Is Jesus the Savior of the Whole World?

[Robert Pate]

This is almost like asking if Jesus is the Son of God.

What did John mean when he wrote, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not ours only, BUT ALSO FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD," 1 John 2:2.

And then again John wrote, "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD," 1 John 4:14.

Even Paul wrote, "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trepasses unto them," 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Jesus also claimed to be the savior of the world. "For I came not to judge the world, BUT TO SAVE THE WORLD," John 12:47.

If we are going to believe that the Bible is the word of God and is a witness to the Christ Event and is written so that we might believe that Jesus is the Christ. Then we must believe that Jesus is the savior of the whole world.

The next question is... HOW DID JESUS SAVE THE WORLD?

If you ask a Calvinist how Jesus saved the world most will say that Jesus only saved the world of the elect. Some believe that Jesus has saved the world but it is not given to all to believe it, just them. The Bible clearly and plainly tells us how Jesus has saved the world, all one needs to do is read it and believe it.

Are you ready? This next scripture is like the Gospel in a nut shell.

"Therefore as by the offense of one (Adam) judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Christ) THE FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life," Romans 5:17.

Jesus Christ is God's great FREE GIFT for all of humanity. It is not Jesus coming into your heart that saves you, it is Jesus coming into the world that saves us. God in the person of Jesus Christ clothes himself in human flesh and becomes one with us, but not one of us. By his righteous life he offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience to his Holy Law. He does this in our name and on our behalf. It is this life that justifies us, Romans 3:26.

That was not enough, "For he has made him (Christ) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him, 2 Corinthians 5:21.

In Jesus Christ God has put the old Adamic race to death, Romans 6:6. In the crucifixion of Christ God has defeated sin, death and the devil. The resurrection is God's declaration that his Son Jesus Christ has victoriously conquered sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15. When Jesus ascended into heaven our new humanity ascended into heaven with him. This is what Paul meant when he wrote, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation: old things have passed away; behold all things have become new," Romans 5:17.

Jesus Christ is God's new humanity. If you are "In Christ" you are part of God's new humanity. To be "In Christ" means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your sins. If you are "In Christ" God does not see you any more. When he looks at you all he can see is his Son Jesus Christ, "For you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God," Colossians 3:3.

This is what John meant when he said that Jesus is the savior of the world. This is also what Paul meant when he said that we have been reconciled unto God. There is no room in this Gospel for predestination. There is no room in this Gospel for religion. This Gospel is about how Jesus has provided salvation for ALL who want to be saved.

 

[nobdysfool]

Robert, stop playing the "my doctrine is right because Calvinism is wrong" card. It is a logical fallacy that proves nothing, and shows that you are more interested in antagonizing fellow believers than you are in actually fighting the powers of darkness. Spend that energy fighting Satan, not other Christians.

 

[hlaltimus]

Yes, he is the Savior of the whole world...yes and no that is.

His death was only a sacrifice that made the blood of atonement available, the sacrifice and the atonement being two different steps towards the one objective of humanity's redemption. The death of Jesus Christ however, (IMHO,) unconditionally and unsolicitedly did in fact redeem all of mankind up to but not beyond the age of accountability, while conditionally and particularly redeeming some of mankind thereafter. No one is in hell for the punishment of their sins of infancy or childhood, and that is one of the reasons why they "weep" as well "gnash teeth" in that awful dungeon of despair. They gnash their teeth over a physical pain inflicted upon them by physical torments, but they weep in sorrow and remorse over a legitmate salvation that was placed squarely in their hands at the very onset of their conscious existence, but eventually and foolishly slighted, neglected and lost.

Beyond the age of accountability the blood of atonement, (or more properly expiation,) is applied conditionally and particularly to some men or women upon the terms of true, justifying faith, and that faith is a gift bestowed upon any willing sinner by God, given there is already some evidence of repentance presently at work in the sinner. Here is the position of most Calvinists over a particular and effectual redemption, and they are correct...particularly speaking! The prior paragraph though, would roughly represent most Arminians, and they also are correct along the very same lines of perspective truth, depending upon how you look at it. You will never be able to talk either group out of their solid and convicted opinions, and this is one of the underlying, (but unobvious,) reasons why: They both know that they are right.

 

[ChristianT]

unconditionally and unsolicitedly

...faith is a gift bestowed upon any willing sinner by God, given there is already some evidence of repentance presently at work in the sinner....

Can you explain to me how this holds? If it was unconditional, wouldn't faith be given based on no condition, i.e. repentance? And if it was unsolicited, the person wouldn't have to do anything to get it, as that would imply solicitation.

Also, when you talk about the non-biblical doctrine of "age of acountability," age then becomes the condition of the "unconditional gift."

 

[Ignatius21]

Robert, you make some interesting points. Mind if I make a few observations and ask a few questions?

"Therefore as by the offense of one (Adam) judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Christ) THE FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life," Romans 5:17.

Jesus Christ is God's great FREE GIFT for all of humanity. It is not Jesus coming into your heart that saves you, it is Jesus coming into the world that saves us. God in the person of Jesus Christ clothes himself in human flesh and becomes one with us, but not one of us. By his righteous life he offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience to his Holy Law. He does this in our name and on our behalf. It is this life that justifies us, Romans 3:26.

What do you mean by these two things:

"It is not Jesus coming into your heart that saves you, it is Jesus coming into the world that saves us."

"God in the person of Jesus Christ clothes himself in human flesh and becomes one with us, but not one of us."

Regarding the first, do you see the two ideas as opposed? I agree that Jesus coming into the world saves us, in the universal sense. The church fathers (some prominent examples can be found, I believe, in Irenaeus...slightly later in Athanasius) saw Jesus' incarnation as the restoration of humanity itself--human nature--the rescuing of our nature from the clutches of sin and death and corruption. I don't know whether they spoke of "Jesus coming into your heart," but they did speak of salvation as union with Christ. Real union. They would say that after the Incarnation, life, death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus, all of creation was "saved" and mankind elevated not just to "pardoned in court" as it were, but actually to participation in the divine life of the Trinity.

Regarding the second...when you say "not one of us," do you mean that he wasn't a sinner like us? He certainly was one of us in all things except sin. I found your wording a bit ambiguous, is all.

That was not enough, "For he has made him (Christ) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him, 2 Corinthians 5:21.

In Jesus Christ God has put the old Adamic race to death, Romans 6:6. In the crucifixion of Christ God has defeated sin, death and the devil. The resurrection is God's declaration that his Son Jesus Christ has victoriously conquered sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15. When Jesus ascended into heaven our new humanity ascended into heaven with him. This is what Paul meant when he wrote, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation: old things have passed away; behold all things have become new," Romans 5:17.

Amen, brother! Your phrasing sounds almost exactly like how one would describe the essentials of atonement as understood by the early church. What you've written here captures the essence of St. Athanasius' understanding of the Incarnation (and he, for the most part, included all of Christ's saving work under the heading of "Incarnation"). In life, he rendered perfect love and obedience to God the Father on behalf of fallen humanity (Adam). In death, he accepted death on behalf of all (all humanity) and carred humanity down into the grave with him, into Sheol/Hades, and humanity was raised in his resurrection.

Jesus Christ is God's new humanity. If you are "In Christ" you are part of God's new humanity. To be "In Christ" means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your sins.

Frequently in evangelicalism, salvation is described and understood in very individualistic terms. All who "accept Jesus as personal Lord and Savior" are individually saved, and then the Church is seen as the collection of all the "saved" people. I believe (and this would be the Orthodox position, as well as the Catholic and other ancient communions) that (as you seem to say) it is humanity which is saved, and it is through faith that individuals participate in this saved and redeemed humanity. Put another way, it is the Body of Christ that is saved (after all, it was his body that was resurrected), and the Church is (and is always becoming) the Body of Christ.

Although I would add that without exception that I'm aware of (and this comes after reading a substantial amount of historical theology), baptism was seen as the point of regeneration and union with Christ, as Paul says, all who were buried with Christ in baptism will be raised with Christ. But of course, personal faith was never separated from baptism. Simply being immersed in a river wasn't a magical ticket to the New Creation. But anyone who came to faith naturally would be baptized.

If you are "In Christ" God does not see you any more. When he looks at you all he can see is his Son Jesus Christ, "For you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God," Colossians 3:3.

Although the Orthodox would not use this phrasing, I believe I understand what you mean by this. We do not speak in terms of legal/forensic imputation of "alien righteousness" etc, but we state unequivocally that we are accepted by God the Father as among the righteous, only because we are "hid with Christ," branches joined to the vine, and bearing fruit. Our lives are a process of deepening the union that is already real. Already, but not yet. Like marriage (the analogy for Christ and the Church!) A marriage is real and absolute the instant it is declared to be so by God...and yet the rest of the couple's life is spent in the realization of what has already been established.

This is what John meant when he said that Jesus is the savior of the world. This is also what Paul meant when he said that we have been reconciled unto God. There is no room in this Gospel for predestination. There is no room in this Gospel for religion. This Gospel is about how Jesus has provided salvation for ALL who want to be saved.

Referring again to the ancient understanding of the Incarnation (all of the first seven ecumenical councils were, to one degree or another, specifically about the Incarnation or its ramifications), I believe the position could be stated as, since the Son of God was united to human nature, understood as a universal reality, all who share in that nature can be saved. When joined to Christ's resurrected humanity through baptism (our own death and resurrection) and faith, we (through his Incarnation) are united to the Trinity itself. I myself don't think predestination in the Calvinistic sense is compatible with this view.

Have you read the early fathers? Athanasius' "On the Incarnation of the Word of God?"

 

[Carmella Prochaska]

But it was the Lord’s good plan to crush him and cause him grief. Yet when his life is made an offering for sin, he will have many descendants. He will enjoy a long life, and the Lord’s good plan will prosper in his hands. When he sees all that is accomplished by his anguish, he will be satisfied. And because of his experience, my righteous servant will make it possible for many to be counted righteous, for he will bear all their sins. I will give him the honors of a victorious soldier, because he exposed himself to death. He was counted among the rebels. He bore the sins of many and interceded for rebels. (Isaiah 53:10-12)

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert, you make some interesting points. Mind if I make a few observations and ask a few questions?



What do you mean by these two things:

"It is not Jesus coming into your heart that saves you, it is Jesus coming into the world that saves us."

"God in the person of Jesus Christ clothes himself in human flesh and becomes one with us, but not one of us."

Regarding the first, do you see the two ideas as opposed? I agree that Jesus coming into the world saves us, in the universal sense. The church fathers (some prominent examples can be found, I believe, in Irenaeus...slightly later in Athanasius) saw Jesus' incarnation as the restoration of humanity itself--human nature--the rescuing of our nature from the clutches of sin and death and corruption. I don't know whether they spoke of "Jesus coming into your heart," but they did speak of salvation as union with Christ. Real union. They would say that after the Incarnation, life, death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus, all of creation was "saved" and mankind elevated not just to "pardoned in court" as it were, but actually to participation in the divine life of the Trinity.

Regarding the second...when you say "not one of us," do you mean that he wasn't a sinner like us? He certainly was one of us in all things except sin. I found your wording a bit ambiguous, is all.

That was not enough, "For he has made him (Christ) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him, 2 Corinthians 5:21.


Amen, brother! Your phrasing sounds almost exactly like how one would describe the essentials of atonement as understood by the early church. What you've written here captures the essence of St. Athanasius' understanding of the Incarnation (and he, for the most part, included all of Christ's saving work under the heading of "Incarnation"). In life, he rendered perfect love and obedience to God the Father on behalf of fallen humanity (Adam). In death, he accepted death on behalf of all (all humanity) and carred humanity down into the grave with him, into Sheol/Hades, and humanity was raised in his resurrection.



Frequently in evangelicalism, salvation is described and understood in very individualistic terms. All who "accept Jesus as personal Lord and Savior" are individually saved, and then the Church is seen as the collection of all the "saved" people. I believe (and this would be the Orthodox position, as well as the Catholic and other ancient communions) that (as you seem to say) it is humanity which is saved, and it is through faith that individuals participate in this saved and redeemed humanity. Put another way, it is the Body of Christ that is saved (after all, it was his body that was resurrected), and the Church is (and is always becoming) the Body of Christ.

Although I would add that without exception that I'm aware of (and this comes after reading a substantial amount of historical theology), baptism was seen as the point of regeneration and union with Christ, as Paul says, all who were buried with Christ in baptism will be raised with Christ. But of course, personal faith was never separated from baptism. Simply being immersed in a river wasn't a magical ticket to the New Creation. But anyone who came to faith naturally would be baptized.



Although the Orthodox would not use this phrasing, I believe I understand what you mean by this. We do not speak in terms of legal/forensic imputation of "alien righteousness" etc, but we state unequivocally that we are accepted by God the Father as among the righteous, only because we are "hid with Christ," branches joined to the vine, and bearing fruit. Our lives are a process of deepening the union that is already real. Already, but not yet. Like marriage (the analogy for Christ and the Church!) A marriage is real and absolute the instant it is declared to be so by God...and yet the rest of the couple's life is spent in the realization of what has already been established.



Referring again to the ancient understanding of the Incarnation (all of the first seven ecumenical councils were, to one degree or another, specifically about the Incarnation or its ramifications), I believe the position could be stated as, since the Son of God was united to human nature, understood as a universal reality, all who share in that nature can be saved. When joined to Christ's resurrected humanity through baptism (our own death and resurrection) and faith, we (through his Incarnation) are united to the Trinity itself. I myself don't think predestination in the Calvinistic sense is compatible with this view.

Have you read the early fathers? Athanasius' "On the Incarnation of the Word of God?"

We are NOT saved by Jesus coming into our hearts, that is Roman Catholicism and is very subjective. The Gospel is objective or outside of us. We did not participate in our salvation, it took place totally and completely outside of us. It is so far outside of us that it happened over 2000 years ago. Salvation is ours by simple faith.

In the incarnation Jesus comes into the world as the new Adam and as humanities representative. His purpose is to restore or reconcile fallen humanity to God. He does this by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. We are accepted only "In Christ."

No I have not read anything by Athanasius.

 

[Epoisses]

Robert, stop playing the "my doctrine is right because Calvinism is wrong" card. It is a logical fallacy that proves nothing, and shows that you are more interested in antagonizing fellow believers than you are in actually fighting the powers of darkness. Spend that energy fighting Satan, not other Christians.

Nobbyfool, stop playing the "my doctrine is right because Arminianism is wrong" card. It is a logical fallacy that proves nothing, and shows that you are more interested in antagonizing fellow believers than you are in actually fighting the powers of darkness. Spend that energy fighting Satan, not other Christians.

 

[Epoisses]

Are you ready? This next scripture is like the Gospel in a nut shell.

"Therefore as by the offense of one (Adam) judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Christ) THE FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life," Romans 5:17.

Jesus Christ is God's great FREE GIFT for all of humanity. It is not Jesus coming into your heart that saves you, it is Jesus coming into the world that saves us. God in the person of Jesus Christ clothes himself in human flesh and becomes one with us, but not one of us. By his righteous life he offers to God the Father a life of perfect obedience to his Holy Law. He does this in our name and on our behalf. It is this life that justifies us, Romans 3:26.

I've been trying to get others to share their opposing view for Romans chap. 5 for sometime now. This only happens to be my favorite chapter in the whole bible. These are the verses that Jesus used to lead me out of the legalism hell I found myself in about 15 years ago. I wouldn't wish that experience on my worst enemy.

I've been studying them ever since. These words are the power of God that show foolish sinners how to look beyond themselves. They are the heart and soul of the gospel and the reason why a limited atonement is so offensive to a just and holy God.

 

[sculleywr]

Robert, stop playing the "my doctrine is right because Calvinism is wrong" card. It is a logical fallacy that proves nothing, and shows that you are more interested in antagonizing fellow believers than you are in actually fighting the powers of darkness. Spend that energy fighting Satan, not other Christians.

isn't this a logical fallacy?? I don't know...

:opens giant book of logical fallacies:

Ah yes:

An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an argument made personally against an opponent instead of against their argument.[1] Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as an informal fallacy,[2][3][4] more precisely an irrelevance.[5]


1 ^ "ad hominem: West's Encyclopedia of American Law". Answers.com. 2007-09-10. Archived from the original on 12 October 2009. Retrieved 2009-11-08.
2 ^ Walton, Douglas (2008). Informal Logic: A Pragmatic Approach. Cambridge University Press. p. 190.
3 ^ Bowell, Tracy; Kemp, Gary (2010). Critical Thinking: A Concise Guide. Abingdon, Oxon: Routledge. pp. 210–213. ISBN 0-415-47183-4.
4 ^ Copi, Irving M. (1986). Informal Logic. Macmillan. pp. 112–113. ISBN 0-02-324940-4.
5 ^ "AdHominem". Drury.edu. Archived from the original on 11 December 2009. Retrieved 2009-11-08.​

Do us all a favor. If you aren't going to argue the points proper, abandon the discussion. Ad Hominem posts are hardly edifying and mark a lack of ability to respond in a logical manner. Rather than proving your point, you make your opponent's position appear stronger by leaving his points uncontested.

 

[sculleywr]

We are NOT saved by Jesus coming into our hearts, that is Roman Catholicism and is very subjective. The Gospel is objective or outside of us. We did not participate in our salvation, it took place totally and completely outside of us. It is so far outside of us that it happened over 2000 years ago. Salvation is ours by simple faith.

In the incarnation Jesus comes into the world as the new Adam and as humanities representative. His purpose is to restore or reconcile fallen humanity to God. He does this by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. We are accepted only "In Christ."

No I have not read anything by Athanasius.

You would be edified and educated by reading the writings of the man who was exiled five times, chased by a legion of soldiers, and falsely accused of murder, all because he refused to accept the Arian heresies that Christ is not God. His defense of the Nicene faith of Christ being of the same essence as God is a great reminder to us all of just how important the truth of the faith is.

 

[sculleywr]

We are NOT saved by Jesus coming into our hearts, that is Roman Catholicism and is very subjective. The Gospel is objective or outside of us. We did not participate in our salvation, it took place totally and completely outside of us. It is so far outside of us that it happened over 2000 years ago. Salvation is ours by simple faith.

In the incarnation Jesus comes into the world as the new Adam and as humanities representative. His purpose is to restore or reconcile fallen humanity to God. He does this by doing for us that which we cannot do for ourselves. We are accepted only "In Christ."

No I have not read anything by Athanasius.

Also, Ignatius didn't suggest we are saved by Christ coming into our hearts. I believe his words were that we are saved by "union, real union with Christ".

 

[cygnusx1]

Jesus is the saviour of the world

Jesus is not trying To save the world if the world lets him , He has saved the world , mission accomplished !

Jesus has overcome the world and the god of this world

Jesus has blotted out the sins of the world

Jesus has taken away the sins of the world , not merely provided the possibility but actually has taken away the sins of the world

There how's that !

 

[dollarsbill]

"Is Jesus the Savior of the Whole World?"

Yes He is, but this is conditional upon repentance.

 

[cygnusx1]

"Is Jesus the Savior of the Whole World?"

Yes He is, but this is conditional upon repentance.

Jesus doesn't place His Office as Saviour of the world upon the condition men agree to repent , Jesus is The Saviour of the world by Divine appointment !

What is more Jesus is not a saviour in name only , just as He is not a king in name only , He is the saviour of the world because He came to save the world and He accomplished absolute one hundred percent success in Saving the world !

 

[dollarsbill]

Jesus doesn't place His Office as Saviour of the world upon the condition men agree to repent , Jesus is The Saviour of the world by Divine appointment !

Very unscriptural.

What is more Jesus is not a saviour in name only , just as He is not a king in name only , He is the saviour of the world because He came to save the world and He accomplished absolute one hundred percent success in Saving the world !

Are you saying that everyone will be saved?

 

[cygnusx1]

Very unscriptural.

Are you saying that everyone will be saved?

What is unscriptural about it ? God made Christ Lord And Saviour , his office and His work doesn't depend upon sinners .

Christ came to save the world , are you arguing He failed ?

I say Christ saved the world 100% success rate mission accomplished .

 

[dollarsbill]

What is unscriptural about it ? God made Christ Lord And Saviour , his office and His work doesn't depend upon sinners .

Christ came to save the world , are you arguing He failed ?

I say Christ saved the world 100% success rate mission accomplished .

Only true if you ignore many Scriptures.

Matthew 25 (NASB)
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

 

[cygnusx1]

Only true if you ignore many Scriptures.

Matthew 25 (NASB)
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

I don't ignore any scriptures , and I repeat Christ came with a mission to save the world , are you saying he failed ?

 

[dollarsbill]

I don't ignore any scriptures , and I repeat Christ came with a mission to save the world , are you saying he failed ?

You didn't comment on the Scripture.