Is masterbating considered a sin?

[Hupomone10]

Have any of the pro-masturbation brethren taken my suggestion yet and run it by their wives?

I want to suggest taking this one step further. Those who believe the Holy Spirit has guided them to touch, tell her that you believe the Spirit has led you to touch, and that since it's the suggestion of the Holy Spirit, you also believe you should teach your children proper masturbation:

Deuteronomy 6:6-7
6 "These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart.
7 "You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up.

Teaching your daughters can be a little tricky; you might want your wife to do that.

Any idea we have, We should follow it to the end of its road and see where it leads.

God bless, and lead us into the life of faith rather than the life governed by feeling,

H.

 

[dies-l]

Dies-I, being a recovered alcoholic, I know you don't want to make more of an issue than it is; but I also know you do not wish to come down on the side of enabling men who may unbeknownst to them be addicted to lust in some degree.

Since this is a serious post, I'll defer the rest to the next post.


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As a recovering alcoholic, I would liken this issue to consuming alcohol. If I were to have a beer, that would be sin, not because consuming alcohol is inherently sinful, but because I know my own weaknesses well enough to know that I will not stop at a beer. If my friend, who is not an alcoholic, were to have the same beer, he could do so with a clean conscience, because for him, a beer really is a beer. The sin comes not in the act of drinking a beer, but in the knowledge that I will not be able to stop.

Likewise, if a person is obsessed with inappropriate content and knows that masturbating will lead him to crave inappropriate content (or immoral fantasies), then it would be wrong for him to touch. But, if another person, not prone to the same weaknesses were to touch, I can't say that I would have a problem with that.

 

[dies-l]

Have any of the pro-masturbation brethren taken my suggestion yet and run it by their wives?

I think that some people have. I haven't, because, as a married man, I am not interested in masturbating. But, I am interested in making sure that we are biblically correct in our moral declarations.

I want to suggest taking this one step further. Those who believe the Holy Spirit has guided them to touch, tell her that you believe the Spirit has led you to touch, and that since it's the suggestion of the Holy Spirit, you also believe you should teach your children proper masturbation:

Deuteronomy 6:6-7
6 "These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart.
7 "You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up.

Teaching your daughters can be a little tricky; you might want your wife to do that.

Any idea we have, We should follow it to the end of its road and see where it leads.

God bless, and lead us into the life of faith rather than the life governed by feeling,

H.

Well, we are not talking about a legal command here, so the Scripture is off topic. But, I wouldn't find anything wrong with a parent, while teaching their kids about the birds and the bees, telling their kids that it is okay to touch in private, but not in public, but that we do not approve of inappropriate contentography or pre-marital sex, and in fact that masturbation is a preferable way to deal with your natural impulses than the other listed options.

 

[Hupomone10]

I think that some people have. I haven't, because, as a married man, I am not interested in masturbating. But, I am interested in making sure that we are biblically correct in our moral declarations.



Well, we are not talking about a legal command here, so the Scripture is off topic. But, I wouldn't find anything wrong with a parent, while teaching their kids about the birds and the bees, telling their kids that it is okay to touch in private, but not in public, but that we do not approve of inappropriate contentography or pre-marital sex, and in fact that masturbation is a preferable way to deal with your natural impulses than the other listed options.

That's fine, bro. I'm interested in hearing from the other pro-masturbation brethren who actively believe in this practice.
As far as being 'biblically correct in our moral declarations' I think you and I are in agreement on this. The act of masturbation itself apart from accompanying fantasies doesn't bring into play a moral declaration per se; it is simply gratifying the flesh, whether justifiable or not, and is therefore only a questionable issue not a clear cut-and-dry one. Like you said, drinking a beer sort of thing. The reason it would be 'wrong' for you and I to drink a beer is not because of a moral or scriptural law but because it sets us up for failure in an area where we are weak.

But how about this one, then

But, I wouldn't find anything wrong with a parent, while teaching their kids about the birds and the bees, telling their kids that it is okay to touch in private, but not in public

Have you run that one by your wife? Just curious. In my experience, Christian women generally don't attach the importance or legitimacy to masturbation that men do.

The reason? Men want to do it. In this case, man's wants dictate his theology (or what is acceptable).

Regarding your previous post, I hear you. It is exactly my feelings regarding drink. That's why to me this issue is not an issue of "is it right or ok to touch" as much as it is an issue of 'does it set me up for failure'. We all gratify the flesh in many many ways every day, and I certainly do also. As a principle, I've learned through my own journey to deliverance from alcoholism and also lust, to be alert to the flesh in every area, since the strengthening of resistance to temptations of the flesh in one area cross over to strength against it in other areas. I want to be cautious about condemning a person for a fleshly activity, but I also want to be cautious about condoning and advocating a fleshly activity because the passion of my heart is showing Christians the path to freedom. A person who doesn't walk by the flesh but instead habitually walks by the Spirit will find it easier to not 'fulfill the desire of the flesh.' (Gal. 5:16)

 

[Boidae]

Have any of the pro-masturbation brethren taken my suggestion yet and run it by their wives?

I want to suggest taking this one step further. Those who believe the Holy Spirit has guided them to touch, tell her that you believe the Spirit has led you to touch, and that since it's the suggestion of the Holy Spirit, you also believe you should teach your children proper masturbation:

Deuteronomy 6:6-7
6 "These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart.
7 "You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up.

Teaching your daughters can be a little tricky; you might want your wife to do that.

Any idea we have, We should follow it to the end of its road and see where it leads.

God bless, and lead us into the life of faith rather than the life governed by feeling,

H.

As mentioned before within this thread. My wife knows about my masturbation and has no issues with it.

The Holy Spirit guided me to the passage about it being adultery when thinking of another women. There is no sin in the act, but the possible thoughts that can accompany it. In my case being married means that my thoughts are to remain on my wife only. You can not commit adultery on your wife with thoughts of only her.

 

[Hupomone10]

we are not talking about a legal command here, so the Scripture is off topic.

If you are saying there is no clear cut command against masturbation, then I understand where you are coming from.

But the Christian is not to simply live according to command. That was the Old Covenant method: living obediently to the commands (and only the commands) in the strength of consecrated self-effort, strength, and resolve. That was living 'according to the letter' and Paul pointed out 'the letter kills' but 'the Spirit gives life' (2 Cor. 3:6) and that our walk is characterized by walking 'not in the oldness of the letter' but 'in the newness of the Spirit' (Rom. 7:6). The Christian life is to be a journey of learning to be 'led by the Spirit' (Rom. 8:14; Gal. 5:18) not merely to be an adherent to literal commands.

The problem is that this type of walk is something we have to learn. We are prone to walk according to the flesh, according to our own feelings and thinking. I think that's where scriptural commands and principles come in. We are constantly reminded by literal scripture of what the direction of the Spirit is so we can see if the leanings of our heart are according to the Spirit or not.

Once we accept the fact that everything is not cut-and-dry commands, there are in fact several principles from scripture that apply to this masturbation situation. It is at best a 'gray area' or 'questionable issue' and Paul said this about such things:

1) If my conscience is clear regarding the issue and I'm sure I have the mind and leading of the Spirit, I shouldn't live under condemnation regarding it:
Rom. 14:22
Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

2) If my conscience isn't clear regarding the issue, I should stay away from it:
Rom. 14:14,22
I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

3) If my conscience is clear about it for me personally but it isn't necessary and is something that can cause a brother to stumble, love would dictate that I should abstain:
Rom. 14:15
For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.
Rom. 14:21
It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.

3) If it is a questionable issue or one that could possibly cause another brother to stumble, I should keep my opinion of its legitimacy to myself rather than openly endorse it:
Rom. 14:22
The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God.

4) Lastly, the Christian walk is a walk by the Spirit by faith, not by feelings, urges, and reasoning (even though those are involved). Therefore, it cannot be an issue of whether I want to do it or think I need to do it, but only an issue of whether I have unquestioning faith in its legitimacy. If I don't, then for me it is sin:
Rom. 14:23
But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

The Amplified Bible is particularly helpful on that last one:
But the man who has doubts (misgivings, an uneasy conscience) about eating, and then eats [perhaps because of you], stands condemned [before God], because he is not true to his convictions and he does not act from faith. For whatever does not originate and proceed from faith is sin [whatever is done without a conviction of its approval by God is sinful].

In summary about this issue, to me the fact that there is not a direct command regarding masturbation is immaterial since my Christian walk is to be a walk according to the Spirit's guidance in line with Scriptural principles and not just commands. All that matters is that I learn to follow the leading of the Spirit not just the flesh, and live according to scriptural guidelines in doing so. I want to encourage people to pursue this type of walk rather than just tell them masturbation is wrong or right, for that is what a personal intimate walk with the Lord is all about.

God bless,
H.

 

[phoenixdem]

This thread is getting long and folks are starting to repeat themselves. Here is a suggestion. If those people who think there isn't a problem with mastubation, just go ahead and do it. They don't need permission from others as God is their judge, not us.

 

[Hupomone10]

This thread is getting long and folks are starting to repeat themselves. Here is a suggestion.

That was my contention originally, the long part anyway. I've about said my say, and am ready to retire after one more response.

If those people who think there isn't a problem with mastubation, just go ahead and do it. They don't need permission from others as God is their judge, not us.

Apparently they don't need permission from God either.

I agree, with the stipulation that most of the posts I've read aren't 'judging' anyone; mine certainly aren't intended that way. Any time an activity is condemned, the person is going to be tempted to take it as personal, even though it's not meant so. Warning someone there's a rattlesnake in the trail in front of them is not judging them for walking the trail.

Blessings,
H.

 

[Hupomone10]

As mentioned before within this thread. My wife knows about my masturbation and has no issues with it.

The Holy Spirit guided me to the passage about it being adultery when thinking of another women. There is no sin in the act, but the possible thoughts that can accompany it. In my case being married means that my thoughts are to remain on my wife only. You can not commit adultery on your wife with thoughts of only her.

A couple of thoughts I want to leave, and then I'm going to retire from this one because it wasn't my original intention to get involved in the debate.

I fully agree with you on the thoughts of thinking only of one's wife when relieving himself. For anyone who masturbates, this should be their goal. I guess the single person will have to wait for masturbation until marriage. Anyway, that's two things he can then look forward to in marriage: legitimate sex and legitimate masturbation.

I know this wasn't necessarily what you were saying with the adultery reference; but since many men touch to keep from having lustful thoughts, I'll leave it with two thoughts for these men:

if your wife said she needs to go shopping and buy clothes every couple of days to keep from coveting what other women have, would that be acceptable to you? Would it be acceptable to the Lord? The real issue with such shopping as well as masturbation is that of self-control, which is the fruit of the Spirit. When we aren't allowing the Spirit to lead us into self-control, we have to manufacture other remedies. I don't think this issue is as much a sin as it is simply a man-made remedy.

Secondly, as far as adulterous thoughts go, God has given a remedy, and it is not masturbation:

1 Cor. 7:2-5
2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. (notice he didn't say "use his own hand")
3 The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife (not himself), and likewise also the wife to her husband (not herself). (notice the focus on the other person, not Self)
5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

Please notice the mention of the word 'self-control', and God's command 'stop depriving one another.' This would have been the perfect opportunity for Paul to endorse masturbation, especially since this is most men's excuse for doing it.

The other excuse is pent-up frustration, the 72 hour thing I mentioned in the previous post. But we're fooling ourselves with that one too. Your body is lying to you. Just ask anyone who has fasted whether you really need to eat three times a day or not. Ask anyone who has had their arms in a cast whether you will die if you don't touch for 3 months or not.

It really is just a man-made remedy, not endorsed by Scripture, actually counter to the remedy given in scripture (Self vs. concern for the other person), and is a matter of self-control, which makes it a matter of how well we walk in the Spirit vs the flesh.

God bless all,
H.

 

[Boidae]

5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

That may work well for a husband who has a wife with a sex drive. My wife's is non-existent. Her multiple sclerosis robbed her of her sex drive.

As I stated, my wife would be fine if she never had sex again, it wouldn't bother her at all.

So she doesn't deprive me because she wants to, she has a medical reason that keeps her from having a sex drive. We have talked with her OB/GYN, her regular doctor, a sex therapist and her neurologist. They have no answers for her.

 

[ECBBLMSTR]

I believe you hit the bulls-eye with your interpretation of what Jesus meant by what he said about lusting after women. I have had other people tell me similar things but have never heard as good of an explanation as what presented

Thank you, I've studied this issue and that passage for a long time. It has been truly misused to condemn the innocent.

And getting back to our earlier discussion of whatsoever is not of faith is sin, one would think that if someone cannot accept a certain interpretation such as this one, then it would be a sin to them to act accordingly and a sin for us if we were to behave differently than we believe.

Yes, the Bible is clear that "he that doubteth is damned if he eat"... substitute masturbation in for eating unclean meats. And since, the desire in males for sexual intercourse and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is so inherent in them, it is imperative to resolve this question in each of our lives. Sex for men is a need not just a desire, with few exceptions. Sex Is a Physical Need - Focus on the Family
Sexual climax has health benefits for the body and mind of both sexes, designed by God to be part of our lives as sexual adults, i.e., post-puberty humans. Masturbation is like a learning center for sexual intercourse, a place to practice the music before having to play a duet.

I stayed at The Baptist Mission for about a month, during which time I received the exact help I needed to begin regaining my sanity. After that I went through a drug rehab and little by little God restored me to sanity--and gave me more than I had before so far as the other important things in life.

Glad the Lord cleaned you up and as I said before, I rely a lot upon Baptist thinkers and writers and I probably could find a Baptist Church that I would be at home in.

 

[ECBBLMSTR]

Fred Willard was arrested for lewd conduct last night in Hollywood when police allegedly caught him with his pants down in an adult movie theater ... TMZ has learned.
1. He is currently married & I bet he started masturbating at home before trying outside in public.
2. He probably used to touch about his wife... but one day he wanted to try something else.
3. Even if masturbating is legit in the scriptures for married couples.. how long do married couples keep masturbating to mental images of their spouses?

From what little I read about this, it was in all likelihood a publicity stunt to promote his latest media venture. It's like what the Hilton girl did to get attention to her TV show which was about to begin airing. Cheap publicity. My hope is that you have so much great sex with your wife that you don't feel like masturbating, but if you do feel like it, don't let anyone tell you that you can only think about your wife... Thought Nazis, be gone!

 

[ECBBLMSTR]

"Worship= To Love somebody deeply: to love, admire, or respect somebody or something greatly and perhaps excessively or unquestioningly.
In your adult life, have you ever spent about 5 to 15 hours a week on a hobby but only had spent 1 hour or less on the Lord? It's worship. Idolatry.

Its something to be concerned about I totally agree. We need to be good stewards of our time, but if it was a sheer matter of time devoted to something, then we would come to many absurd conclusions.. working 40 hours a week is idolatry. Actual idolatry is worshiping or serving a false god. If you are forsaking Christian duties due to your hobby, then I would agree that its an idol.

 

[ECBBLMSTR]

Another internal absurdity in this "re-enactment" (Post#119) is that if both spouses are together and available, they will likely have sex; and they won't announce it to their 12 year old when they do it or where. The illustration fails.

 

[ECBBLMSTR]

Have any of the pro-masturbation brethren taken my suggestion yet and run it by their wives?

I want to suggest taking this one step further. Those who believe the Holy Spirit has guided them to touch, tell her that you believe the Spirit has led you to touch, and that since it's the suggestion of the Holy Spirit, you also believe you should teach your children proper masturbation

Your mock suggestion doesn't prove any thing or add to the discussion. First of all, it isn't necessary for us to have a revelation from the Holy Spirit, but simply as Paul said: "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." I'm fully persuaded that there is absolutely nothing wrong with private masturbation done in moderation, assuming that one's partner isn't available. Ideally, you already have an agreement with your partner that solo-sex is okay when either feels the desire to to so and it doesn't cheat the other of sexual relations. Nearly all males touch and most females touch, so this shouldn't be that big of an issue.

I would want my children to know that its a private matter, to be done in a safe and healthy way, and nothing to be ashamed of whatsoever. I would explain to them why they feel "down" afterwards if they do. I would give guidance on avoiding inappropriate contentography.

 

[ECBBLMSTR]

If you are saying there is no clear cut command against masturbation, then I understand where you are coming from.
[Redaction]
Once we accept the fact that everything is not cut-and-dry commands, there are in fact several principles from scripture that apply to this masturbation situation. It is at best a 'gray area' or 'questionable issue' and Paul said this about such things:

[Paul's teaching in Romans 14]

In summary about this issue, to me the fact that there is not a direct command regarding masturbation is immaterial since my Christian walk is to be a walk according to the Spirit's guidance in line with Scriptural principles and not just commands. All that matters is that I learn to follow the leading of the Spirit not just the flesh, and live according to scriptural guidelines in doing so. I want to encourage people to pursue this type of walk rather than just tell them masturbation is wrong or right, for that is what a personal intimate walk with the Lord is all about.

While your general tone is pleasant, you continue to insist on several things: that fantasies accompanying masturbation are necessarily sinful or that if it's done too often it is sinful. You have implied that it's always sinful for females to do it, since they have no need of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. You suggest that there are "scriptural principles" that apply to masturbation, so that "at best" it is a "gray" area. All in all, your bottom line is that you still believe it is sinful, and that since you think it has "a hint of sexual immorality", you think it is wrong.

To this I say, "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." It's only a gray area to you and those who think your way. For me and others, its not gray at all; there's no sin in it. For others, masturbation is wrong all the time in any situation. Paul never said for us to not talk to others about our beliefs; he said for us to not cause others to stumble, esp. believers with weak consciences. Paul himself continually taught about meats sacrificed to idols and other "gray area" issues, the debates of that day like the need for circumcision, or Sabbath keeping etc. He didn't hold back unless he was in a social setting where someone might be offended. He specifically said that we are not to allow another person's conscience to govern our own private behavior or personal beliefs. Anyone who goes on an internet forum is involved a public debate, so the rule of not offending a weaker brother rarely applies here.

There really is no scriptural passage or principle to indicate that this behavior is wrong and ample reason to believe that it is approved of God..... IMHO of course. I don't see this as a lack of self-control except, possibly, when a person has an available partner. Glad to have a friendly debate about this since to many get upset over this and allow it to affect their self-image, their faith in God, even some become so despondent they consider suicide over their "failure" to "overcome" and live a "pure" life. It is a serious matter worthy of discussion i think.

 

[phoenixdem]

Well, judging by the number of posts on this matter, it certainly seems to be a common "sport" with the people here.

 

[JoeyArnold]

Private masturbation is actually healthy and won't bother you once you get over religious brainwashing.

Killing people is actually healthy, too, once you get over the religious commandment of, "Thou shalt not murder."

 

[ECBBLMSTR]

Killing people is actually healthy, too, once you get over the religious commandment of, "Thou shalt not murder."

You're in prison now, Mr. Holmes. When you return to sanity and have a valid point to make, try again.

 

[JoeyArnold]

You're in prison.

Why are you going to tell me what is healthy and what is not healthy?