that Ayn had a cult. It would most definitely be called an "inner-circle' by any measurement, but since it revolved around her philosophy and applied to many facets of the groups lives, I'd say that earned it cult status. I thought it fell apart after someone slept with someone and Ayn got uh, dramatic.


Of course, that's old hat and I don't know much about the institute. But it's largely unneeded as the rich don't need a philosophy to justify their greed.

 

[JGL53]

Though I am an atheist, I think a person would probably be better off being some sort of mainstream Christian than being a Randroid.

It would be more rational.



Anyway, according to your icons your affiliations are Baptist and Labour. You couldn't be more unqualified to be a Randroid unless you were a communist or a Quaker.