Is nationalism a sin?

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

What is your opinion about nationalism and patriotism towards your country of origin or your country of citizenship?

Do you consider pride in your homeland a sin for which God will punish you?

Is dying for your motherland a sin?

 

[arunma]

What is your opinion about nationalism and patriotism towards your country of origin or your country of citizenship?

I think nationalism is a very bad idea, and it should be avoided.

Do you consider pride in your homeland a sin for which God will punish you?

I think nationalistic pride is usually a sin. And of course God punishes all sin.

Is dying for your motherland a sin?

No, I don't think that's sinful, if done for the right reasons.

 

[Blackmarch]

What is your opinion about nationalism and patriotism towards your country of origin or your country of citizenship?

Do you consider pride in your homeland a sin for which God will punish you?

Is dying for your motherland a sin?

this one thinks there are 2 kinds- 1) The nationalism that comes from the pride that causes you to focus on yourself, at the dispense of others. this is not good.


2) the Kind that comes from being proud/honored of where you are from, that causes you to bring honor and respect to it. This is preferred.

 

[xenia]

Extreme nationalism can be a form of idolatry, but it is only natural for people to love their homeland. Like all good things, patriotism can be carried to a sinful extreme.

 

[ServantofTheOne]

nationalism in islam is sinful. The prophet Muhammad(pbuh) taught us that it is a rotten concept and to stay away from it. nationalislm and tribalism has caused nothing but wars, destruction, oppression, etc. the whole concept of "otherness" is a corrupt value.

prophet Muhammad(pbuh) is reported to have said:
"There are indeed people who boast of their dead ancestors; but in the sight
of Allah they are more contemptible than the black beetle that rolls a piece
of dung with its nose. Behold, Allah has removed from you the arrogance of
the Time of Jahiliyyah (Ignorance) with its boast of ancestral glories. Man
is but an Allah-fearing believer or an unfortunate sinner. All people are
the children of Adam, and Adam was created out of dust."

indeed all of humanity is one big family, we should adopt values of unification rather than exclusion.

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

nationalism in islam is sinful. The prophet Muhammad(pbuh) taught us that it is a rotten concept and to stay away from it. nationalislm and tribalism has caused nothing but wars, destruction, oppression, etc. the whole concept of "otherness" is a corrupt value.

Nationalism cannot even compare with theocracy when it comes to war, oppression and destruction.

People fighting in the name of nation are atleast honest and open as compared to those fighting in the name of God.

 

[markie4u2001]

I don't know if I know what you mean by nationalism but I think taking pride in ones country is a good thing. It can be taken to extremes like anything else but I'm proud to be an American, I don't understand how being patriotic can be considered a sin.

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

I don't know if I know what you mean by nationalism but I think taking pride in ones country is a good thing. It can be taken to extremes like anything else but I'm proud to be an American, I don't understand how being patriotic can be considered a sin.

Of course I never meant the extreme version.

My question can be put this way: Will you act against your motherland(fellow countrymen) if you think it is right in the eyes of your God?

 

[Arthra]

I take a more cynical view of nationalism and dying for one's country...

Nationalism, fundamentalism and racism all seem to be playing a part in spawning divisiveness and conflict in our world.

In many quarters those with more liberal enightened attitudes that work for peace and race unity are shouted down, suppressed or at best simply ignored.

Nationalism with it's handmaiden of regressive fundamentalism in short xenophobia, also spawns greater materialism and greater class conflict.

Meanwhile the universal values of religion today are working toward establishing a foundation for world peace.

Many have died for their Fatherland or their Motherland and the only ground they've succeeded in holding is six feet under. Wars are often enterprises to test out new weapon systems and acquire more raw materials for industry or fuel sources.

From the Baha'i Writings:

O kings of the earth! We see you increasing every year your expenditures, and laying the burden thereof on your subjects. This, verily, is wholly and grossly unjust. Fear the sighs and tears of this Wronged One, and lay not excessive burdens on your peoples. Do not rob them to rear palaces for yourselves; nay rather choose for them that which ye choose for yourselves. Thus We unfold to your eyes that which profiteth you, if ye but perceive. Your people are your treasures. Beware lest your rule violate the commandments of God, and ye deliver your wards to the hands of the robber. By them ye rule, by their means ye subsist, by their aid ye conquer. Yet, how disdainfull ye look upon them! How strange, how very strange! - Baha'u'llah

The apparatus of conflict will, as preparations go on at their present rate, reach the point where war will become something intolerable to mankind.

*It is clear from what has already been said that man's glory and greatness do not consist in his being avid for blood and sharp of claw, in tearing down cities and spreading havoc, in butchering armed forces and civilians. What would mean a bright future for him would be his reputation for justice, his kindness to the entire population whether high or low, his building up countries and cities, villages and districts, his making life easy, peaceful and happy for his fellow beings, his laying down fundamental principles for progress, his raising the standards and increasing the wealth of the entire population.

- Abdul-Baha

 

[Amongst the Flock]

What is your opinion about nationalism and patriotism towards your country of origin or your country of citizenship?

Do you consider pride in your homeland a sin for which God will punish you?

Is dying for your motherland a sin?

All forms of Pride are a sin except for being proud of the Holy Trinity. Having pride in Jesus in what he is doing in your life after you come to salvation and are obedient to him as Lord and Savior is allowed.

It is ok to be thankful for where you live especially when you see the poverty in third world countries. Alot of us don't know how good we have it.

The only prideful death as a Christian would be to be a Martyr for your belief in Jesus and to stand by your beliefs as a Christian.

Since this is the non-christian religion forum I guess this won't relate to most but if anyone comes to salvation through Jesus then it will.

John 3:5 No man can enter into the Kingdom of God unless he is born again of water and spirit.

Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else. There is no other name under heaven which is given to man by which we must be saved.

Romans 8:1-2 There is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the spirit of Life set me free from the law of Sin and Death.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that he sent his only son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world but to save the world through him.

Romans 3:22 The righteousness of God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

Romans 8:37-39 In all these things we are more then conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither heigth nor depth nor anything in all of creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God which transcends all understanding will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Anyone that is in Christ is a new creation, the old things have passed away and the new has come.

2 Thessalonians 3:3 The lord our God is Faithful, he will strengthen us and proctect us from the enemy.

Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and I am obedient to his perfect will.

 

[Arthra]

My question can be put this way: Will you act against your motherland(fellow countrymen) if you think it is right in the eyes of your God?

In my religion we don't "act against" our motherland or fatherland...we support order and tranquility. We take a non-partisan position to partisan political matters. By requesting non-combatant roles we seek to avoid being drawn into active combat. So We feel we are acting for our country in avoiding conflict and by taking a non-partisan role.

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

Haven't many more died for their Father in heaven?

I look at it from an Indian perspective.

In North East India, many people are fighting for a separate homeland, why? Because they want to establish a Christian nation!!

In Kashmir, they are planting bombs and killing innocent civilians? why? because they want to live in a land where the Sharia is the law!!

It is really amusing that people find fault with reasonable nationalism(without any fundamentalist or racial strings attached).

Is forgetting religious differences for the national good something to be looked down upon?

When I use the word "nationalism", it is my hope and prayer that no one conjures up a Hitler or a Bismarck or a Mussolini.

Why can't you think of a Gandhi? He was a nationalist to the core. He did not want freedom for a Hindu India or a Muslim India. He just wanted freedom for India, no strings attached.

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

And during the partition of India, religious differences led to the death of 500,000 human beings who belonged to the same race!!


So much for religion and world peace!

 

[Amongst the Flock]

I see your point in nationalism to benifit everyone in the long run but to kill and to murder people to get it done is not right. To accomplish it through peace is admirable but often a lengthy process.

 

[arunma]

My question can be put this way: Will you act against your motherland(fellow countrymen) if you think it is right in the eyes of your God?

Yes. America supports many non-Christian things, including abortion, capitalistic greed, decadence, atheism (fondly termed "secularism"), and war. Christians should fight against these things. It just so happens that bombing abortion clinics or establishing communist states isn't a valid way to fight.

It is ok to be thankful for where you live especially when you see the poverty in third world countries. Alot of us don't know how good we have it.

Yes, we should be thankful. I'm certainly thankful to live in America. But I don't consider America a Christian nation, and I don't think our country speaks for God, nor do I think our president or congressmen are godly individuals.

I am often disturbed by the phrase "serve God and country." Service to God is something we do out of love for the creator. Service to our country is something we do because we are obligated to do it. Those two types of service shouldn't be compared.

In North East India, many people are fighting for a separate homeland, why? Because they want to establish a Christian nation!!

Yes, I'm aware of this. It's near Nagaland, right? I wish them luck, because if those guys actually read their Bibles, they'd see that the Scriptures provide absolutely no prescription for Christian government. There's no such thing as "Christian law," and it's impossible to form a Christian theocracy. In fact, we're supposed to obey the laws of the governments under which we live. This principle is so important that Saint Paul and Saint Peter both write about it in their epistles. The command to obey the laws of the governments effectively rule out the notion of a "Christian nation." The only Christian nation is God's Israel (not the political state in Palestine, but the church). And that nation is spread across the entire world.

It is really amusing that people find fault with reasonable nationalism(without any fundamentalist or racial strings attached).

There's a big difference between submitting to secular laws, and having pride for one's nation. Nationalism is idol-worship. If you don't believe me, just look at extremist Christians like Pat Robertson and Tim LaHaye. The nutcase LaHaye once said "if you cut me, I'll bleed red, white, and blue." He could have said that he'll bleed with the blood of Christ, but I suppose such a statement shows where his true loyalties lie.

When we Christians say Iesous Kurios (Greek for "Jesus is Lord"), thar rules out other lords. The Caesar in Rome wasn't Saint Paul's Lord, and neither is President Bush our Lord. God has raised up such people, and he will strike them down on the last day. We obey such people because it is our earthly responsibility to obey secular rulers. But we only have one Master, and one Father.

Is forgetting religious differences for the national good something to be looked down upon?

Nationalism can cause division as well. Just look at the world's hatred of America.

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

Yes. America supports many non-Christian things, including abortion, capitalistic greed, decadence, atheism (fondly termed "secularism"), and war. Christians should fight against these things. It just so happens that bombing abortion clinics or establishing communist states isn't a valid way to fight.

I was thinking secularism meant pro-Islam, pro-Christian, pro-communist and anti-Hindu. Oh well, I was looking at it from the indian context.

I agree bombing is not a valid way to fight.

And fighting decadence is not fighting against one's country because it is not the country which supports decadent tendencies. Decadent behavior is unavoidable in any civilized society and one can't blame the country for it.

I am often disturbed by the phrase "serve God and country." Service to God is something we do out of love for the creator. Service to our country is something we do because we are obligated to do it. Those two types of service shouldn't be compared.

I would serve my country out of love for it. It might sound odd but that is the truth. Serving my country is out of love. Not betraying my country is an obligation.

Yes, I'm aware of this. It's near Nagaland, right? I wish them luck, because if those guys actually read their Bibles, they'd see that the Scriptures provide absolutely no prescription for Christian government. There's no such thing as "Christian law," and it's impossible to form a Christian theocracy. In fact, we're supposed to obey the laws of the governments under which we live. This principle is so important that Saint Paul and Saint Peter both write about it in their epistles. The command to obey the laws of the governments effectively rule out the notion of a "Christian nation." The only Christian nation is God's Israel (not the political state in Palestine, but the church). And that nation is spread across the entire world.

Why can't the Southern Baptists tell this to the Nagaland Christians instead of supplying them with finance and firearms?

 

[tdcharles]

What is your opinion about nationalism and patriotism towards your country of origin or your country of citizenship?

Do you consider pride in your homeland a sin for which God will punish you?

Is dying for your motherland a sin?

I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with patriotism, but I think there is a problem with nationalism. When you have nationalistic tendencies you begin to think "my country is better than yours". It first of all makes one lose sight of the fact that everyone is equal in the eyes of God. Secondly it, more often than not, harbors biggotry towards other countries or certain ethnic groups.

Dying for your motherland isn't necessarily a sin. It depends on the cause you are dying for. People who fight in a just war don't necessarily commit a sin. But Palestinian suicide bombers die for their country, disregarding the fact that innocent human lives are lost; they commit a grave sin and I don't expect them to be in heaven, now or in the future.....

 

[Ram]

What is your opinion about nationalism and patriotism towards your country of origin or your country of citizenship?

Do you consider pride in your homeland a sin for which God will punish you?

Is dying for your motherland a sin?

That will depend on how you define nationalism.

If nationalism means an unwanted pride in your nation , you have contempt for other nations, and promote war in these names etc, that is bad.

If nationalism means your interest in the nation crosses narrow boundaries of religion, caste, linguistics etc and treat all your fellow countrymen with respect and honour and care for them. And you will give up your life for the sake of improving your countrymen. That is true nationalism. Of course, it would be nicer if this nationalism were to expand to gloablism but is impossible in the present political arrangement. True nationalism is true service to god because it is service to humanity.

 

[arunma]

I was thinking secularism meant pro-Islam, pro-Christian, pro-communist and anti-Hindu. Oh well, I was looking at it from the indian context.

Well in America, secularism is also seen as pro-Islam, pro-Hindu, anti-Christian. The reason you say this is because Hinduism is the majority religion in India. Right?

I would serve my country out of love for it. It might sound odd but that is the truth. Serving my country is out of love. Not betraying my country is an obligation.

If you love your country more than you love God...well, let's just say that's a value I don't share. Jesus says that the first and greatest commandment is to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind." So what you've advocated isn't a viewpoint that I as a Christian can support.

Why can't the Southern Baptists tell this to the Nagaland Christians instead of supplying them with finance and firearms?

I seriously doubt that the Southern Baptists are really supplying the Nagas with firearms. Then again, I disagree with many of the the Southern Baptists' views, and I don't have any particular love for their denominational distinctives, so I'm not certain. In any case, I looked around the web, and I couldn't find any non-Hindus who connected the Southern Baptists to the National Liberation Front of Tripura (and even accusations by Hindus were scarce).