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amariselle

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You are not required to respond to my posts you know (neither is anyone else). As for the ideas being "implicit in Scripture", they are not. If Jesus had wanted us to venerate Mary, He would have told us, we would have such teachings in the Bible. Why would He leave something like that out?

Anyway, as I have said, responding to posts is obviously optional. This is a public forum, meant for discussion, the topic is Mary.

As I said, you've made it abundantly clear what you think of me.

I will not be responding to you further.

God bless
 
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PeaceB

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We believe that they are in the Bible. We have already provided you with Scripture and explanations. You disagree with the information that has been provided to you. As I told you before, we interpret the Bible differently than you do. You reject our interpretations, and we reject your interpretations.
 
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Major1

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She is trying to get YOU to face the fact that you are not accepting the Word of God.

You have NOT provided Scriptures to support your religious actions in the faith you are believing in.

You have explained but explinations are not Bible facts my friend.
 
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Goatee

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Superb post
 
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Goatee

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Jesus has a few titles too
 
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Major1

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NOPE, you have not provided Bible Scriptures because there is none to provide.

We disagree with the information you provided because it is only explinations of your religion and are not based on Bible truths.
 
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PeaceB

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NOPE, you have not provided Bible Scriptures because there is none to provide.

We disagree with the information you provided because it is only explinations of your religion and are not based on Bible truths.
Duly noted.

Show me a Bible verse that states "Thou shalt not pray in front of a statute of Mary" or I will not believe.
 
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Mountainmike

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All I cans say , is read the answer above, then study.

Christ is a davidic King. Mary is his mother. The rest follows. Such as Mary intercedes at Cana.
All follows. Study it.

Preferably BEFORE you repeat the I have shown false (and some of us find offensive) accusation that Mary as "queen" is somehow pagan. Whether or not you like the explanation the roots are biblical , it is certainly not pagan, so the remark was illinformed..

Your questions state either you have not read what I said, or drawn simple logical conclusions from it, or in places you have drawn nonsequiturs from it. Like "where does it say we should"- answer nowhere, but it is not what I said or we believe. There is a huge difference between "should" and "can" so the question is a logical nonsequitur. Nowhere does it say you should ask friends to pray for you, but we accept we can and most of us do.

I can only comment that without those Church fathers, and their inspired councils you would have no new testament. That is church history. The enactment of the power to "bind and loose", and that the "foundation of truth is the church which is the household of God"

Enough.
I tire of explaining the same points endlessly. I only hope it inspires others to research it.
As a general heological background to marian doctrines I suggest you read such as "staples" "behold your mother" which covers many of your points.

Study what we think and why. then decide, is a good order!


 
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Goatee

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Many teachings Jesus taught that, as John said, would need more books than the world could supply!

The Apostles knew these 'teachings and have passed down, through Apostolic Tradition and Sacred Tradition truths that the Catholic Church hold fast to!

It is obvious that these teachings would have included many things not written in the Bible. We are blessed in the CC to have had the world of Jesus and Mary expanded upon in ways that you cannot understand or even accept!
 
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Major1

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Jeremiah 44:19..........
"And the women said, “When we made offerings to the queen of heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, was it without our husbands’ approval that we made cakes for her bearing her image and poured out drink offerings to her?”

That was of course not Mary but was a woman named Semeramis who was the wife on Nimrod by in Genesis 10.

What Does The Bible Say?
Newsweek magazine of August 25, 1997.

That magazine brought to our attention a movement within the Roman Catholic Church to petition the Pope to "exercise the power of papal infallibility to proclaim a new dogma of the Roman Catholic faith: that the Virgin Mary is
'Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix of All Graces and Advocate for the People of God."' At the heading of the lengthy article is this statement: "A growing movement in the Roman Catholic Church wants the pope to proclaim a new, controversial dogma: that Mary is Co-Redeemer.

According to the article, in the last four years, the pope has received 4,340,429 signatures from 157 countries and continues to receive on average 100,000 a month urging him to do so. The article also tells us that Mother Teresa (now deceased) and nearly 500 bishops and 42 cardinals at the Vatican support such a move by the pope. The petition leader is Prof. Mark Miravalle, lay theologian at Franciscan University in Steubenville, Ohio. We are also told that if this becomes official dogma, "Catholics are obliged as a matter of faith to accept three extraordinary doctrines: that Mary participates in the redemption achieved by her son, that all graces that flow from the suffering and death of Jesus Christ are granted only through Mary's intercession with her son, and that all prayers and petitions from the faithful on earth must likewise flow through Mary, who then brings them to the attention of Jesus."

Hmmmm. Where there is smoke there is always a fire.

Further in the article we read, "In many ways, the 20th century has belonged to Mary. From almost every continent, visionaries have reported more than 400 "apparitions" of the Virgin--more than in the previous three centuries combined, Miravalle estimates. Taken together, these visions point to what the Marian movement believes is a millennial "Age of Mary," which will produce the final dogma that confirms her ongoing maternal mediation between God and humankind."
 
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Goatee

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SACRED SCRIPTURE AND SACRED TRADITION. NOT SOLA SCRIPTURE my dear buddy.

You only know Sola Scripture. Nothing else. Only YOUR OWN PERSONAL OPINION / VIEWS / BELIEFS / INTERPRETATIONS / READING.
 
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PeaceB

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None of those Bible verses states "Thou shalt not pray in front of a statute of Mary". So I am perfectly free to pray in front of a statute of Mary.

Good day.
 
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Major1

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Duly noted.

Show me a Bible verse that states "Thou shalt not pray in front of a statute of Mary" or I will not believe.

I have personally done just that for you about 12 times now. As YOU have stated, you will not accept what is show to you. The Question really now is WHY?

Here is a better, Where in the Bible are YOU told to bow down to a statue of Mary and Joseph and Jesus?????

Exodus 20:4-5 ...
'Thou shalt not MAKE unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. THOU SHALT NOT BOW THYSELF DOWN TO THEM, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.'


Did you notice that we are not even to make any images. And we are not to bow down to them. Because just bowing down to them is WORSHIP!

How can that be said any clearer?

You and many other Catholic believers have said we do not worship Mary, WE VENERATE her as if that word is some magical potion that releases you from the sin of idolatry.

But the fact is that English word "venerate" comes from the Latin word "veneratus", which means: "worshipped, adored, revered, venerated." So the word "venerate" can also mean to worship.

Now the bottom line is real simple, You do it because YOU want to. Somebody centuries ago started it, they like it and now you do because someone told you to do it.
 
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Major1

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By the way........where can we find Jesus or any disciple or aposle bowing down to Mary.

I mean, you do it today and you accept traditions over Scripture, so then there should be some kind of record even outside of the Bible that says Jesus and the disciples and Apostles bowed down to Mary.

Would you please post that for me?
 
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Goatee

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Graven image referring to the many gods that the Jews used to worship in those days.

God knows who we worship. Christians can't and don't make any graven images etc. It's impossible as we only worship the one true God!
 
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Goatee

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YOU, are a 'SOLA SCRIPTURE person.

CATHOLICS ARE NOT!
 
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PeaceB

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None of the Bible verses that you cited state "Thou shalt not pray in front of a statute of Mary". I reject your man made interpretations that add to the word of God.
 
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PeaceB

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None of us bow down to Mary. We kneel in front of a statute of Mary to pray. None of the Bible verses you cited states "Thou shalt not kneel in front of a statute of Mary to pray." You are adding your man made interpretations to the word of God.
 
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Major1

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None of us bow down to Mary. We kneel in front of a statute of Mary to pray. None of the Bible verses you cited states "Thou shalt not kneel in front of a statute of Mary to pray." You are adding your man made interpretations to the word of God.

That is exactly what I knew you would say. What else can you say????????

What is actually funny to me is that you speak to us like none of us (Protestants) have ever been in a Catholic church service.

My dear friend, many of whom you have talked with are x-Catholic believers and many have attended church services in the Catholic church.

We have SEEN the bowing down to statues. We have SEEN the adoration/worship/veneration given.

We are not talking about opinions or accepting what you are spinning. We (I) have been there and seen what takes place. So you are going to have to come up with another routine to explain why you do what you do other than......You just want to do it.
 
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Major1

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None of the Bible verses that you cited state "Thou shalt not pray in front of a statute of Mary". I reject your man made interpretations that add to the word of God.

Where is the Bible verse telling to you pray in front of MAry?
 
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