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Is it sinful to listen to hard rock and heavy metal?

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SteelDisciple

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PrincetonGuy said:
Three Points:

1. Solomon was NOT a Christian and to emulate the life of a non-Christian is a one-way ticket to the fires of hell.

2. Being a Christian is NOT about having fun; being a Christian is about dying to one’s self and letting Christ live through us in service to others.

3. Legalism is the attitude, belief, and teaching that a Christian is justified by keeping the Mosaic Law in addition to having a personal faith in Christ (see Galatians, chapters 2-5 for a detailed discussion of legalism). Believing the Bible, taking God at His word, and applying it to everyday living is NOT legalism—believing the Bible, taking God at His word, and applying it to everyday living is the responsibility of every Christian and every church.

1. What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2. May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4. Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
5. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6. knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7. for he who has died is freed from sin.
8. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9. knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13. and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14. For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16. Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17. But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18. and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
19. I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21. Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death.
22. But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
23. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I find it sad that some Christians believe that once you become Christian you can no longer have fun...and when you enjoy something for the sake of enjoying it, suddenly you are a lover of yourself.It seems some cannot see the difference. That somehow...having fun and being saved are seperate. :) I'm actually following all those teachings btw. :) Therefore all your posting seems to be moot?
 
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SteelDisciple

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bod44 said:
well, I'm not sure where I came off wrong! lol I believe its wrong and its a sin to be like the world. If we walk in the light that God gives us, Jesus' blood cleanses us. Now that we've had this conversation, perhaps you have light on this, and now, only now, it would be a sin for you. When I first got saved I had no clue that some things are wrong! God knows that and thats why he sheds light and we walk in it. See what I mean?
You just said not to be like the world. Guys like Demon Hunter are NOT like the world. Their heart is completely the OPPOSITE of the world. Their lives are not like those lives of secular bands...they aren't going around having sex...their not doing drugs or showing attitude to fellow human beings that is opposite how Christ would treat them.They are NOT of the world...but they are IN the world. Big difference. I work in an office...i'm an office worker just like the billions of other people out there...but what seperates me from the world...from others is that my heart is not dwelling on the things of the world but on Christ and salvation.
 
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Sketcher

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PrincetonGuy said:
Three Points:

1. Solomon was NOT a Christian and to emulate the life of a non-Christian is a one-way ticket to the fires of hell.
Agreed, I don't think Solomon was a good example to use because lack of restraint became his downfall.

PrincetonGuy said:

2. Being a Christian is NOT about having fun; being a Christian is about dying to one’s self and letting Christ live through us in service to others.
True, but it doesn't mean we're not allowed to enjoy ourselves either. If we take the "anti-fun" stance, we become a burden to people and can stunt their spiritual growth. We shouldn't excuse what the Bible says is sin, but we certainly can't afford to condemn other stuff and be sourpusses all the time.

PrincetonGuy said:

3. Legalism is the attitude, belief, and teaching that a Christian is justified by keeping the Mosaic Law in addition to having a personal faith in Christ (see Galatians, chapters 2-5 for a detailed discussion of legalism). Believing the Bible, taking God at His word, and applying it to everyday living is NOT legalism—believing the Bible, taking God at His word, and applying it to everyday living is the responsibility of every Christian and every church.
That is one thing legalism is, but it's not confined to that. We need to be careful not to fall in the trap the Pharisees did:

"Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you." - Deuteronomy 4:2

"So be careful to do what the LORD your God has commanded you; do not turn aside to the right or to the left." - Deuteronomy 5:32

Legalism is taking human ideas and traditions and making them as authoritative as the Word of God. Overanalysis and over theologizing led the Pharisees into this trap. We should follow it and apply it, but we have no right to add to it - that is liberalism in the other direction.

When you look at what the Bible says about music, it gives no possibility for any kind of music being inherently evil. The main contention here though, is that we are to be different from the world. But Scripture says we are to be different from the world in terms of behavior, not style (barring modesty requirements for women). New Christians didn't have to get different kinds of tunics or anything like that. They were different enough avoiding debauchery, orgies, idolatry, etc (1 Peter 4:2-4). Regardless of the music you listen to, if you can be different from the world in big ways like this, being an example in speech and in how you treat others, that's going to be one heck of an example. People are going to see that you are a genuine Christian and you don't have to be affeminate - because quite frankly, the music and style that most Christians see as "acceptable" is viewed by me and metalheads as "gay."
 
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SteelDisciple

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Let's take a look at the band Anberlin. They are not metal...however they are rock. Most of their songs are about relationships and love. Some christians would look at that and say "That's not christian!!!"

By saying that...you're also saying that the Songs of Solomon...a book within God's holy word is not Christian.

Enjoying life isn't a sin. Having a hobby or interest is NOT a sin. It also doesn't mean you are OF the world...it just means you are in it...but your heart is with God. That's something some people will NEVER understand.
 
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bod44

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k, well I feel like once again I'm being misunderstood! lol I believe in having fun. Wholesome fun. I "jam" with my buddies sometimes, I go snowmobiling, I play football, and yes the difference is that everything I do, I do unto the glory of God. But, you're missing my point again. I didn't say that Demon Hunter's heart was in the wrong place. I said that their music gives the same appearance that any other metal band gives and until you hear the lyrics you won't know its christian, therefore I think that that is along the lines of the appearance of evil or conforming to the world. You see what I mean? Like I said, I think its good to reach out and not just sit in your church, and I think its possible to reach people with christian metal, but I don't think thats God's ideal. Just because you're not doing drugs or not having sex doesn't mean you're holy! THere are alot of people that don't have sex, drink, or do drugs, that are on their way to hell. I agree with mr princeton, fun should not be our goal. I have fun, but I spend probably 95% percent of my time doing things that really couldn't be described as fun. When I have spare time, I would rather read the word or pray than go head bang or even calmer things. I heard a preacher say once, if anything is more precious than your quiet time with God, than you are backslidden. I believe that to be the truth. So, I'm not condemning anyone necessarily, but I believe metal is metal, whatever the lyrics. And the spirit of metal is not a spirit of peace. It does not edify the saints. Therefore I wouldn't listen to it. But, Some of you don't apparently think thats true, and thats fine, but rather than openly arguing and justifying right away, do what I ended up doing when I used to justify worldliness, I finally looked at it with an open mind and I starting going through the word and holding it up against the scriptures and thats what changed my mind. So, anyways, I thought this thread was done! lol Lets reckon ourselves to be dead unto this world! Lets pursue better things! Walk in the light that you have, and don't stray! Pray pray pray that God will continue to give light, if we aren't getting closer to God each day, than we really aren't doing well. We never have reached a final goal until we are in heaven so lets forget those things behind us and reach forward to apprehend that which is before us!
Phi 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
 
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SteelDisciple

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bod44 said:
k, well I feel like once again I'm being misunderstood! lol I believe in having fun. Wholesome fun. I "jam" with my buddies sometimes, I go snowmobiling, I play football, and yes the difference is that everything I do, I do unto the glory of God. But, you're missing my point again. I didn't say that Demon Hunter's heart was in the wrong place. I said that their music gives the same appearance that any other metal band gives and until you hear the lyrics you won't know its christian, therefore I think that that is along the lines of the appearance of evil or conforming to the world. You see what I mean? Like I said, I think its good to reach out and not just sit in your church, and I think its possible to reach people with christian metal, but I don't think thats God's ideal. Just because you're not doing drugs or not having sex doesn't mean you're holy! THere are alot of people that don't have sex, drink, or do drugs, that are on their way to hell. I agree with mr princeton, fun should not be our goal. I have fun, but I spend probably 95% percent of my time doing things that really couldn't be described as fun. When I have spare time, I would rather read the word or pray than go head bang or even calmer things. I heard a preacher say once, if anything is more precious than your quiet time with God, than you are backslidden. I believe that to be the truth. So, I'm not condemning anyone necessarily, but I believe metal is metal, whatever the lyrics. And the spirit of metal is not a spirit of peace. It does not edify the saints. Therefore I wouldn't listen to it. But, Some of you don't apparently think thats true, and thats fine, but rather than openly arguing and justifying right away, do what I ended up doing when I used to justify worldliness, I finally looked at it with an open mind and I starting going through the word and holding it up against the scriptures and thats what changed my mind. So, anyways, I thought this thread was done! lol Lets reckon ourselves to be dead unto this world! Lets pursue better things! Walk in the light that you have, and don't stray! Pray pray pray that God will continue to give light, if we aren't getting closer to God each day, than we really aren't doing well. We never have reached a final goal until we are in heaven so lets forget those things behind us and reach forward to apprehend that which is before us!
Phi 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.


Here's the thing...:) When you snowboard...even if in your heart it it's for glory of God...you LOOK like just any other non-Christian. When I go to the office...in my heart it's for the glory of God...but on the outside it is the appearance of the world...When you play football...in your heart it's for the glory of God...but on the outside it's the appearance of the world.

Kind of see where i'm coming from now? :) I mean, I suppose I could walk around my office and everytime I enter an invoice I could yell out "Glory be to the Lord!!" But that wouldn't be helping anything. (though it would be fun to do.heheh) What seperates YOU from the other football players or snowboarders is that you are saved...and that your reason for snowboarding isn't JUST for enjoyment...but for Christ in your heart.

I believe it's the same with music...they are doing a job, it also happens to be something they really enjoy doing. Just like other people...the difference is they are proclaiming themselves Christians by their actions, the choices they make and the lyrics they write.

I guess that's the best way I can word how I feel on the subject...some may not agree...but...that's what I truely believe.


Just wanted to add something very very ironic...bands like Demon Hunter...from the people i've talked to...they are viewed as Christians who ROCK hard.
But there are some who believe they are not even Christian at all for rocking hard. The irony is that non-christians see their faith more than those who share their faith. :) I don't know...just found that so ironic I wanted to share. (not saying anyone here thinks they are not christians...but I HAVE talk to people like that)
 
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ShawneeA

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SteelDisciple said:
Here's the thing...:) When you snowboard...even if in your heart it it's for glory of God...you LOOK like just any other non-Christian. When I go to the office...in my heart it's for the glory of God...but on the outside it is the appearance of the world...When you play football...in your heart it's for the glory of God...but on the outside it's the appearance of the world.

Kind of see where i'm coming from now? :) I mean, I suppose I could walk around my office and everytime I enter an invoice I could yell out "Glory be to the Lord!!" But that wouldn't be helping anything. (though it would be fun to do.heheh) What seperates YOU from the other football players or snowboarders is that you are saved...and that your reason for snowboarding isn't JUST for enjoyment...but for Christ in your heart.

I believe it's the same with music...they are doing a job, it also happens to be something they really enjoy doing. Just like other people...the difference is they are proclaiming themselves Christians by their actions, the choices they make and the lyrics they write.

I guess that's the best way I can word how I feel on the subject...some may not agree...but...that's what I truely believe.


Just wanted to add something very very ironic...bands like Demon Hunter...from the people i've talked to...they are viewed as Christians who ROCK hard.
But there are some who believe they are not even Christian at all for rocking hard. The irony is that non-christians see their faith more than those who share their faith. :) I don't know...just found that so ironic I wanted to share. (not saying anyone here thinks they are not christians...but I HAVE talk to people like that)
Thanks Steel.. a big thumbs up to your explanation..
soooooooooo many times, I have often NOT done something because I was worried the world would see me as doing something non-Christian. The more I grow as a Christian and the older I get, I am accepting that I CAN do some things I really like to do, because I am doing it with Christ in my heart.

Thanks man
 
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whateveristrue

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ShawneeA said:
Thanks Steel.. a big thumbs up to your explanation..
soooooooooo many times, I have often NOT done something because I was worried the world would see me as doing something non-Christian. The more I grow as a Christian and the older I get, I am accepting that I CAN do some things I really like to do, because I am doing it with Christ in my heart.

Thanks man

I'd still becareful though. You CAN do those things as long as you're not sinning.

Well, I'm gonna go rob a bank... but I'm doing it with Christ in my heart, so it's OK.
I don't think that works. :)
 
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ronmathison

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Iron Maiden is going to tour

because of their new album

(in the U.S. and some of Canada, starting in a few months)


I want to go and see them.


(I've seen them twice, already, in the 80's)


I love Jesus, and if certain lyrics of a song

are bad, my beliefs WON'T be affected.


Also, they just sound GREAT!!


Would YOU turn down

seeing: THE BEATLES (if you could),

just because they

never sang Amazing Grace?
 
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whateveristrue

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ronmathison said:
I love Jesus, and if certain lyrics of a song

are bad, my beliefs WON'T be affected.


Also, they just sound GREAT!!


Would YOU turn down

seeing: THE BEATLES (if you could),

just because they

never sang Amazing Grace?

No, a band doesn't have to sing Amazing Grace in order for me to like them. I enjoy great music too!

However, IF a band attributes their songs and lyrics to satan.... yes, I would turn them down. Even if they sound good.
 
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christandisrael

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whateveristrue said:
No, a band doesn't have to sing Amazing Grace in order for me to like them. I enjoy great music too!

However, IF a band attributes their songs and lyrics to satan.... yes, I would turn them down. Even if they sound good.
It's the motive of their hearts.
 
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bod44

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I wouldn't listen to the beatles singing Amazing Grace!! They aren't singing it in worship to God! Did their lives shine anything even remotely close to a holy, God fearing life? Nope! You could sing a wonderfully good song with great lyrics and still be an abomination to God! God hates a fake! And I agree with steel that yes its the motive of the heart, but again I think that trying to use football or snowboarding as an example doesn't work because thats much different. but anyways, we're starting to go in circles! lol I still love you as a brother in Christ and I'm not gonna freak out! lol God bless you and I know that if you are truly walking honestly before God, then you're not in sin in anyway!
Grace and peace to all! Rock on!? lol hmmmm... dunno if that works for me... lol
 
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ronmathison

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whateveristrue said:
IF a band attributes their songs and lyrics to satan....

I've NEVER heard of ANY band, that

flat-out-says:

"We attribute our songs and lyrics to Satan."

(although Slayer, Venom, and Deicide (yuck), seem pretty Satanic, to me. )

From Iron Maiden's 'Rhyme of The Ancient Mariner' : "...That we should love all things that God made..."

From the beginning of the song 'Revelations' on the album 'piece of mind' :

"O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
But take away our pride."
(G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal)
 
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Sketcher

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ronmathison said:
I've NEVER heard of ANY band, that

flat-out-says:

"We attribute our songs and lyrics to Satan."

...although Slayer, Venom, and Deicide (yuck), seem pretty Satanic, to me.
Led Zeppelin attributed "Stairway to Heaven" to a spirit.
 
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ronmathison

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twistedsketch said:
Led Zeppelin attributed "Stairway to Heaven" to a spirit.

I've NEVER heard that.

And I'm a big Led-Zeppelin fan.

Prove it: WHICH member of Led Zeppelin said that?


Robert Plant wrote the words to Stairway to Heaven (which were later altered) while simply listening to Jimmy Page play the guitar.


(I love Led Zeppelin, and I've even seen Robert Plant in concert, twice, once with Jimmy-Page, and they played 'tons' of Led Zep. In my opinion, they invented Heavy-Metal, although it became 'heavier' with bands like Iron Maiden, and even heavier still, with bands like Metallica.)



How about this from Led Zep (Album: 'Presence' ; Song: 'In My Time Of Dying'):

"Meet me Jesus, meet me Lord, meet me in the middle of the air, Lord."
 
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