Is Leviticus 11 the Teachings of Demons?

[TreWalker]

I already stated that not all sacrifices are sin sacrifices.

Food for thought. The Pesach lamb was not for atoning sin.

 

[HARK!]

Food for thought. The Pesach lamb was not for atoning sin.

That's more like a banquet; but the High Priest did execute the Yom Kippur functions.

Passover is a covering for death; and death is the consequence of sin. Passover is about deliverance to a kadosh nation.

The Levitical Priesthood will resume sacrifices in the Millennial Reign. I've been digging heavily into the facets of this subject; and I've only begun to scratch the surface if its' depth.

 

[pinacled]

Food for thought. The Pesach lamb was not for atoning sin.

According to whom?

 

[TreWalker]

According to whom?

Torah... Read Exodus 12 and show me where it atones for sin. Then show me the verse that describes the function of the sacrifice.

 

[pinacled]

Torah... Read Exodus 12 and show me where it atones for sin. Then show me the verse that describes the function of the sacrifice.

The transgression is from yosef being sold into slavery amongst other actions a few of the children of yisrayl behaved inordinately.
Discretion advised.

From vayikrah chapter 5-6 there are provisions from both The Lamb and doves to cover such transgression.

Doves representing repentance.
And a Lamb representing redemption in wholeness.

Something of The promise given avrhm that few find. Except those that seek..

Blessings Always.

 

[HARK!]

Torah... Read Exodus 12 and show me where it atones for sin. Then show me the verse that describes the function of the sacrifice.

That's one of the passages that I review before every Passover; as it applies to me.

However, in an attempt to answer Pinacled, I went to review the different types of sacrifices; and I stumbled onto Passover information that I don't keep in my files for review; because I'm not responsible for executing the instructions.

Here we go.

(CLV) Num 28:16
In the first month ion the fourteenth day ›of the month is the passover to Yahweh.

(CLV) Num 28:17
And ion the fifteenth day of this month is a festival. For seven days unleavened bread shall be eaten.

(CLV) Num 28:18
On the first day is a holy meeting when you shall do not occupational work at all.

(CLV) Num 28:19
You will bring near a fire offering, an ascent offering to Yahweh, two bull calves of the herd, one ram and seven year-old he-lambs; flawless shall they be for you.

It's my understanding that all ascent offerings are sin offerings.

 

[pinacled]

That's one of the passages that I review before every Passover; as it applies to me.

However, in an attempt to answer Pinacled, I went to review the different types of sacrifices; and I stumbled onto Passover information that I don't keep in my files for review; because I'm not responsible for executing the instructions.

Here we go.

(CLV) Num 28:16
In the first month ion the fourteenth day ›of the month is the passover to Yahweh.

(CLV) Num 28:17
And ion the fifteenth day of this month is a festival. For seven days unleavened bread shall be eaten.

(CLV) Num 28:18
On the first day is a holy meeting when you shall do not occupational work at all.

(CLV) Num 28:19
You will bring near a fire offering, an ascent offering to Yahweh, two bull calves of the herd, one ram and seven year-old he-lambs; flawless shall they be for you.

It's my understanding that all ascent offerings are sin offerings.

There is a reason for the number 7 covering a certain number of yom(days).

Blessings Always youngin

 

[HARK!]

There is a reason for the number 7 covering a certain number of yom(days).

Blessings Always

I should have kept reading, before I posted.


(CLV) Num 28:22
Also there is one hairy goat as a sin offering to make a propitiatory shelter- over you;

Clearly the Hag Matzot goat is a sin offering, that is entwined with Pesach.

Why do you suppose that Hag Matzot last for seven days; and why a lamb for each day?

 

[pinacled]

I should have kept reading, before I posted.


(CLV) Num 28:22
Also there is one hairy goat as a sin offering to make a propitiatory shelter- over you;

Clearly the Hag Matzot goat is a sin offering, that is entwined with Pesach.

Why do you suppose that Hag Matzot last for seven days; and why a lamb for each day?

Depends on whether it's a male or female concerning yrs

 

[pinacled]

I should have kept reading, before I posted.


(CLV) Num 28:22
Also there is one hairy goat as a sin offering to make a propitiatory shelter- over you;

Clearly the Hag Matzot goat is a sin offering, that is entwined with Pesach.

Why do you suppose that Hag Matzot last for seven days; and why a lamb for each day?

A female for 14 yrs.
A male for 7 yrs.

The seven and ten is the rez to seek in first-fruits

 

[TreWalker]

The transgression is from yosef being sold into slavery amongst other actions a few of the children of yisrayl behaved inordinately.
Discretion advised.

Yet, I know our Messiah will pass over the sins of the people not holding it against them. Just like in Egypt, when they call on him in Truth. He will do the will of those who fear him, and he will hear their cry and save them. Ashrei; tehillot David 149, from our daily prayers. He makes a way to turn our hearts back to him. The same way he made a way to turn the hearts of those in the nations. We are no different, in this way. Both have sinned and fallen short and both need to be brought through the gate in the merit of someone else. We have no merit to enter the gates by our own. We must be carried through.

From vayikrah chapter 5-6 there are provisions from both The Lamb and doves to cover such transgression.

Very true. Yet, show me where this deals with the Corban Pesach. It does not. Notice there is no offering for willful sins, only unintentional sins.

Now, about the lamb. In hebrew it's called a Seh.
Seh does not simply mean lamb. It’s Chevesim/sheep or Chevis/goat. Male or female Chivsah, or Cheves.

Exodus 12:3
12:5 says ‘unblemished male’ chevisim or goats. The Pesach 'Seh' was a young male goat called a Gidi. Basically a Seh could be male or female sheep or goat. A chevis, taleh, or eil(ram).

So why did John identify Messiah as Seh HaElokim? And what does the Pesach lamb have to do with taking away sins?

Here is another morsel. Slaughtering the Pesach was actually an act of slaughtering an Egyptian god. Banebdjedet was a ram/goat god. The seh could be both of them. God of rebirth. Ba=spirit of ebdjede. Manifestation of the god of the flesh. The Egyptians had to be able to recognize that the Jews were eating there gods.

 

[TreWalker]

And now HARK I must beg your forgiveness for going off-topic in your thread. Sorry. I just realized this was your baby. If you do not want to go down this road I will let you get back to your thread.

 

[pinacled]

Yet, I know our Messiah will pass over the sins of the people not holding it against them. Just like in Egypt, when they call on him in Truth. He will do the will of those who fear him, and he will hear their cry and save them. Ashrei; tehillot David 149, from our daily prayers. He makes a way to turn our hearts back to him. The same way he made a way to turn the hearts of those in the nations. We are no different, in this way. Both have sinned and fallen short and both need to be brought through the gate in the merit of someone else. We have no merit to enter the gates by our own. We must be carried through.

Very true. Yet, show me where this deals with the Corban Pesach. It does not. Notice there is no offering for willful sins, only unintentional sins.

Now, about the lamb. In hebrew it's called a Seh.
Seh does not simply mean lamb. It’s Chevesim/sheep or Chevis/goat. Male or female Chivsah, or Cheves.

Exodus 12:3
12:5 says ‘unblemished male’ chevisim or goats. The Pesach 'Seh' was a young male goat called a Gidi. Basically a Seh could be male or female sheep or goat. A chevis, taleh, or eil(ram).

So why did John identify Messiah as Seh HaElokim? And what does the Pesach lamb have to do with taking away sins?

Here is another morsel. Slaughtering the Pesach was actually an act of slaughtering an Egyptian god. Banebdjedet was a ram/goat god. The seh could be both of them. God of rebirth. Ba=spirit of ebdjede. Manifestation of the god of the flesh. The Egyptians had to be able to recognize that the Jews were eating there gods.

With provential accuracy there are specific distinctions between lamb and goat.
One such Torah ordination concerns discernment between fibers.
Ie wool spun and goat hair with hide for a covering as a sacrificial source.

Blessings Always

 

[HARK!]

And now HARK I must beg your forgiveness for going off-topic in your thread. Sorry. I just realized this was your baby. If you do not want to go down this road I will let you get back to your thread.

Absolutely not. There is nothing to forgive. This thread is now on page 10; and not one question from the OP has been answered. This thread has served it's purpose. It debunks the false doctrine that 1 Timothy 4 has anything to do with Leviticus 11. I can use the OP as a reference, in the future, for anyone who presents that fallacious argument. I had already allowed the discussion of sacrifices; in reference to how what Yahshua did at Calvary, didn't nullify the Torah.

This aspect of how the Torah is still active today, is more intriguing than any of the answers that I might expect in opposition to the irrefutable truth of the OP.

 

[pinacled]

Absolutely not. There is nothing to forgive. This thread is now on page 10; and not one question from the OP has been answered. This thread has served it's purpose. It debunks the false doctrine that 1 Timothy 4 has anything to do with Leviticus 11. I can use the OP as a reference, in the future, for anyone who presents that fallacious argument. I had already allowed the discussion of sacrifices; in reference to how what Yahshua did at Calvary, didn't nullify the Torah.

This aspect of how the Torah is still active today, is more intriguing than any of the answers that I might expect in opposition to the irrefutable truth of the OP.

Instead of starting many treads.

Ask a specific question and hold to patience.

Show hospitality with a single table.

Do you Understand?

 

[Victor in Christ]

The reformed Christian view on Leviticus 11.

Teaching the Holiness of God

 

[BobRyan]

I already stated that not all sacrifices are sin sacrifices.

How does the New Moon sacrifice relate to what happened at Calvary? .

Numbers 28:11-15
And in the beginnings of your months you shall offer a burnt offering to the LORD; two young bullocks, and one ram, seven lambs of the first year without spot;

1. All sin offerings are burnt offerings. I am guessing we all agree on this one.
2. They are all offered by duly appointed priests. Saul tried it and was rebuked.
3. Heb 7 says that the Earthly priesthood ended.
4. Heb 10 says that the "sacrifices and offerings" ended at the cross.

Heb 10
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”

8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, ..

19 Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,

============================
So given that differences of opinion do exist -- here is the one I hold to from the statements above.

<I just noticed that this is in the MJ forum area of the board -- I am not certain my post as stated below -- is allowed. Sorry about that>

1. Heb 10 is speaking of "Sacrifices and offerings" in general and not making the point "some animal sacrifices and offerings still continue" which is probably our key point of difference.

2. The purpose of the sacrifices and offerings was to remove all the barriers between man and God so we would have access to God. Heb 10 says "Access to God" is granted because of the once-for-all sacrifice of Christ.

3. Heb 10:4 says that the animal sacrifices never actually did work for removing sin - because forgiveness of sins even in the OT was based on the blood of Christ alone. Which is how Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glorified form in Matthew 17 - even before the cross. This happens under the "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 preached to Abraham Gal 3:8

4. In heaven there is "no more death" -- so killing animals is not going to be going on there.

5. the first animal sacrifice is in Genesis 3 and 4 - animals slain after the fall of man. But the saints are fully redeemed at the 2nd coming.

6. Heb 9:22 - "without the shedding of blood - there is no forgiveness of sins"

================================

If I understand your argument here, it is -

1. Not all animal sacrifices were for the purpose of getting forgiveness of sins

2. In a perfectly sinless universe (Rev 21) God would want animals killed as an act of worship, an act of showing gratitude -- without any reference to sin, or needing a mediator. Death, killing animals, would still be a part of the worship experience.

And I think you may have more points on this side as well.

=============================

Having said all of that ... what does any of it have to do with Lev 11? As far as I can tell Lev 11 does not mention sacrificing animals in order to know that one is not supposed have rat or cat or bat sandwiches for lunch.

 

[BobRyan]

(CLV) 1Ti 4:1
Now the spirit is saying explicitly, that in subsequent eras some will be withdrawing from the faith,

Have those, who are obedient to YHWH's perfect Torah, withdrawn from faith?

no.

(CLV)
giving heed to deceiving spirits

Was Leviticus 11 given by deceiving spirits?

and the teachings of demons,

No and no.

(CLV) 1Ti 4:2
in the hypocrisy

Are those who claim to follow YHWH, while observing Leviticus 11, hypocrites?

No

of false expressions, their own conscience having been cauterized;

Is Leviticus 11 a lie?

(CLV) 1Ti 4:3
forbidding to marry,

Does Leviticus 11 forbid marriage?

No

abstaining from foods,

Does Leviticus 11 tell us that unclean animals are food?

which God creates to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who believe and realize the truth,

Did YHWH declare that it's OK do disobey his word with thanksgiving?

(CLV) 1Ti 4:4
seeing that every creature of God is ideal and nothing is to be cast away, being taken with thanksgiving,

Are unclean creatures given as food of YHWH?

(CLV) 1Ti 4:5
for it is hallowed through the word of God

Agreed that food that is approved of in the Word of God is good to eat

(CLV) 1Ti 4:6
By suggesting these things to the brethren, you should be an ideal servant of Christ Jesus, fostering with the words of faith and of the ideal teaching which you have fully followed.

Didn't Yahshua's entire ministry, teach obedience to YHWH's perfect Torah, unto death?

True God calls for obedience to the Word of God not rebellion. Rev 14:12

(CLV) 1Ti 4:7
Now profane and old womanish myths refuse,

Is Leviticus 11 an old wives tale?

No - it is part of the Word of God

yet exercise yourself in devoutness,

Is ignoring YHWH's perfect Torah, an exercise of devotion?

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we keep His Commandments"

 

[HARK!]

Numbers 28:11-15
And in the beginnings of your months you shall offer a burnt offering to the LORD; two young bullocks, and one ram, seven lambs of the first year without spot;

1. All sin offerings are burnt offerings. I am guessing we all agree on this one.
2. They are all offered by duly appointed priests. Saul tried it and was rebuked.
3. Heb 7 says that the Earthly priesthood ended.
4. Heb 10 says that the "sacrifices and offerings" ended at the cross.

Heb 10
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
“Sacrifice and offering You have not desired,
But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come
(In the scroll of the book it is written of Me)
To do Your will, O God.’”

8 After saying above, “Sacrifices and offerings and whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have not desired, nor have You taken pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the Law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; 12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, ..

19 Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,

============================
So given that differences of opinion do exist -- here is the one I hold to from the statements above.

1. Heb 10 is speaking of "Sacrifices and offerings" in general and not making the point "some animal sacrifices and offerings still continue" which is probably our key point of difference.

2. The purpose of the sacrifices and offerings was to remove all the barriers between man and God so we would have access to God. Heb 10 says "Access to God" is granted because of the once-for-all sacrifice of Christ.

3. Heb 10:4 says that the animal sacrifices never actually did work for removing sin - because forgiveness of sins even in the OT was based on the blood of Christ alone. Which is how Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glorified form in Matthew 17 - even before the cross. This happens under the "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 preached to Abraham Gal 3:8

4. In heaven there is "no more death" -- so killing animals is not going to be going on there.

5. the first animal sacrifice is in Genesis 3 and 4 - animals slain after the fall of man. But the saints are fully redeemed at the 2nd coming.

6. Heb 9:22 - "without the shedding of blood - there is no forgiveness of sins"

================================

If I understand your argument here, it is -

1. Not all animal sacrifices were for the purpose of getting forgiveness of sins

2. In a perfectly sinless universe (Rev 21) God would want animals killed as an act of worship, an act of showing gratitude -- without any reference to sin, or needing a mediator. Death, killing animals, would still be a part of the worship experience.

And I think you may have more points on this side as well.

=============================

Having said all of that ... what does any of it have to do with Lev 11? As far as I can tell Lev 11 does not mention sacrificing animals in order to know that one is not supposed have rat or cat or bat sandwiches for lunch.

Thank you for your insight. I'll take a deep look at the scripture you presented at another time.

You could find out how this thread evolved into a discussion on sacrifice by following all of the bunny holes in this thread. It's complicated. I wont ask you to do that; because your next post is the first post, after the OP, that has done this thread justice.

 

[BobRyan]

Thank you for your insight. I'll take a deep lok at the scripture you presented at another time.

You could find out how this thread evolved into a discussion on sacrifice by following all of the bunny holes in this thread. It's complicated. I wont ask you to do that; because your next post is the first post, after the OP, that has done this thread justice.

Thanks. Just FYI - for some reason I was not paying attention and did not notice that this is in the MJ forum area and not Sabbath and Law so I am not entirely sure that my post regarding Hebrews 10 and my own views on it is valid for me to have here. If not I apologize -- I added that note to my post.