Is Marriage Valid?

[elephunky]

I am not sure if this is the right spot to put this but it seems to relate to morals and ethics.

Is there any reason to get married anymore (besides people wanting to have sex) given that marriage is so easily disposed of in this day and age? You can make a vow of "Til death do us part"...but I guess they neglect to mention "for as long as I feel like this to be the case". What does it say when someone makes this vow but 10 - 20 years down the track just decides to bail?

Given that marriage is no longer taken seriously would it not be better to just remove the legality of marriage, replace it with unions across the board for everybody and leave "marriage" to religious groups where they are united under the god/gods/goddess etc.

 

[KitKatMatt]

A legal marriage has several benefits regarding taxes and joining insurance plans and such. So yes, if you want those benefits, there is a reason to get legally married.

 

[CabVet]

Given that marriage is no longer taken seriously would it not be better to just remove the legality of marriage, replace it with unions across the board for everybody and leave "marriage" to religious groups where they are united under the god/gods/goddess etc.

You are splitting hairs there. This is the way it happens now. If you want a civil union you go to the courthouse, if you want a marriage you go to your church. The only "problem" is that legal civil unions are also called "marriage" and many churches require the couple to be legally married for them to be religiously married (hence the legal power many clerics have).

 

[Johnnz]

Christians see marriage from within a biblical framework, where it takes its place as a covenant promise of relationship and nurture. Any civil component becomes a matter of each jurisdiction's laws. In our society which is abandoning biblical foundations marriage is usually viewed quite differently.

John
NZ

 

[elephunky]

You are splitting hairs there. This is the way it happens now. If you want a civil union you go to the courthouse, if you want a marriage you go to your church. The only "problem" is that legal civil unions are also called "marriage" and many churches require the couple to be legally married for them to be religiously married (hence the legal power many clerics have).

Not sure how it is splitting hairs. I am looking at the concept of marriage, what it is meant to represent. Would it not be better to have a legal union without the vows etc but to be recognised legally as a partnership for legal benefits, and to have the vows etc done within a church under their religion if they are religious is what I meant. Seperation of the two completely.

I do not think we have much in the way of civil unions here and in the places that we do have it, it is meant for same sex couples.

 

[Lethe]

I am looking at the concept of marriage, what it is meant to represent.

What is marriage meant to represent?

 

[elephunky]

What is marriage meant to represent?

What is in the vows. Together forever. That BS.

 

[Lethe]

Ah, well not all vows are the same. My vows were probably different than your vows, and my parents vows were definitely different than my vows, etc.

So we're not even really talking about one set, defined thing, when we're referring to the non-legal aspects of marriage.

 

[clark thompson]

Marriage was something God started not man. Marriage is something God considers special, we should too. Having marriage without following after Jesus would be meaningless today but with Him it is sacred commitment.

 

[Eudaimonist]

What is in the vows. Together forever. That BS.

While marriages do often dissolve, that doesn't mean that the intent to be married for life can't be sincere.

As for "civil unions", no one ever says that they've been "unioned". That's not even a word. They say that they've gotten "married". I don't see the point in making this distinction.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[elephunky]

Ah, well not all vows are the same. My vows were probably different than your vows, and my parents vows were definitely different than my vows, etc.

So we're not even really talking about one set, defined thing, when we're referring to the non-legal aspects of marriage.

I am talking about the vows that you are required to make during the ceremony which are actually legal. As far as I am aware, the legal vows here actually still include to death do us part etc etc.

Marriage was something God started not man. Marriage is something God considers special, we should too. Having marriage without following after Jesus would be meaningless today but with Him it is sacred commitment.

This depends on your faith/religion. For me it is not made by god but made by man. Even if I was a christian, I would still hold this view as real marriage in the eyes of god was said in the bible to be between two people who were intimate with each other.

While marriages do often dissolve, that doesn't mean that the intent to be married for life can't be sincere.

As for "civil unions", no one ever says that they've been "unioned". That's not even a word. They say that they've gotten "married". I don't see the point in making this distinction.

Fair call. A vow is a promise yes? Then perhaps vows should be removed completely from secular marriage.

 

[Lethe]

I am talking about the vows that you are required to make during the ceremony which are actually legal.

Then perhaps vows should be removed completely from secular marriage.

There are no vows or any particular requirements in the legal definition of marriage.

 

[elephunky]

There are no vows or any particular requirements in the legal definition of marriage.

I am fairly sure they are in my country. You are required to repeat those vows.

 

[KitKatMatt]

I am fairly sure they are in my country. You are required to repeat those vows.

In the USA, marriage vows have no legal standing. They are, from a legal standpoint, seen as just a personal touch that some people add for ceremony.

 

[Hetta]

I am not sure if this is the right spot to put this but it seems to relate to morals and ethics.

Is there any reason to get married anymore (besides people wanting to have sex) given that marriage is so easily disposed of in this day and age? You can make a vow of "Til death do us part"...but I guess they neglect to mention "for as long as I feel like this to be the case". What does it say when someone makes this vow but 10 - 20 years down the track just decides to bail?

Given that marriage is no longer taken seriously would it not be better to just remove the legality of marriage, replace it with unions across the board for everybody and leave "marriage" to religious groups where they are united under the god/gods/goddess etc.

Yes, there is a reason. Although some people treat marriage as easy to be disposed of, many do not. I still think it is a good thing to aim for, and even if it fails, for those people whose marriage breaks up at 20 years - they still had a good marriage .. for a time.

 

[CabVet]

I am fairly sure they are in my country. You are required to repeat those vows.

Here is a good summary of marriage laws in the US:

Marriage License > Wedding License Requirements > Laws By States

Vows with the "until death do us apart" portion are only required to be repeated when the ceremony is performed by a religious priest/pastor/rabbi etc or when you ask the judge to perform the ceremony like that.

But I still don't understand your point. What is wrong with hoping to stay together for a long time (making the vows)? What is wrong with moving on when that does not work (divorcing)?

 

[CabVet]

Yes, there is a reason. Although some people treat marriage as easy to be disposed of, many do not. I still think it is a good thing to aim for, and even if it fails, for those people whose marriage breaks up at 20 years - they still had a good marriage .. for a time.

Exactly.

 

[elephunky]

But I still don't understand your point. What is wrong with hoping to stay together for a long time (making the vows)? What is wrong with moving on when that does not work (divorcing)?

It is a vow, a promise. If you cannot or will not honour it, do not make it. That is my point.

 

[CabVet]

It is a vow, a promise. If you cannot or will not honour it, do not make it. That is my point.

If you are uncomfortable with the promise, don't make it. The law (at least in the US) does not require it (and I doubt vows are required by law anywhere else, except maybe places where there is Sharia Law). Some people like to have the hope that they will stay together, hence the promise, nothing wrong with that.

 

[Sectio Aurea]

What is in the vows. Together forever. That BS.

Marriage vows are unique to each couple, and are normally decided upon by the bride and groom prior to marraige.

However I think you may be referring to religious marraige, more often than not, religious marriages tend to have couples who for whatever reason, fail to decide on their own unique vows prior to the big day, so they simply accept any generic vows that the celebrant presents to them.

This leads to people failing to honour their vows, thus rendering their marriage meaningless.