Is learning Greek Philosophy useful?

trophy33 · Dec 13, 2018

mmksparbud said:
Which is why Greek philosophy crept into the bible and distorted some concepts that the Jews never had, which means God didn't either as He is the one (Holy Spirit) that inspired the bible, not the Greeks.

Jews are not God. Jews were lacking many concepts which are good and true.

trophy33 · Dec 13, 2018

mmksparbud said:
No--the heresy is the Greek philosophy.

Its time of nations, now. All nations can participate in the grace and glory of the true religion.

Now, the heresy is the isolated Jewish judaism.

Dave-W · Dec 13, 2018

myst33 said:
Jews are not God.

True; it is the other way around.

Jesus (Fully God) is and was a Jew.

trophy33 · Dec 13, 2018

Dave-W said:
True; it is the other way around.

Jesus (Fully God) is and was a Jew.

The Logos, eternal Son of Father, is not a Jew.

"Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer."
2C 5:16

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God"
Rev 1:8

Dave-W · Dec 13, 2018

myst33 said:
The Logos, eternal Son of Father, is not a Jew.

Galatians 4:4
But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, [a Jew]

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

He was born a Jew, He remains a Jew forever.
Being Jewish is not a matter of flesh; it is a matter of COVENANT.

trophy33 · Dec 13, 2018

Dave-W said:
Galatians 4:4
But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, [a Jew]

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

He was born a Jew, He remains a Jew forever.
Being Jewish is not a matter of flesh; it is a matter of COVENANT.

Your application of Heb 13:8 would mean that Logos could not incarnate, because it would not be the same after it.

If you say that Logos is still the same, then it cannot be "a Jew" because of being born of a woman.

Dave-W · Dec 13, 2018

myst33 said:
Your application of Heb 13:8 would mean that Logos could not incarnate, because it would not be the same after it.

"after"

God exists outside of time so that term is meaningless.

God created mankind in His own image, AFTER creating light and dark and time itself. [which means that at that point the word means something] But what was that image? The fully Human Christ that walked the earth.

The same yesterday today and forever. The incarnation is part of eternity.

Even His death is part of eternity:

Revelation 13:8 KJV
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

trophy33 · Dec 13, 2018

Dave-W said:
"after"

God exists outside of time so that term is meaningless.

So you believe that He was always born of a woman?

Dave-W · Dec 13, 2018

myst33 said:
So you believe that He was always born of a woman?

Since eternity is outside of time, that would have to be a yes.

trophy33 · Dec 13, 2018

Dave-W said:
Since eternity is outside of time, that would have to be a yes.

So, you believe that everything is eternally existing? For example that Mary was always existing?

Dave-W · Dec 13, 2018

myst33 said:
So, you believe that everything is eternally existing?

That depends on how you define it.
Only born again people with eternal life are eternally existing.

I do not think inanimate "things" would qualify.

For example that Mary was always existing?

If you believe she was a born again believer (in this world) then yes. Once we get eternal life, that goes back to the start of eternity.

Radagast · Dec 13, 2018

Dave-W said:
He was born a Jew, He remains a Jew forever.
Being Jewish is not a matter of flesh; it is a matter of COVENANT.

In so far as Jesus is God, He was never a Jew.

In so far as Jesus is human, He was born a Jew, but is a Jew no longer. Jesus keeps no Jewish rituals in heaven. There is no synagogue in the sky.

Dave-W · Dec 13, 2018

Radagast said:
In so far as Jesus is human, He was born a Jew, but is a Jew no longer.

Then you disagree with Hebrews 13:8.

trophy33 · Dec 13, 2018

Dave-W said:
That depends on how you define it.
Only born again people with eternal life are eternally existing.

I do not think inanimate "things" would qualify.

If you believe she was a born again believer (in this world) then yes. Once we get eternal life, that goes back to the start of eternity.

You believe that the Logos was always born of a woman. Therefore, you must also believe that the women must be always existing, no?

W2L · Dec 13, 2018

Greek philosophers sought after wisdom, but the true wisdom of God is the cross, not mans philosophy. This scripture comes to mind. Perhaps it will be useful.

1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the [a]message preached to save those who believe. 22 For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; 23 but we preach [c]Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, 24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For [d]consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to [e]the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29 so that no [f]man may boast before God. 30 But [g]by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, [h]and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written, “Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

Dave-W · Dec 13, 2018

myst33 said:
You believe that the Logos was always born of a woman. Therefore, you must also believe that the women must be always existing, no?

"always existing," You are tying it to time.

It is outside of time.
"eternally existing" is not the same thing.

Radagast · Dec 13, 2018

And it is serious heresy to say that Mary has eternally existed, as a kind of "4th Person of the Trinity."

This sounds like the medieval Jewish Neo-Platonism of the Kabbalah gone wild, with a dash of Christianity on top.

trophy33 · Dec 13, 2018

Dave-W said:
"always existing," You are tying it to time.

It is outside of time.
"eternally existing" is not the same thing.

Whats the difference between "always" and "eternally", for you?

Radagast · Dec 13, 2018

Dave-W said:
Then you disagree with Hebrews 13:8.

That verse does not remotely say anything like that Jesus Christ continues to be a practising Jew.

In fact, it's blasphemy to even suggest such a thing.

Dave-W · Dec 13, 2018

myst33 said:
Whats the difference between "always" and "eternally", for you?

"Always" is time based, "eternity" is not.

Is learning Greek Philosophy useful?

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