Is Lying Ever Justified?

[Salsa_1960]

Before you answer my question with your opinion, would you please take a look at these scriptures?

Exodus 1:15-21 (The midwives lie to the pharoah)
15 The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, one of whom was named Shiphrah, and the other Puah, 16 "When you assist the Hebrew women in childbirth, observe at the delivery: if it is a boy, kill him, but if it is a girl, then she may live." 17 But the midwives feared God, and they did not do what the king of Egypt had told them; they let the boys live.

18 Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and said to them, "Why have you done this, and let the boys live?" 19 And the midwives replied to Pharaoh, "Because the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women-for the Hebrew women are vigorous; they give birth before the midwives come to them!" 20 So God treated the midwives well, and the people multiplied and became exceedingly strong. 21 And because the midwives feared God, he made households for them.

Joshua 2:1-7 (Rahab lies to save the spies)
1 Joshua son of Nun sent two spies out from [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim and instructed them: "Find out what you can about the land, especially Jericho." They stopped at the house of a prostitute named Rahab and spent the night there. 2 The king of Jericho received this report: "Note well! Israelite men have come here tonight to spy on the land." 3 So the king of Jericho sent this order to Rahab: "Turn over the men who came to you-the ones who came to your house-for they have come to spy on the whole land!" 4 But the woman hid the two men and replied, "Yes, these men were clients of mine, but I didn't know where they came from. 5 When it was time to shut the city gate for the night, the men left. I don't know where they were heading. Chase after them quickly, for you have time to catch them!" 6 (Now she had taken them up to the roof and had hidden them in the stalks of flax she had spread out on the roof.) 7 Meanwhile the king's men tried to find them on the road to the Jordan River near the fords. The city gate was shut as soon as they set out in pursuit of them.

Rahab is commended in the book of Hebrews for what she did
Hebrews 11:31 "By faith Rahab the prostitute escaped the destruction of the disobedient, because she welcomed the spies in peace."

I'm also thinking more recently in history-- back to World War II in particular. I'm thinking of people like Corie ten Boom and others like her family who hid many Jews (as well as others whom the Nazis thought of as being "undesirable people"). Lying was a "necessary evil" to save the people they were hiding.

Bring it a little closer to home. A child is home from school 15 minutes sooner than a parent. The phone rings and a person asks, "Is your mother home?" Does the child tell a white-lie/half-truth and say "She can't come to the phone right now." Does the child say, "No, she's not home right now." ?

When, if ever, (in your opinion), is it acceptable to lie?

 

[secretdawn]

Obviously, according to those scriptures, lying is acceptable if it is to serve the Lord. In the end times those who find Christ after the rapture must lie to survive. Also, why hurt someone's feelings by telling them the new haircut they like so much is uglier than Satan himself. I believe lying for selfish, immoral reasons is wrong. But for God's work it is necessary at times (smuggling Bibles into China), survival (telling a potential murderer your parents are in the shower when they call), or to avoid causing unnecessary pain or hurt feelings, as long as the reasoning is completely self-less

 

[BInC]

I can see the justification for telling a lie sometimes. In the world we live in, situations occur where no matter what you do, it will be a sin. That is just the way it is. I hate it, but it happens. You just have to choose the lesser of the two sins.

 

[DLraing]

Yes. There are clearly justifiable lies.

 

[Havoc]

Why not ask WND, Jack Chick, Bill Schnoebelen, and the host of others Christians look up to for information and guidance. These examples lie on a daily basis.

 

[Photini]

It is what is in our hearts, that justifies what we do and say.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Motive. If the intent of lying is harmful or malicious it's a sin.

What about pathological lying? Like someone who stretches the truth or exaggerates on a regular basis without having malicious intent, but just because that's what they've always done?

Michelle

 

[Miss Shelby]

Why not ask WND, Jack Chick, Bill Schnoebelen, and the host of others Christians look up to for information and guidance. These examples lie on a daily basis.

Yes. I think they are guilty of sinful lying. Well Jack Chick anways, I don't know those other two you mentioned.

Michelle

 

[BarbB]

What about pathological lying? Like someone who stretches the truth or exaggerates on a regular basis without having malicious intent, but just because that's what they've always done?

Michelle

This is one of the sins that the Holy Spirit has burned out of my life after being born-again. I used to lie all the time; so much more interesting than telling the truth. I lied most of my life. I do not lie any more. I have trouble with white lies, the the most I can do is a half-truth (Mom can't come to the phone right now) kind of thing!(Boy, your new haircut [which looks like Satan itself] is really cool, with it, in fashion, etc.)

 

[BarbB]

Your post has been reported. You are a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Mod's please delete this post after action! Thanks!

 

[Miss Shelby]

This is one of the sins that the Holy Spirit has burned out of my life after being born-again.

I agree. Lies I used to tell..(and will admit have done so even recently)--is when telemarketers call and say "Is Michelle there?" And I say 'NO' and then click...hang up on them. But I found that it is far more effective just to be direct with them and tell them to stop calling (take me off of your list) than to lie. And it is the appropriate way to handle it, not the sinful way.

That's how Jesus dealt with liars and manipulators. He made them be direct by being direct with them.

Michelle

 

[Miss Shelby]

Let's all just ignore the troll and move along with the discussion.

Michelle

 

[BarbB]

Ah, Michelle, you are a gooder person than I am!

I found myself in lying trouble when my niece, who has begun writing a piece of Christian fiction, asked me to read it again (I started last year). Her revisions were very good - what I read was at least as good as published Christian writers I've read. But she kept asking have I finished it yet. Finally, I had to admit that I hadn't. And she stopped pushing. Now, I'm finishing it so that she won't be disappointed and will get some feedback. Far better result and not from a lie!

When I start to tell a lie now, I literally lose my voice (thank you Lord for not making my nose grow ) and that makes me take the millesecond to ask why do I need to lie here! Thank you Holy Spirit!

 

[Salsa_1960]

It is what is in our hearts, that justifies what we do and say.

I think that was very well put.

I guess it's easy to look at the extremes like Corie ten Boom, the Midwives with Moses, and Rahab (with the spies on the roof) and say "ofcourse the were justified!"

The water gets muddy when my friend asks me what I think of her new hairstyle (which I may think looks dreadful). There is something to be said for tact and tact can be good, but complete honesty is sometimes necessary too. I would say that in the case of a hairstyle, tact would win out over complete honesty.

Is omission ever lying? Is leaving out pertinent information a form of lying? I guess Photini's comment/quote [see above] could answer that question as well.

OK. I'm asking too many questions in one post.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Think of the case of Martha and Mary. Martha wasn't telling an outright lie, but her motives were manipulative and dishonest. She wanted to lay a guilt trip on everyone in the household.

And Jesus basically said 'hey look, you made your choices and now you're all stressed out--don't take it out on us'--

See, there is a difference between telling a lie to save someones life, and then being manipulatively dishonest by trying to get people to do what you want them to do. Like Martha was doing. And it's worse...way worse. Actually, the first example wouldn't be sinful, while the latter would be.

Michelle

 

[Miss Shelby]

The water gets muddy when my friend asks me what I think of her new hairstyle (which I may think looks dreadful). There is something to be said for tact and tact can be good, but complete honesty is sometimes necessary too. I would say that in the case of a hairstyle, tact would win out over complete honesty.

This is my opinion. To offer the lie without solicitiation....'oh your new hairstyle is fabulous..' when inside you are gagging...isn't right. But if she puts you on the spot, what choice do you have? You could tell the truth but that would hurt her feelings. If you lie, it spares her feelings..and it isn't a matter of national security for crying out loud...it's hair. I say tell the white lie if you are put on the spot.

Is omission ever lying? Is leaving out pertinent information a form of lying? I guess Photini's comment/quote [see above] could answer that question as well.

OK. I'm asking too many questions in one post.

Depends on the situation.

Michelle

 

[Havoc]

Your post has been reported. You are a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Mod's please delete this post after action! Thanks!

I must have missed something. Which post were you referring to?

 

[Miss Shelby]

I must have missed something

They've been removed...we had a visit from a troll.. (not you)

Michelle

 

[Havoc]

They've been removed...we had a visit from a troll.. (not you)

Michelle

Ahh good. I do tend to be cryptic sometimes without realising it.

BTW my reference to WND was for WorldNet Daily. That's the "Christian" "News" source that many Christians read and swear by. There isn't a day go by they don't commit flagrant false witness. I can't help but wonder why a true Christian would even read WND, let alone quote them.

 

[Routerider]

Obviously, according to those scriptures, lying is acceptable if it is to serve the Lord.

Kent Hovind was always good at this.