• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Is not honoring the sabbath a sin?

jarrettcpr

Newbie
Jun 3, 2009
271
6
✟22,934.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private

I don't disagree. Though God himself doesn't change, it would be wrong for us to say the things in the OT did not change.

Eye for an eye was one example. Another would be not taking oaths, vows, and to not swear but let your yes be a yes and your no be a no.

Stryder06 might call that a provision, I call it a change. Though it was God's intention to do so all along. But nonetheless it is a change.

Here are some definitions that Webster has...

:to make different in some particular : alter; transform
:to give a different position, course, or direction to
:to replace with another
:to make a shift
:to pass from one phase to another
:to undergo transformation, transition, or substitution <winter changed to spring>
synonyms change, alter, vary, modify mean to make or become different.


Same goes with the sacrificial system... it has changed. Though IMO technically it has transformed. Jesus is the final sacrifice. I also beleive the same in regards with the Sabbath. The Sabbath has transformed and Jesus is our rest.

I never once have cursed the Sabbath, nor do I oppose those who do keep the Sabbath is in the day.
 
Upvote 0

CalmRon

Senior Member
Aug 20, 2009
654
72
Western New York
✟23,747.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
the sacrificial system was added because of trangression, christ abolished it when he became our perfect sacrifice. but sabbath wasn't ceremonial it wasn't added later because of trangression rather the ceremonial sacrificial system added because of the transgression of laws like the sabbath law. I don't believe that the sabbath was done away with or transformed, while I believe christ is our rest I don't believe that the sabbath was symbolic of him- because when this specific command was given it reference creation, it never mention the future things nor is it regarded as a shadow. in the OT it is regarded as a sanctifying mark, a perpetual sign of covenant between God and his people.

as I have mention the purpose of the eye for an eye principle was to impress on the israelites the depths of God's hatred of sin and his desire to sanctify them against evil and injustice. they serve now as warnings and goads for us as christian and remind us that to God we are accountable above all (1 corinthians 10) so we don't or at least shouldn't feel the need to fear an eye for an eye retribution from our fellow christians, as the purpose of that has passed.
 
Upvote 0

Stryder06

Check the signature
Jan 9, 2009
13,856
519
✟39,439.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
But God said that He doesn't change. So how do you reconcille(sp?) that?

I can now argue that the Sabbath has also changed though I call it a transformation. I view the Sabbath differently than Sabbatarians. Christ Jesus is my Sabbath. For he is the Lord of the Sabbath and my rest is in him.

Where does this sabbath change occur though? Even if you do believe that God 'changes' you have evidence of Him making the change. No such evidence is available to support a change in the day of worship.
 
Upvote 0

CalmRon

Senior Member
Aug 20, 2009
654
72
Western New York
✟23,747.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others

the change being spoken of is a matter of interpretation.
 
Upvote 0

Stryder06

Check the signature
Jan 9, 2009
13,856
519
✟39,439.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
the change being spoken of is a matter of interpretation.

I'd like to think that it's more of a matter of taking God at His word and trusting Him. I think we all agree that God makes changes in how He deals with us. But when He say that He doesn't change, I think that means that His character, who He is, will never change.

And the law if a reflection of His character. The law is no more able to change than God is.
 
Upvote 0

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,587
1,245
44
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others

Keeping the Sabbath holy means doing God's work. It doesn't mean drop everything, don't go to your job, and contemplate God all day long.

It isn't a sin to go to your job or fix something on Saturday. Then again, choosing to rest on Saturday isn't necessarily sinful either, unless you get doctrinal about it.
 
Upvote 0

Cribstyl

Veteran
Jun 13, 2006
8,993
2,069
✟115,961.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
I agree with this statement, but I'm sure we have different doctrines to teach.
 
Upvote 0

Stryder06

Check the signature
Jan 9, 2009
13,856
519
✟39,439.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Good post. Jesus never asked Gentiles to observe ritual Saturday worship.

"Nor thy neighbor that is within thy gates..."

Not to mention the gentiles in Acts that kept the sabbath.

And of course I guess Jesus is suppose to be our example in everything else, except for how we worship.
 
Upvote 0

TheCatholic

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2009
752
38
At the Vatican in spirit
✟1,083.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
How does one keep the sabbath holy? When you say holy you mean as "set apart" correct?

Simple. You honor the "meaning" and the "intent" of the commandment. You do NOT keep it holy just by observing ritual Jewish Saturday observances:

II. THE LORD'S DAY

This is the day which the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.103

The day of the Resurrection: the new creation

2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:


We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.106

Sunday- fulfillment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107


Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.



104 Cf. Mt 28:1; Mk 16:2; Lk 24:1; Jn 20:1.
105 Cf. Mk 16:1; Mt 28:1.
106 St. Justin, I Apol. 67: PG 6, 429 and 432.
107 Cf. 1 Cor 10:11.
108 St. Ignatius of Antioch, Ad Magn. 9, 1: SCh 10, 88.
109 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II 122, 4.
 
Upvote 0

Stryder06

Check the signature
Jan 9, 2009
13,856
519
✟39,439.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Simple. You honor the "meaning" and the "intent" of the commandment. You do NOT keep it holy just by observing ritual Jewish Saturday observances: -snip-

Not so simple, because this is incorrect. At no time does the bible say that we are to keep the "meaning and intent" of the sabbath. We aren't even told to honor the sabbath. We are told to Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy. And you're right, no service will keep the sabbath holy in and of itself. It's about building relationship with God. We look to the Savior and reflect on what He has done for us.

To do this on Sunday is nothing short of disrespect to God. Man has essentially said "Lord how bout we do it this way."

Tell me, how do you keep the day holy? Is it ok to go shopping, or to the movies? Is it fine to go home, kick off your shoes and watch the game?

The sabbath has been totally trampled and even those who say Sunday is the new sabbath still don't keep that day holy.
 
Upvote 0

TheCatholic

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2009
752
38
At the Vatican in spirit
✟1,083.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
......To do this on Sunday is nothing short of disrespect to God.......

And in one, massive, general judgemental sweep you accuse all Christians of disrespecting God. Amazing. I honor Christ by recognizing his fullfillment of your Jewish rituals.


......Tell me, how do you keep the day holy?.....
By obeying his command at the Last Supper: "Do this in memory of me".
You see, I fiollow Jesus, not your OT rituals.
 
Upvote 0

ThomasDa

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2007
1,197
101
✟1,858.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

I hate to state the obvious, but you make it so easy that I can't resist.
God never calls His Sabbath a Jewish ritual.

During the "Last Supper" Jesus was explaining the way to observe the Passover from then on. The Passover is a once a year memorial keep on the evening of Abib 14.
 
Upvote 0

Stryder06

Check the signature
Jan 9, 2009
13,856
519
✟39,439.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
And in one, massive, general judgemental sweep you accuse all Christians of disrespecting God. Amazing. I honor Christ by recognizing his fullfillment of your Jewish rituals.

Matthew 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

I'm not judging because all Christians don't know that Sunday isn't the day they should be worshiping on. There are those who do know but think it doesn't matter.

You say you honor God by recognizing His fulfillment of my Jewish ritual. Tell me, when did the sabbath become a Jewish ritual? How can you honor God by not doing what He asked you to do, but instead telling Him that you're going to worship on a day and declare a day holy that He never made holy?

By obeying his command at the Last Supper: "Do this in memory of me".
You see, I follow Jesus, not your OT rituals.

Do this in memory of me was talking about communion, not the sabbath. We keep communion also. And if anything, this (the Lord's supper) would be a Jewish custom as I don't recall anyone commanding the gentiles to take of the Lord's supper. Of course Paul speaks to them about being pure before taking communion, but the command was never given.

The sabbath is a memorial to creation. There is no getting around that.
 
Upvote 0

TheCatholic

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2009
752
38
At the Vatican in spirit
✟1,083.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
God never calls His Sabbath a Jewish ritual.

But observing it on Saturday IS a Jewish ritual, introduced by Moses.

And please don't say God introduced it in Genesis 1. The earth was created over millions of years, not six days
 
Upvote 0

Stryder06

Check the signature
Jan 9, 2009
13,856
519
✟39,439.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
But observing it on Saturday IS a Jewish ritual, introduced by Moses.
Wrong

And please don't say God introduced it in Genesis 1. The earth was created over millions of years, not six days

Ok, how about it was introduced by God (did you catch the switch of words there ) in Genesis one. It is than reiterated in the fourth commandment. For in six days the Lord created the heavens and the earth..." It doesn't say millions of years.

So do we take man's word over Gods? We've been here before. You throw out Genesis one (which is very interesting since it is the beginning of all things) than where do we stop? Was there really an exodus? Was there really a Moses that really received the ten commandments? Or is it all just story concocted by man?
 
Upvote 0

ThomasDa

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2007
1,197
101
✟1,858.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
But observing it on Saturday IS a Jewish ritual, introduced by Moses.

And please don't say God introduced it in Genesis 1. The earth was created over millions of years, not six days

I know, I know don't confuse you with any facts.
 
Upvote 0