Is it wrong...

imperfectchristian · Jun 8, 2009

Disclaimer: I want everyone here to know before they begin reading this thread that the purpose for me posting this thread is for thoughtful discussion and that I am not trying to argue or be disrepsectful to anyone by asking these questions.

7 Questions Concerning sex and sexuality:

1. Is it wrong for me to have a sexual desire for a woman besides my wife and if it is not wrong how many am I allowed to have before it becomes wrong?

2. (removed for controversial reasons)

3. Is it wrong if my wife is in the Army and I am not able to be sexually satisfied while she is deployed to touch to keep from having sex with someone else? (she could be gone for up to 2 years at a time)

4. Is it wrong for me to put myself in a position where I am tempted to think about sex with other women? (This could include, but not be limited to: watching TV or movies that have sexy women on them)

5. The marriage bed is undefiled in all ways...Does that mean that sexual fantasies acted out in the marriage bed are OK, what about fantasies about other people...is the rule...as long as both parties are OK with it then its OK?

6. If my wife will only have sex with me once a month and consequentially my sexual desires (that I cannot contain) are not satisified is it wrong for me to touch or would it be better to have a lover (that my wife approves of) or would it be better to get a divorce?

7. Which one is worse, masturbation or sex outside of marriage?

These are just a few questions concerning sexuality. I would like to hear your thoughts on each one of these and how you would counsel each situation. Please explain the reasoning behind your answers.

Thanks

the.Sheepdog · Jun 8, 2009

twiggy, to be honest I see this thread moving south pretty quickly. it is so close to the Controversial Topics rule in violation that I fail to see how it wont cross over. I wont close this myself but I bet the first Admin that saunters by will pop a gasket.

imperfectchristian · Jun 8, 2009

OK I am going to answer my own post to get this started.

The standard in which I will use to judge is the following:

Matthew 22:34-40

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

t1wGl said:
7 Questions Concerning sex and sexuality:

1. Is it wrong for me to have a sexual desire for a woman besides my wife and if it is not wrong how many am I allowed to have before it becomes wrong?

2. Is it wrong for me to have a sexual desire for a man? (same sex attraction)

3. Is it wrong if my wife is in the Army and I am not able to be sexually satisfied while she is deployed to touch to keep from having sex with someone else? (she could be gone for up to 2 years at a time)

4. Is it wrong for me to put myself in a position where I am tempted to think about sex with other women? (This could include, but not be limited to: watching TV or movies that have sexy women on them)

5. The marriage bed is undefiled in all ways...Does that mean that sexual fantasies acted out in the marriage bed are OK, what about fantasies about other people...is the rule...as long as both parties are OK with it then its OK?

6. If my wife will only have sex with me once a month and consequentially my sexual desires (that I cannot contain) are not satisified is it wrong for me to touch or would it be better to have a lover (that my wife approves of) or would it be better to get a divorce?

7. Which one is worse, masturbation or sex outside of marriage?

1. 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

2. 'Love your neighbor as yourself.

The answer to each one of these questions is found by asking this question:

Is it a failure on my part to fulfill no. 1 or no. 2?

If so then the answer to the question of "are these wrong / sinful" is unequivocably yes!

Remember Jesus' prayer that He gave us as an example...

"...forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"

For those who believe that they do not have any trespasses that need forgiving on a daily basis, they are sadly mistaken. Even if the struggle or weakness is not sexuality, because none of us are perfect (AKA Jesus Christ)

What am I saying?

I am saying the more you can learn to love God and love your neighbor, the better you will become at keeping the commandments and the only way to genuinely grow in love for God is to grow in the knowledge of His love for you.

Where ever you are at, above all things it is essential to continually recieve God's love and mercy into your life and allow it to flow from your life into the lives of those around you.

God is not keeping score of your wrongs so you should not keep score of your wrongs or the wrongs of others who have trespassed against you.

The only way to do this with any hope of genuine success in any measure is total dependence, trust and reliance upon the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit...their power working in us and through us.

So then its true...without faith, it is impossible to please God.

nephilimiyr · Jun 8, 2009

t1wGl said:
Disclaimer: I want everyone here to know before they begin reading this thread that the purpose for me posting this thread is for thoughtful discussion and that I am not trying to argue or be disrepsectful to anyone by asking these questions.

7 Questions Concerning sex and sexuality:

1. Is it wrong for me to have a sexual desire for a woman besides my wife and if it is not wrong how many am I allowed to have before it becomes wrong?

2. Is it wrong for me to have a sexual desire for a man? (same sex attraction)

3. Is it wrong if my wife is in the Army and I am not able to be sexually satisfied while she is deployed to touch to keep from having sex with someone else? (she could be gone for up to 2 years at a time)

4. Is it wrong for me to put myself in a position where I am tempted to think about sex with other women? (This could include, but not be limited to: watching TV or movies that have sexy women on them)

5. The marriage bed is undefiled in all ways...Does that mean that sexual fantasies acted out in the marriage bed are OK, what about fantasies about other people...is the rule...as long as both parties are OK with it then its OK?

6. If my wife will only have sex with me once a month and consequentially my sexual desires (that I cannot contain) are not satisified is it wrong for me to touch or would it be better to have a lover (that my wife approves of) or would it be better to get a divorce?

7. Which one is worse, masturbation or sex outside of marriage?

These are just a few questions concerning sexuality. I would like to hear your thoughts on each one of these and how you would counsel each situation. Please explain the reasoning behind your answers.

Thanks

LOL, WOW! you don't ask for much do you?
You do realize that you're basically asking people to write a whole chapter of a book here? No one could possible answer all of that and do as you request in one post. So before I even take the time it will require, please explain what you mean by "wrong"

imperfectchristian · Jun 8, 2009

the.Sheepdog said:
twiggy, to be honest I see this thread moving south pretty quickly. it is so close to the Controversial Topics rule in violation that I fail to see how it wont cross over. I wont close this myself but I bet the first Admin that saunters by will pop a gasket.

Thanks for the heads up sheepdog...I thought this could potentially be a very encouraging thread.

imperfectchristian · Jun 8, 2009

nephilimiyr said:
please explain what you mean by "wrong"

Please see no. 1 and 2 in post #3 for the answer to this question.

the.Sheepdog · Jun 8, 2009

I hope so brother. Here's hoping.

imperfectchristian · Jun 8, 2009

I am going to delete no. 2 of the 7 questions for its controversial potential...please do the same in your replies...thanks so much.

oneshot012 · Jun 8, 2009

t1wGl said:
Disclaimer: I want everyone here to know before they begin reading this thread that the purpose for me posting this thread is for thoughtful discussion and that I am not trying to argue or be disrepsectful to anyone by asking these questions.

7 Questions Concerning sex and sexuality:

1. Is it wrong for me to have a sexual desire for a woman besides my wife and if it is not wrong how many am I allowed to have before it becomes wrong?

3. Is it wrong if my wife is in the Army and I am not able to be sexually satisfied while she is deployed to touch to keep from having sex with someone else? (she could be gone for up to 2 years at a time)

4. Is it wrong for me to put myself in a position where I am tempted to think about sex with other women? (This could include, but not be limited to: watching TV or movies that have sexy women on them)

5. The marriage bed is undefiled in all ways...Does that mean that sexual fantasies acted out in the marriage bed are OK, what about fantasies about other people...is the rule...as long as both parties are OK with it then its OK?

6. If my wife will only have sex with me once a month and consequentially my sexual desires (that I cannot contain) are not satisified is it wrong for me to touch or would it be better to have a lover (that my wife approves of) or would it be better to get a divorce?

7. Which one is worse, masturbation or sex outside of marriage?

These are just a few questions concerning sexuality. I would like to hear your thoughts on each one of these and how you would counsel each situation. Please explain the reasoning behind your answers.

Thanks

Well, I think we should be open and honest about sexuality seeing how that is a big issue for Christians, this is we have websites like "xxxchurch.com"

Anyhow, my non-married post-modern perspective:

1. Wow, lust a huge issue. My question back, is it wrong to lust or is it wrong to act on the lust? The thought life is pretty powerful, I think look once no big deal, look twice you are flittering with sin, look three times and you are sinning (that is a metaphor).

3. WOW! ummm, I talked with a married friend about this. Now his wife doesn't go away for two years but his wife goes away for weekend business trips and to her families house for a few weeks at a time and he pleasures himself with images of her. However, she is aware of it and okay with it. That one I think is between you and God. Honestly, the sin of touching yourself is an Augustinian infl on the church. I would love to hear what an Orthodox christian would have to say on the topic (they haven't been as highly infl by Augustine as we have).

4. Shouldn't we feel temptation. I mean I think this plays out to the weaker brother in Romans 14 however.

5. Not sure of the question

6. No. Marriage = Covenant, Sex = Ratifying Oath Sign of the Covenant. Therefore, no sex outside of the covenant. That needs some prayer then. Unless we want to be Platonists and think God doesn't care about our bodies. However, if God does care about my body then I think he would care about if I am receiving pleasure in my sex life which "he created". Counseling would be in order.

7. Sex outside of marriage. Easy, because that is breaking the covenant. I mean think about what Paul says when you have sex with a prostitute you join yourself to her. Nothing like that is said of touching yourself. Again the sin of touching yourself is really an Augustinian infl on the church.

imperfectchristian · Jun 8, 2009

oneshot012 said:
Well, I think we should be open and honest about sexuality seeing how that is a big issue for Christians, this is we have websites like "xxxchurch.com"

Anyhow, my non-married post-modern perspective:

1. Wow, lust a huge issue. My question back, is it wrong to lust or is it wrong to act on the lust? The thought life is pretty powerful, I think look once no big deal, look twice you are flittering with sin, look three times and you are sinning (that is a metaphor).

2. Ummm, hmmmm, homosexuality is wrong but...hmmmm...feels like a lust question so see number 1. Yet I think the difference here is that homosexual feelings are not Biblical (Rom 1).

3. WOW! ummm, I talked with a married friend about this. Now his wife doesn't go away for two years but his wife goes away for weekend business trips and to her families house for a few weeks at a time and he pleasures himself with images of her. However, she is aware of it and okay with it. That one I think is between you and God. Honestly, the sin of touching yourself is an Augustinian infl on the church. I would love to hear what an Orthodox christian would have to say on the topic (they haven't been as highly infl by Augustine as we have).

4. Shouldn't we feel temptation. I mean I think this plays out to the weaker brother in Romans 14 however.

5. Not sure of the question

6. No. Marriage = Covenant, Sex = Ratifying Oath Sign of the Covenant. Therefore, no sex outside of the covenant. That needs some prayer then. Unless we want to be Platonists and think God doesn't care about our bodies. However, if God does care about my body then I think he would care about if I am receiving pleasure in my sex life which "he created". Counseling would be in order.

7. Sex outside of marriage. Easy, because that is breaking the covenant. I mean think about what Paul says when you have sex with a prostitute you join yourself to her. Nothing like that is said of touching yourself. Again the sin of touching yourself is really an Augustinian infl on the church.

Thanks for your thoughful response...if you don't mind...go ahead and delete the answer to question no. 2 because I don't want this thread to be closed for bringing up controversial topics. Thanks

imperfectchristian · Jun 8, 2009

oneshot012 said:
Well, I think we should be open and honest about sexuality seeing how that is a big issue for Christians, this is we have websites like "xxxchurch.com"

Anyhow, my non-married post-modern perspective:

1. Wow, lust a huge issue. My question back, is it wrong to lust or is it wrong to act on the lust? The thought life is pretty powerful, I think look once no big deal, look twice you are flittering with sin, look three times and you are sinning (that is a metaphor).

.......

3. WOW! ummm, I talked with a married friend about this. Now his wife doesn't go away for two years but his wife goes away for weekend business trips and to her families house for a few weeks at a time and he pleasures himself with images of her. However, she is aware of it and okay with it. That one I think is between you and God. Honestly, the sin of touching yourself is an Augustinian infl on the church. I would love to hear what an Orthodox christian would have to say on the topic (they haven't been as highly infl by Augustine as we have).

4. Shouldn't we feel temptation. I mean I think this plays out to the weaker brother in Romans 14 however.

5. Not sure of the question

6. No. Marriage = Covenant, Sex = Ratifying Oath Sign of the Covenant. Therefore, no sex outside of the covenant. That needs some prayer then. Unless we want to be Platonists and think God doesn't care about our bodies. However, if God does care about my body then I think he would care about if I am receiving pleasure in my sex life which "he created". Counseling would be in order.

7. Sex outside of marriage. Easy, because that is breaking the covenant. I mean think about what Paul says when you have sex with a prostitute you join yourself to her. Nothing like that is said of touching yourself. Again the sin of touching yourself is really an Augustinian infl on the church.

But hypothetically...if you were counseling individuals with these issues, would these be your responses?

You have already brought up several things that could make good threads in their own right.

Floatingaxe · Jun 8, 2009

the.Sheepdog · Jun 8, 2009

Floatingaxe said:

insightful as always! and you understand my concerns too I bet!

Floatingaxe · Jun 8, 2009

the.Sheepdog said:
insightful as always! and you understand my concerns too I bet!

Absolutely!

nephilimiyr · Jun 8, 2009

t1wGl said:
1. Is it wrong for me to have a sexual desire for a woman besides my wife and if it is not wrong how many am I allowed to have before it becomes wrong?

No it's not wrong to have that sexual desire, it's a God given desire, it's totally natural to have that desire in you. What would make it wrong (using your definition of wrong) is if you do what James says in James 1:14-15.
James 1:14-15, but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

Notice, James says the evil desire is in us but doesn't call it sin? You also notice that only after you have been dragged away and enticed is when that evil desire births sin?

It doesn't matter how many times you look Twiggy, what matters is whether the conception of temptation and your evil desire has entered your heart.

3. Is it wrong if my wife is in the Army and I am not able to be sexually satisfied while she is deployed to touch to keep from having sex with someone else? (she could be gone for up to 2 years at a time)

I say it's better to releave yourself while your spouse is gone, or even to the single person, then to burn in your lust and fall into sin, and perhaps become addicted to porn or something much worse.

4. Is it wrong for me to put myself in a position where I am tempted to think about sex with other women? (This could include, but not be limited to: watching TV or movies that have sexy women on them)

I would say it certainly isn't wise to do so. You would be basically inviting temptation in.

5. The marriage bed is undefiled in all ways...Does that mean that sexual fantasies acted out in the marriage bed are OK, what about fantasies about other people...is the rule...as long as both parties are OK with it then its OK?

Sorry but I stay out of other people's bedrooms, it's their own business.

6. If my wife will only have sex with me once a month and consequentially my sexual desires (that I cannot contain) are not satisified is it wrong for me to touch or would it be better to have a lover (that my wife approves of) or would it be better to get a divorce?

See my answer to #3.

7. Which one is worse, masturbation or sex outside of marriage?

Trick question, I don't believe God categorizes sin and considers one sin worse than the other, neither do I. And I don't believe masturbation in all cases is a sin.

Floatingaxe · Jun 8, 2009

It is fine for a man to appreciate the beauty of a woman who is not his wife, but to have a sexual desire is another matter. It is NOT OK.

imperfectchristian · Jun 8, 2009

Floatingaxe said:
It is fine for a man to appreciate the beauty of a woman who is not his wife, but to have a sexual desire is another matter. It is NOT OK.

How would you counsel someone in this area as well as the other situations mentioned?

nephilimiyr · Jun 8, 2009

Floatingaxe said:
It is fine for a man to appreciate the beauty of a woman who is not his wife, but to have a sexual desire is another matter. It is NOT OK.

I see that even after your Oil of Oy Vey that you have been enticed to comment. Even after you "absolutely" agreed with what the.Sheepdog said.

Floatingaxe · Jun 8, 2009

t1wGl said:
How would you counsel someone in this area as well as the other situations mentioned?

I would start by leading a person into the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and discuss the topic of being pure in our minds, and that we need to continually cultivate it in order that our fruit be evident--particularly the fruit of self-control.

That's it in a nutshell.

imperfectchristian · Jun 8, 2009

Please keep this thread positive and uplifting. This is not to debate, but to discuss and encourage. I have been at some time in most of the situations listed in the OP and I know others have as well.

How would you deal with each situation compassionately and uncompromisingly at the same time?

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