Is meaning man-made?

[Waiting for the Verdict]

Is it? If so, is there any point in creating any more meaning, especially if the main meaning human beings create is pain and suffering for others? Wouldn't it be better for the species to kill itself off?

Not criticizing any of these concepts. I'm just trying to come to grips with the idea that the universe is meaningless, or at least may very well be.

 

[Zaac]

Is it? If so, is there any point in creating any more meaning, especially if the main meaning human beings create is pain and suffering for others? Wouldn't it be better for the species to kill itself off?

Not criticizing any of these concepts. I'm just trying to come to grips with the idea that the universe is meaningless, or at least may very well be.

Is meaning of what man-made?

 

[John812]

I think meaning is created by any intelligent being. For instance, I try to live by a code of love, righteousness, kindness, compassion, forgiveness and all that awesome stuff - because these things are good and bring a lot of good into other peoples lives and leave me feeling that I have upheld the highest standard there is.

I'm just trying to come to grips with the idea that the universe is meaningless, or at least may very well be.

I don't think so. I love to be happy, to bring happiness to others. This is quite meaningful to me . Don't get too caught up in why existence is what it is, or how existence exists at all. Let's work with what we have .
When we have the oppurtunity, let's do good to everyone


God Bless ya!

 

[.Mikha'el.]

Is it? If so, is there any point in creating any more meaning, especially if the main meaning human beings create is pain and suffering for others? Wouldn't it be better for the species to kill itself off?

Not criticizing any of these concepts. I'm just trying to come to grips with the idea that the universe is meaningless, or at least may very well be.

As far as I am concerened, most Christians, including me, will tell you that meaning is not man made. It is divinely inspired.

 

[Spinrad]

Is it? If so, is there any point in creating any more meaning, especially if the main meaning human beings create is pain and suffering for others? Wouldn't it be better for the species to kill itself off?

Not criticizing any of these concepts. I'm just trying to come to grips with the idea that the universe is meaningless, or at least may very well be.

Wow. Yes it is. And what a very pathetic statment you made after the question was asked.

 

[Matthew777]

Is it? If so, is there any point in creating any more meaning, especially if the main meaning human beings create is pain and suffering for others? Wouldn't it be better for the species to kill itself off?

If you are trying to find the meaning of life, I suggest that you read this book:

"Man's Search for Meaning is among the most influential works of psychiatric literature since Freud. The book begins with a lengthy, austere, and deeply moving personal essay about Frankl's imprisonment in Auschwitz and other concentration camps for five years, and his struggle during this time to find reasons to live.
Key Ideas... "
http://home.earthlink.net/~startz/frankl.htm

This site gives a great overview of the book.

 

[glo]

I assume you're talking about the human beings creating their own "meaning of life" because of their unacceptance of a deity?

Or meaning of what??? Please clarify your original post.
.
.
.

I'm just trying to come to grips with the idea that the universe is meaningless, or at least may very well be.

Well if you're a Christian, that meaning is to serve God, as Ecclesiastes 12:13 says. "Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man."

I don't think human beings can make for themselves a personal meaning. For example what John812 says is that he lives to make people happy- a common purpose humans assign to themselves.
But really, do these people you make happy live forever? No, they die. So really, it's all just temporary the happiness you bestowed on them. It's still, in that sense, seeming like you lived for nothing. Because the results of your hard work on Earth (fulfilling your "meaning") was just pointless.
And it is.

Thus, most people without a god consent to the "fact" that human beings just don't have a meaning.

Though you could argue C.S. Lewis' arguement: if there really is no meaning to existence, why do human beings for thousands years, continue searching and feel so damn empty?
... maybe there IS a god then?

 

[Matthew777]

"What matters is not the meaning of life in general but rather a specific meaning of a person's life at a given moment. Everyone's task is as unique as his specific opportunity to implement it.
No man can tell another what his purpose for being is. Each must find out for himself, and accept the responsibility that his answer prescribes."
http://home.earthlink.net/~startz/frankl.htm

I highly suggest that you check out this book, my friend. At less than 200 pages, how could you go wrong?

 

[I <3 Abraham]

Wow. Yes it is. And what a very pathetic statment you made after the question was asked.

Wow...what's that about?

 

[Waiting for the Verdict]

Wow. Yes it is. And what a very pathetic statment you made after the question was asked.

Hi Spinrad. What exactly was pathetic about the statement I made? Albert Camus and Sarte, both prominent atheists\agnostics, agreed with me on that question, or at least would not say the question is pathetic. If the two foremost minds of the twentieth century beleive the question of suicide in the face of meaninglessnes is an understandable choice, then I fail to see what problem you could have with that statement (I'm not saying all atheists are alike. Or all Christians for that matter. I'm just saying, that for me, if I choose to adopt atheism...which I very well may...Camus and Sarte make more sense to me than someone telling me there is some inherent meaning to my life, when the whole idea of meaning has been discarded.).

But I do appreciate your input. Thankyou for your post.

 

[I <3 Abraham]

Hi Spinrad. What exactly was pathetic about the statement I made? Albert Camus and Sarte, both prominent atheists\agnostics, agreed with me on that question, or at least would not say the question is pathetic. If the two foremost minds of the twentieth century beleive the question of suicide in the face of meaninglessnes is an understandable choice, then I fail to see what problem you could have with that statement (I'm not saying all atheists are alike. Or all Christians for that matter. I'm just saying, that for me, if I choose to adopt atheism...which I very well may...Camus and Sarte make more sense to me than someone telling me there is some inherent meaning to my life, when the whole idea of meaning has been discarded.).

But I do appreciate your input. Thankyou for your post.

Also Nietzsche:

The thought of suicide is a powerful comfort, it has helped me through many a dark night.

Howsabout THAT for cheery huh?

 

[kedaman]

Is it? If so, is there any point in creating any more meaning, especially if the main meaning human beings create is pain and suffering for others? Wouldn't it be better for the species to kill itself off?

Not criticizing any of these concepts. I'm just trying to come to grips with the idea that the universe is meaningless, or at least may very well be.

the very meaning of the word meaning is the reference of which something refers to. If you create meaning, it must be synthesised out of a paradox. Truth stemming from a contradiction. Perhaps creation is one such spontaneous act of putting together things that were separate.

 

[ThinkerThinker]

Is it? If so, is there any point in creating any more meaning, especially if the main meaning human beings create is pain and suffering for others? Wouldn't it be better for the species to kill itself off?

Not criticizing any of these concepts. I'm just trying to come to grips with the idea that the universe is meaningless, or at least may very well be.

There is no such thing as objective meaning. The universe and all it contains is entirely without meaning. Innumerable things live and die in this universe without having any effect and, in an almost infinite amount of cases, without anyone even being aware of their existence. This has been going on for billions of years and anyone thinking some insignificant bacterium on some unknown planet in some unnoticed crevice that flickers into existence for a moment and is gone has any meaning has an over inflated sense of idealism.



There is, however, a mental state in at least the human mind referred to as meaning. I won’t call it man-made but it is certainly generated by the mind and we have some influence over it. It is an important part of our survival mechanism as it boosts the priority of things that are of value to us. It is an entirely self-centred process which is why the meaning of one person can bring about the destruction of another.



We might have meaning in the mind of God and for some He has meaning within their minds but if both we and God and this whole universe suddenly ceased to exist would it matter? No, because after it pops out of existence there would be no one to morn our or God’s departure.



It would, in a global sense, not matter if we kill ourselves of as a species but those things that have meaning for me will not allow me to participate in such an act.


p.

 

[David Gould]

The whole notion of life having meaning is something I do not understand.

Why are people happier with the notion that their life is a cog in some entity's master plan? How exactly does this provide 'meaning'?

If someone can explain to me what meaning actually means, I will be happy to engage with Sartre and Camus on the matter.


If there was no meaning, why would it be 'better' to suicide? On what standard are you measuring suicide's betterness?

 

[Matthew777]

The whole notion of life having meaning is something I do not understand.

One need not have religious faith in order to find meaning in life. I highly recommend that you read Frankl's book.

 

[David Gould]

One need not have religious faith in order to find meaning in life. I highly recommend that you read Frankl's book.

But I do not understand what is meant by 'meaning'. Is it happiness? Is it joy? Is it satisfaction? Is it completeness?

You see, I do not know what people mean when they say 'meaning'. As such, I have no idea if I would want any or not.

 

[Matthew777]

But I do not understand what is meant by 'meaning'. Is it happiness? Is it joy? Is it satisfaction? Is it completeness?

You see, I do not know what people mean when they say 'meaning'. As such, I have no idea if I would want any or not.

For one thing, meaning is found in being able to suffer with dignity. Again, please read Frankl's book, especially if you have an interest in psychology.

 

[David Gould]

For one thing, meaning is found in being able to suffer with dignity. Again, please read Frankl's book, especially if you have an interest in psychology.

You realise that because I have no idea what you mean when you say 'meaning' that first sentence reads to me as:

"For one thing, is found in being able to suffer with dignity."

What is 'meaning'? Simple question.

 

[Matthew777]

You realise that because I have no idea what you mean when you say 'meaning' that first sentence reads to me as:

"For one thing, is found in being able to suffer with dignity."

What is 'meaning'? Simple question.

Why not just start with the dictionary?

Meaning
To have as a purpose or an intention; intend: I meant to go running this morning, but I overslept.
To design, intend, or destine for a certain purpose or end: a building that was meant for storage; a student who was meant to be a scientist.
An interpreted goal, intent, or end: &#8220;The central meaning of his pontificate is to restore papal authority&#8221; (Conor Cruise O'Brien).
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=meaning

 

[David Gould]

Why not just start with the dictionary?

Meaning
To have as a purpose or an intention; intend: I meant to go running this morning, but I overslept.
To design, intend, or destine for a certain purpose or end: a building that was meant for storage; a student who was meant to be a scientist.
An interpreted goal, intent, or end: “The central meaning of his pontificate is to restore papal authority” (Conor Cruise O'Brien).
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=meaning

Well, I have intentions, so it seems as though I have meaning in my life. So no problem, then. I can certainly see why it would be a problem to have no intentions - it would be difficult to see how someone lacking intentions could act at all.

Or is something else meant by 'meaning'? Why do people - not you, obviously - suggest that people who do not believe in a deity cannot have meaning in their lives if all they are talking about are intentions?