Is Jesus God himself or the son of God?

[curious mike]

I have now started on the book of Revelations and not understanding this, if God was Jesus himself then why is Jesus referred to as the "son of God"?

John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and
dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten
of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

This gives no doubt that it was Jesus
who made everything including the earth, heavens, sun, moon, oceans and He
created man as seen in the first 3 scriptures of the Gospel of John. But verse
14 tells us that the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us as the true Son of
God.

The four gospels show Jesus as a Lion,
Calf, Man, and Eagle. The Eagle is symbolic of God. This is the message that
John brought in his gospel, that Jesus was in fact God who took on the form of
flesh and dwelt among us. less

 

[tomartomau]

Jesus is God, made man. Early heresies tried to seperate God from man, thus we have the Nicene Creed.

Jesus is often referred to as the Word of God also in scripture.
I particularly like the book of revelation as it inspires me in my faith, also there is a special blessing accompanied with this book. I find it strengthening also.

 

[Albion]

Jesus is often referred to as the Word of God also in scripture.

Actually, he is not "often" referred to in that way. He's God, all right, but this is some sort of popular myth that people use to prove their argument when they rightly insist that to be the Son of God does not mean a lesser god, a God-man, or anything like that.

 

[JackRT]

Messiah means literally "anointed one" and was the common way in which the Jews referred to kings of the dynasty of David. "Anointed" refers of course to the method of coronation of the Jewish kings. It translated into the Greek as "Christos". The Jews regarded themselves as a "theocracy"... a kingdom ruled by God. The Jews also envisaged a (metaphorical) throne room in which there were three thrones. God occupied the central throne. At "the right hand of God" was the throne of the "king messiah" who was the reigning king of the house and family of David. At "the left hand of God" was the throne of the "priest messiah" who was the high priest of the house and family of Zadok. Ideally there were always two messiahs who were known collectively as the "sons of God". All these terms, "messiah", "kingdom of God", "at the right hand of God" and "son of God" were political rather than religious statements. It was a later generation of gentile Christians who re-interpreted these phrases in a very different religious sense. Both before and after the death of Jesus the early Christians, who were, after all, practicing Jews, understood these terms in their traditional sense. Jesus in claiming to be the messiah had not committed any blasphemy... there was no religious crime that the high priest could legitimately charge him with. That is why they went to the Romans to do the job.

 

[Merlin]

Jesus is both the son of God and God himself.
The confusion lies in trying to understand it in human terms .
The Bible tries to describe it so that you can understand.

Jesus as a human being was a son of God in that God became human.
Thus God was housed in a human body. While he was in human form he was limited
in Godly attributes. He was a part of God in the same way that a fleshly son is a part of his father.

 

[curious mike]

So if God came down to earth in the form of a human [Jesus], then this means no one was manning the universe or God was absent watching over the world during all those years that Jesus lived? Or was God able to split himself in two?

 

[Merlin]

I think "split in two" would be the best analogy in this case.
not exact, but the best analogy .

 

[Albion]

So if God came down to earth in the form of a human [Jesus], then this means no one was manning the universe or God was absent watching over the world during all those years that Jesus lived? Or was God able to split himself in two?

"Split himself in two" is not the way I'd put it, especially because that wouldn't be the necessary conclusion. God is complex, timeless, and omnipresent. The idea of this God having facets, components, or something like that (not that any of those is quite accurate to say) is far from unthinkable. In fact, it's almost clearcut that he does, if we go by all the attributes of God that are referred to in Scripture.

 

[Dimitryet]

The Son, The Word (Jesus) Is YAHWEH, He receive from Mary and humanity the human nature (like He received Abel's sacrifice before) without sin. And give to humans the plentiful participation and communion with (or in) His Divine Nature for Plentiful Salvation. It Is Gospel.

Also Trinity Is YAHWEH (WHO IS) and God. And Any Person of Trinity Is YAHWEH and God. But we say not "3 YAHWEHs" (And we believe in One God Trinity and not in "3 Gods"). Because Son Is Word of Father by Spirit (Spirit like Respiration of Father). And They (3 Persons) Are so near to each other like Each for Himself (for "Each self").

YAHWEH (WHO IS) Is First Love and Friendship by nature and essence, and 3 personalities (like the family).

+++++++

But the Scripture speak about Jesus sometime in vue of his human nature, sometime in vue of his Divin nature. About Divin nature is the begining of Gospel of John, and in John 8.25 He answer directly to Jews in jewish what He Is YAHWE (Who Is). And more

 

[Radrook]

Why was the idea of a triune God alien to God's chosen people Israel?

 

[JackRT]

Reading Revelations now, I just came across this:

3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God the Father in heaven. If we live pleasing to Him, we shall be seated on thrones with Jesus.

To me this solidifies that Jesus is the son of God and not God himself.

Messiah means literally "anointed one" and was the common way in which the Jews referred to kings of the dynasty of David. "Anointed" refers of course to the method of coronation of the Jewish kings. It translated into the Greek as "Christos". The Jews regarded themselves as a "theocracy"... a kingdom ruled by God. The Jews also envisaged a (metaphorical) throne room in which there were three thrones. God occupied the central throne. At "the right hand of God" was the throne of the "king messiah" who was the reigning king of the house and family of David. At "the left hand of God" was the throne of the "priest messiah" who was the high priest of the house and family of Zadok. Ideally there were always two messiahs who were known collectively as the "sons of God". All these terms, "messiah", "kingdom of God", "at the right hand of God" and "son of God" were political rather than religious statements. It was a later generation of gentile Christians who re-interpreted these phrases in a very different religious sense. Both before and after the death of Jesus the early Christians, who were, after all, practicing Jews, understood these terms in their traditional sense. Jesus in claiming to be the messiah had not committed any blasphemy... there was no religious crime that the high priest could legitimately charge him with. That is why they went to the Romans to do the job.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Admin Hat...

Theology is a Christian Only area; as such, posts against or denying the Trinity as well as the dual nature of Christ; human and Divine at the same time are against the rules here. Therefore, the thread is being cleaned up a bit also.

Mark
CF Admin

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

So if God came down to earth in the form of a human [Jesus], then this means no one was manning the universe or God was absent watching over the world during all those years that Jesus lived? Or was God able to split himself in two?

I think "split in two" would be the best analogy in this case.
not exact, but the best analogy .

While the mystery of the Trinity is beyond our human understanding, this gives us a sense of the doctrine of the trinity:

Likewise, this excerpt from the Athanasian Creed may help also:

That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence.
For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Essence of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Essence of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood by God. One altogether; not by confusion of Essence; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of the God the Father Almighty,​

 

[Radrook]

I can't imagine anyone who is finally given the privilege of meeting and speaking with God face to face in heaven rejecting him simply because he turns out to be either a triune God or a Unitarian type God.

 

[farout]

I have now started on the book of Revelations and not understanding this, if God was Jesus himself then why is Jesus referred to as the "son of God"?

John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and
dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten
of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

This gives no doubt that it was Jesus
who made everything including the earth, heavens, sun, moon, oceans and He
created man as seen in the first 3 scriptures of the Gospel of John. But verse
14 tells us that the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us as the true Son of
God.

The four gospels show Jesus as a Lion,
Calf, Man, and Eagle. The Eagle is symbolic of God. This is the message that
John brought in his gospel, that Jesus was in fact God who took on the form of
flesh and dwelt among us. less

Read Colossians chapter 1 and that should nicely answer you question.

 

[Wgw]

Jesus Christ is Very God of Very God, of One Essence with the Father, Begotten of the Father before all worlds.

God incarnate.

St. Mary is thus "Theotokos," Birth giver to God; she bore God in the womb, however, she did not give birth to God in the sense of herself being a Goddess who was the source of God; God is uncreated and God the Father is unoriginate; St. Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ according to His assumed Humanity, and not to His uncreated Divine Nature.

 

[Radrook]

Neither can I imagine the creator of Heaven and Earth lashing out in wrath at a person simply because the person sincerely conceived of him as being either triune or Unitarian and devoted his life to serving him while thinking of him in that way.

I imagine him kindly revealing himself as he is and appreciating the effort that the person put forth.

Psalm 86:15 (KJV) But thou, O Lord, art a God full of compassion, and gracious, long suffering, and plenteous in mercy and truth.

 

[Allan Cooper]

I have now started on the book of Revelations and not understanding this, if God was Jesus himself then why is Jesus referred to as the "son of God"?

John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and
dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten
of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

This gives no doubt that it was Jesus
who made everything including the earth, heavens, sun, moon, oceans and He
created man as seen in the first 3 scriptures of the Gospel of John. But verse
14 tells us that the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us as the true Son of
God.

The four gospels show Jesus as a Lion,
Calf, Man, and Eagle. The Eagle is symbolic of God. This is the message that
John brought in his gospel, that Jesus was in fact God who took on the form of
flesh and dwelt among us. less

It may seem like a paradox, but it really is not. The word God in Greek (θεος) has different senses. When it is used as a title or proper name, and especially when it has the definite article (but not always) it is an identification of the Father.

In John 1:1 which to which you refer, when the Word is θεος, it refers to something quite different and does not identify the Word (who would become Jesus) as the Father. It predicates (or gives the qualities of) divinity to the Word.

Thus one can say that Jesus is θεος but that he is also the Son of θεος. Without this distinction, to identify Jesus as the God he was with would not be consistent with Trinitarian theology.

 

[NonTheologian]

if God was Jesus himself then why is Jesus referred to as the "son of God"?

So if God came down to earth in the form of a human [Jesus], then this means no one was manning the universe or God was absent watching over the world during all those years that Jesus lived? Or was God able to split himself in two?

I think "split in two" would be the best analogy in this case.
not exact, but the best analogy .

According to Orthodox Christian theology, God exists as a Trinity - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. All three are uncreated - they have existed forever. How the Son can be the Son and yet be "unbegotten" is a mystery beyond our comprehension. It is not correct - at least according to Orthodox theology - to suggest that the Son arose through some sort of mitosis.

 

[Wgw]

According to Orthodox Christian theology, God exists as a Trinity - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. All three are uncreated - they have existed forever. How the Son can be the Son and yet be "unbegotten" is a mystery beyond our comprehension. It is not correct - at least according to Orthodox theology - to suggest that the Son arose through some sort of mitosis.

Just to clarify, Orthodox theology believes the Son is begotten, not made; that is to say, begotten of the Father before all worlds, but uncreated. The Father alone is both uncreated and unoriginate; the Holy Spirit proceeds from Him, and the Son is Begotten of Him.

See: the Nicene Creed, Orthodox Dogmatic Theology by Protopresbyter Michael Pmozansky, De Incarnatione by St. Athanasius the Great, the Orthodox Way by ++Kallistos of Diokleia.