Is Mary a source of Holiness?

IamAdopted · Feb 15, 2007

Teke said:
Mary is a type of the Church in scripture. We are given many types to learn from their examples.

Pro 12:4
A virtuous woman [is] a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed [is] as rottenness in his bones.
Is the Church the bride of Christ?
Is the Church a Virgin?
Is the Church to be a virtuous woman?
Is the Church the Body which Christ dwells in and with?
Is the Church that which bears the living in the world?
Does the Church reply "yes" to God?
Was Mary separated/holy to God?
Is the Church to be holy/separated to God?

What other type in scripture is there of the Church. Who is the betrothed of Christ, and remains a virgin even tho bearing (as in birthing) the living (those in Christ) and remains still a virgin.
What other virgin did Christ dwell in and with who remains ever virgin?

If your His Church, then Mary is your example. Ever seeking Him and never leaving Him, no matter what.

Then there is the practical reason of being able to explain such things to little children of the faith. Who need such types as example to help them understand.
Tis far easier to give them a Nativity set and explain the simple truth. Even the reality of God with us and in us, by the example of Mary.
Who is the daughter of Eve, mother of all living.

Sorry I disagree. I am a child of God so therefore I will find my Holiness in His written word and by the example of Christ my King.. Mary is not the mother of the church.. She is the mother of Jesus. Not the mother of God. For God the Father has never been born.. Jesus was before He was born. Very little is spoken about Mary in the scriptures.. Jesus never referred us to Mary.. He said I am the way to the Father..

Teke · Feb 15, 2007

IamAdopted said:
Sorry I disagree. I am a child of God so therefore I will find my Holiness in His written word and by the example of Christ my King.. Mary is not the mother of the church.. She is the mother of Jesus. Not the mother of God. For God the Father has never been born.. Jesus was before He was born. Very little is spoken about Mary in the scriptures.. Jesus never referred us to Mary.. He said I am the way to the Father..

Do you have a Trinity theology in your beliefs?
Jesus came to establish His Church. And He came thru the virgin Mary. (His choice and story, not mine)
If you deny the scriptures, what else can one say to you........

Or perhaps I should ask, what is Mary to you?
You didn't explain your view or answer my questions.

HisBelovedMelody · Feb 15, 2007

nothing she said was against scripture. Mary is the mother of Jesus. She is NOT a type of the church...she did NOT FIND the church. Yes, Jesus came through the virgin Mary, but what does that have to do with anything that IAA said?? You are really sttreettcchhhingg scripture to get it to say what you wanted with the quotes from Proverbs and all that....

HisBelovedMelody · Feb 15, 2007

JESUS is MY only source for/of holiness. HE is my example. He is MY everything...Mary is a wonderful woman of God that decided to be obedient to the Father. NOTHING more, nothing less.

OrthodoxyUSA · Feb 15, 2007

There is no "source" other than the Father.

There are many methods of conveyance.

Forgive me....

Myriah · Feb 15, 2007

IamAdopted said:
Jesus never referred us to Mary.. He said I am the way to the Father..

I agree. Mary is not the church, nor the gateway to anything, but giving birth to Christ. Jesus is THE WAY, and the truth, and THE LIFE period.

IamAdopted · Feb 15, 2007

Teke said:
Do you have a Trinity theology in your beliefs?
Jesus came to establish His Church. And He came thru the virgin Mary. (His choice and story, not mine)
If you deny the scriptures, what else can one say to you........

Or perhaps I should ask, what is Mary to you?
You didn't explain your view or answer my questions.

What is Mary to me? She is the earthly mother of Jesus. She is a sister in the Lord. Nothing more nothing Less..

Teke · Feb 15, 2007

HisBelovedMelody said:
nothing she said was against scripture. Mary is the mother of Jesus. She is NOT a type of the church...she did NOT FIND the church. Yes, Jesus came through the virgin Mary, but what does that have to do with anything that IAA said?? You are really sttreettcchhhingg scripture to get it to say what you wanted with the quotes from Proverbs and all that....

I didn't say she "found" the Church.
And there is no need to stretch scripture. It says what it says.
I've yet to hear other explanations of the Church and types in scripture.

Let's not have a one sided conversation on the subject. Where one side gives all the explanation and scripture and the other simply refutes it because they don't believe. If you can't bear such a teaching, then simply say so.
Tho it makes me wonder how or if the same can or do bear the teaching of the Trinity.

Why do you think Mary's story is in scripture? Since scripture is about Our Lord, and all that pertains to Him. How does Mary fit in your Christology?

Knowledge3 · Feb 15, 2007

IamAdopted said:
Scripture does not back up that Mary is a source of holiness..

Scripture is not the only source we have.

Uphill Battle · Feb 15, 2007

Knowledge3 said:
Scripture is not the only source we have.

that doesn't really need to be said though, does it?

HisBelovedMelody · Feb 15, 2007

Teke said:
I didn't say she "found" the Church.
And there is no need to stretch scripture. It says what it says.
I've yet to hear other explanations of the Church and types in scripture.

Let's not have a one sided conversation on the subject. Where one side gives all the explanation and scripture and the other simply refutes it because they don't believe. If you can't bear such a teaching, then simply say so.
Tho it makes me wonder how or if the same can or do bear the teaching of the Trinity.

Why do you think Mary's story is in scripture? Since scripture is about Our Lord, and all that pertains to Him. How does Mary fit in your Christology?

Mary's story is in the Bible cause she gave birth to our Saviour. Where does she fit in? Easy, she is Jesus' mother. THAT is it. Nothing more. You streched Proverbs for it to say something that has NO reference or anything to do with Mary. That is what I meant. Don't be condescending. If you want to 'teach'.. teach truth not stretching things to make it say what you want. Teach in honesty. An attitude adjustment might help your cause too. Just a thought.

IamAdopted · Feb 15, 2007

I am not saying that Mary did not live a Holy life.. I am asking if Mary is a source of Holiness.. Scripture does not back this.. Gods own written truth does not hold this up to be true..

Axion · Feb 15, 2007

The Church is the only source we have.

Scripture came from the Church, not the other way round! The bible was put together by the CHURCH in 382 AD.

Jesus did not leave His teaching authority to any book, no matter how many people seem to believe that today. He left His authority to the living Church He founded on the Apostles.

The Church has always taught that mary is a vitally important individual in the History of our Salvation through her reversal of the disobedience of Eve and bringing the Saviour into the world.

IamAdopted · Feb 15, 2007

Axion said:
The Church is the only source we have.

Scripture came from the Church, not the other way round! The bible was put together by the CHURCH in 382 AD.

Jesus did not leave His teaching authority to any book, no matter how many people seem to believe that today. He left His authority to the living Church He founded on the Apostles.

The Church has always taught that mary is a vitally important individual in the History of our Salvation through her reversal of the disobedience of Eve and bringing the Saviour into the world.

No the church came from the scripture.. For Jesus is the Word.. From the beginning He was..

Uphill Battle · Feb 15, 2007

Axion said:
The Church is the only source we have.

Scripture came from the Church, not the other way round! The bible was put together by the CHURCH in 382 AD.

Jesus did not leave His teaching authority to any book, no matter how many people seem to believe that today. He left His authority to the living Church He founded on the Apostles.

The Church has always taught that mary is a vitally important individual in the History of our Salvation through her reversal of the disobedience of Eve and bringing the Saviour into the world.

no no no!

this is false. The scripture was written long before 382. It was being used before 382. The only thing 382 did was ratify what was already there!

HisBelovedMelody · Feb 15, 2007

Axion said:
The Church is the only source we have.

Scripture came from the Church, not the other way round! The bible was put together by the CHURCH in 382 AD.

Jesus did not leave His teaching authority to any book, no matter how many people seem to believe that today. He left His authority to the living Church He founded on the Apostles.

The Church has always taught that mary is a vitally important individual in the History of our Salvation through her reversal of the disobedience of Eve and bringing the Saviour into the world.

OH my nerve. Maybe some folk should check out the spiritual pride thread. It is THICK in here...

IamAdopted · Feb 15, 2007

Axion said:
The Church is the only source we have.

Scripture came from the Church, not the other way round! The bible was put together by the CHURCH in 382 AD.

Jesus did not leave His teaching authority to any book, no matter how many people seem to believe that today. He left His authority to the living Church He founded on the Apostles.

The Church has always taught that mary is a vitally important individual in the History of our Salvation through her reversal of the disobedience of Eve and bringing the Saviour into the world.

Umm no the only way to make a person Holy is if indeed they have the Holy Spirit in them and they are washed from the blood of the Lamb.. The Church cannot do this.. Only Christ can do this..

Iollain · Feb 15, 2007

Some people teach that Mary is the neck of the Church and all grace comes to all the Church via her, and she decides where it goes. So God's grace goes to God, to Mary, and she decides how to give it out. But of course you won't hear that around here cause noone has the .......whatever it takes to preach it.

http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4a.htm

Uphill Battle · Feb 15, 2007

Iollain said:
Some people teach that Mary is the neck of the Church and all grace comes to all the Church via her, and she decides where it goes. So God's grace goes to God, to Mary, and she decides how to give it out. But of course you won't hear that around here cause noone has the .......whatever it takes to preach it.

http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4a.htm

this one is particularily bothersome.

3) Leo XIII, Encyclical, Octobri mense adventante, Sept 22, 1891, ASS 24, 1891, 196.
... it is right to say, that nothing at all of that very great treasury of all grace which the Lord brought us--for 'grace and truth came through Jesus Christ' [Jn 1.17]--nothing is imparted to us except through Mary, since God so wills, so that just as no one can come to the Father except through the Son, so in general, no one can come to Christ except through His Mother.

Tyndale · Feb 15, 2007

IamAdopted said:
Scripture does not back up that Mary is a source of holiness..

Nope.

I would be very afraid to venerate/worship/pray for anyone other than God and I wouldn't take the risk of using icons or graven images to do so.

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