Is it wrong to touch?

[kw5kw]

But thinking about it is not at all the same as doing it or intending to do it. I can fantasize about what I would do if I won the lottery, but that's not at all the same as if I were to spend half my income buying lottery tickets.

"You can't stop the birds from flying round your head, but you can stop them from building nests in your hair." --Martin Luther

What did Jesus teach? Incase you forgot here is what Jesus said about adultry, which is the sexual sin that we're talking about here.
Mat 5:27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Mat 5:28But I say unto you,That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

To me, that is just cut-and-dried, plain-talking. If you just look (or think about a woman in your mind) it is the same as you actually doing it! That means just thinking of somebody while 'doin' it' is a sin. Take a bit of time, and think about it, pray to Jesus to tell you what is right. You already know what is right, you're just trying to rationalize it out in your mind. Don't worry -- we all do that! Just ask for forgiveness and you will be forgiven.

 

[praying]

What did Jesus teach? Incase you forgot here is what Jesus said about adultry, which is the sexual sin that we're talking about here.

How did you make the gigantic leap from mastrubation to adultery, if one is not thinking abot someone beside their spouse?

 

[kw5kw]

How did you make the gigantic leap from mastrubation to adultery, if one is not thinking abot someone beside their spouse?

'cause I know what adultry is (by personal experience I'm sad to say)!

 

[Dragons87]

But thinking about it is not at all the same as doing it or intending to do it. I can fantasize about what I would do if I won the lottery, but that's not at all the same as if I were to spend half my income buying lottery tickets.

"You can't stop the birds from flying round your head, but you can stop them from building nests in your hair." --Martin Luther

Yes. But Jesus did explicitly say that thinking about sexual immorality constitutes commiting sexual immorality.

Moreover, rather than arguing about whether doing something is sinful, if we could get through life without commiting the action (which we can. Masturbation is not one of the basic necessities in life), then we'd definitely be on the good side of God for that sector of our life, no?

 

[higgs2]

Yes, it is wrong to touch and I don't need scripture to back up my view point either.

Good thing, 'cause there isn't any.

 

[praying]

'cause I know what adultry is (by personal experience I'm sad to say)!

We all know what adultery is but what does that have to do with mastrubation?

 

[invisible trousers]

they're both bad

 

[praying]

they're both bad

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[indra_fanatic]

Adultery may not be the best analogy. Probably better would be the desperate young chap in a rural area who resorts to carnally knowing a ram or a hog because there are no women available. Don't laugh; bestiality happens, and primarily for that very reason.

Both masturbation and relations with animals are surrogate forms of sex that are resorted to when a prime candidate of the opposite sex is lacking.

 

[Gentle]

hmmmmm can honestly say I've never thought about it.

God Bless
Andrew

 

[AwesomeMachine]

Masturbation can be evil if you have evil. If you haven't sinned,
masturbation is not a sin. That is because the deception of masturbation
has no effect on those who have never had real sex. Jesus did not give
into the devil because there was no evil in Him. If there is no evil
in you, you will not give in to the devil, either. So, if you are innocent,
masturbation won't hurt you. But, if you use pornography, you are no
longer innocent. Masturbation with pornography will hurt you. The beauty
you see turns out to be the bitterness of emptiness. There is no real
love there. When there is a love image, but no love, it makes an open
door for demons to make love to your soul. Then you get spiritually
full of demon spawn. After this happens, masturbation will always
hurt you.

After you lose your virginity, you are no longer innocent when it
comes to masturbation. Masturbation will always hurt you now.
That is why you shouldn't have sex until you are married, and
stay married. Masturbation is sin after you lose your virginity.
If you feel guilty, it is sin. Guilt is what tells you something
something is a sin. If a person continues to touch after they
start feeling guilty about it, it will become an ingrained sin pattern,
keeping the person enslaved to sin, and preventing them from giving and
receiving love and forgiveness. Lust always takes away you innocence.
Once you lust, masturbation is a sin. Before you have lusted, or if
you never have lusted you just have to go by if you feel guilty.

In life, if there is something you don't want anyone else to know about,
you might as well tell God, because He already knows, anyway. Talk to
God, and ask Him to help you.

 

[Gentle]

guilt?

God Bless

Andrew

 

[sally.b]

Quite young children can touch, well before they know what sex is. Presumably they think of something else, perhaps only of what is happening with their body, or perhaps not much at all. If a child can do this, an adult can as well.

You cant really compare an adults and childs mind though,
surely because an adult would have more knowledge and more hormones then it would be much harder or impossible to do this.

Another point to consider is that an adult technically would be more accountable, in the eyes of God, for their actions.

 

[invisible trousers]

Adultery may not be the best analogy. Probably better would be the desperate young chap in a rural area who resorts to carnally knowing a ram or a hog because there are no women available. Don't laugh; bestiality happens, and primarily for that very reason.

Both masturbation and relations with animals are surrogate forms of sex that are resorted to when a prime candidate of the opposite sex is lacking.

if masturbating is on the same level as having sex with animals, why is it still legal? and why would the bible be completely silent on the issue?

also, could you actually find some evidence which shows masturbation is as terrible as you've been saying it is?

Masturbation with pornography will hurt you. The beauty
you see turns out to be the bitterness of emptiness. There is no real
love there.

justify this

When there is a love image, but no love, it makes an open
door for demons to make love to your soul. Then you get spiritually
full of demon spawn. After this happens, masturbation will always
hurt you.

justify this

After you lose your virginity, you are no longer innocent when it
comes to masturbation. Masturbation will always hurt you now.

justify this

Masturbation is sin after you lose your virginity.

show biblical evidence or retract, please

If you feel guilty, it is sin. Guilt is what tells you something
something is a sin.

guilt is a sin? uh, justify?

 

[indra_fanatic]

if masturbating is on the same level as having sex with animals, why is it still legal? and why would the bible be completely silent on the issue?

also, could you actually find some evidence which shows masturbation is as terrible as you've been saying it is?

If you would have actually read my post, you would have seen that I didn't directly condemn masturbation, or even bestiality. I said that the ORIGINS are the same.

 

[invisible trousers]

right, so desiring to have an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is the same as desiring to have sex with a horse?

 

[praying]

right, so desiring to have an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] is the same as desiring to have sex with a horse?

By jove I think you've got it!



The origins are the same?

 

[invisible trousers]

the problem is the analogy is fundamentally flawed. according to it, one's (presumably a male) thought processes work like:

there are no women around, so i will touch to achieve [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].
there are no women around, so i will have sex with this horse to achieve [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

which are totally incorrect. someone doesn't have sex with a horse because there are no women around, but because they are turned on by animals sick and want to have sex with them.

it's roughly the same with masturbation, people in relationships will still touch even though they have a significant other.

plus there's that whole assumption that everyone automatically desires sexual relations with the opposite sex, which is totally false.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

What did Jesus teach? Incase you forgot here is what Jesus said about adultry, which is the sexual sin that we're talking about here.
Mat 5:27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Mat 5:28But I say unto you,That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

To me, that is just cut-and-dried, plain-talking. If you just look (or think about a woman in your mind) it is the same as you actually doing it! That means just thinking of somebody while 'doin' it' is a sin. Take a bit of time, and think about it, pray to Jesus to tell you what is right. You already know what is right, you're just trying to rationalize it out in your mind. Don't worry -- we all do that! Just ask for forgiveness and you will be forgiven.

I think your personal definition of "lust" is a too narrow.


I do not think that simply "thinking" about a person of the other gender or having "sexual" feelings IS "lust" or sin at all.


Here is what Jesus said, Matthew 5:28, "Anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

NOTICE:
"Anyone..." It doesn't say, "Any single unmarried person."
"Lustfully..." It doesn't say looks at her - that's not the point, but rather "lustfully." Ahha. The thing being condemned is lust.



Consider the excellent Book in the Old Testament, the Word of God we call "The Song of Songs" or "The Song of Solomon." Nope, sorry my beloved Catholic unseparated brothers and sisters in Christ, it's not about Christ's love for your denomination. Yes, it is about marital sexuality, but there's LOTS of "thinking" going on here, very sexual thinking - all in a Book of the Bible, inspired by God Himself, right there in the Holy Book, the Holy Bible. And yes, while it is marital sexuality, there's not a single verse in the Bible that remotely suggests that lust is okay for married people - indeed, the prohabition of "lust" is NEVER limited to single people. "ANYONE..." Jesus said.


MY view...


- Josiah


.

 

[indra_fanatic]

there are no women around, so i will touch to achieve [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].
there are no women around, so i will have sex with this horse to achieve [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

By your logic, which holds that if no one is directly harmed an action is not sinful, there isn't any difference whatsoever. In some cultures, bestiality is considered no more shameful than masturbation is in ours.

which are totally incorrect. someone doesn't have sex with a horse because there are no women around, but because they are turned on by animals sick and want to have sex with them.

Who are you to judge people with zoophilic tendencies?

it's roughly the same with masturbation, people in relationships will still touch even though they have a significant other.

I don't deny that this happens. If one of the partners is a poor (or nonexistent lover), yes, this is bound to occur. This should probably be saved for another thread.

plus there's that whole assumption that everyone automatically desires sexual relations with the opposite sex, which is totally false.

If you yourself admit that heterosexual partners are not sought out by all people with a high libido, why are you throwing stones at those who choose to act out their inclinations on livestock?