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is it science or is it faith...

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dana3262

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Faith.

Science has absolutely nothing in common with religion,it cant prove God exists because scientifically God doesn't exist.

God exists through faith and being a Christian you know he exists but cannot prove it with science one way or another.

The term Creation Science is a contradiction,nothing more.

If people want to believe in God they should do so and with time they'll see he is real,but if they try and prove he is real with Science they will only look foolish as it cannot be done.

I have a common sense view on this because i was an agnostic for most of my life and have a perfect understanding of both views.

:wave:
 
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archaeologist

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The term Creation Science is a contradiction,nothing more.

So why creation science?

this was not opening the door to take jabs at creation scientists as theistic evolutionists live in glass houses.
(in fact worse)

Science has absolutely nothing in common with religion

actually it does...it was a creation of God and is subject to Him.

God exists through faith

so you are saying God only exists if people believe in Him and if they don't He doesn't?

I have a common sense view on this because i was an agnostic for most of my life and have a perfect understanding of both views.

yeah right. jesus said' a person giving their own testimony, that testimony is not true' it would have been better if you had shown some of that understanding instead of declaring it.
 
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dana3262

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Of course God doesn't exist to an Atheist,he doesn't exist as much as he does exist to us.

However,He exists.period.
But for those who don't believe in God he doesn't exist,its a no brainer.

We all create our own reality be it true or false and if an atheist says he doesn't exist then he doesn't exist,this is not true to me tho as he does exist in my view.........and who am i to tell people what to believe anyway.

By the way,I'm not saying anything negative towards those who believe in a literal biblical creation,I'm saying the term "Creation Science" is a contradiction because if we are to believe in a biblical creation literally, there is absolutely nothing in that that science can confirm,in fact science will say plenty to refute a literal biblical creation.If people want to believe its a literal creation thats fine but don't try and back it up with pseudo science passed off as science!

As for my opinion on our creation,i don't know which process is correct and i don't pretend to either.
 
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shernren

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this was not opening the door to take jabs at creation scientists as theistic evolutionists live in glass houses.
(in fact worse)

TEism has never been about proving God through science. YECism has never, directly or indirectly, been about anything but that.

In any case. Why do you believe that the earth goes around the sun? The science? Or blind faith in your elementary school teacher?
 
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archaeologist

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In any case. Why do you believe that the earth goes around the sun? The science? Or blind faith in your elementary school teacher

let's leave the cheap shots in the locker room.

We all create our own reality be it true or false and if an atheist says he doesn't exist then he doesn't exist,this is not true to me tho as he does exist in my view

no, we do not create our own reality because denial is not changing the facts that the reality exists, it is just lying to oneself.

in fact science will say plenty to refute a literal biblical creation

this is the crux of the whole issue. since secular science tries to do things through the natural way, omit & ignore God, comes up with alternatives to the Bible, why would any christian accept their findings? when did science receive the authority to overrule God's word?

in all my conversations not one person, who has challenged me, has constructively criticised or analyzed one scientific conclusion or theory.

they have all defended secular science without thought and have acknowledged accepting their 'discoveries' because they have been tested over and over.

not one has said, 'hey wait a minute, this is secular science which doesn't believe in God, maybe we should take another look at the evidence with God in the picture.'

because secular science confirmed a few things that God did, over-turning some views held by a minority but prominent group of people, a majority of people have jumped on the secularscience bandwagon and basically giving it a blank check to do and say what it wants while ignoring that God's word is above science and is the only infallible document we possess.

just because science found some of the things that God did does it mean that it finds them all or is correct when it comes to alternatives to the Gen. account.

as stated in the above post, too many people jump on the literal phrasing of the Bible to justify their participation in secular science without discernment and it gets them into positins they cannot get out of.

this is what i mean by saying the most unliteral people are the most literal for when it is in their favor, criticizing others or pointing out supposed fallacies, the stickto the most strigent of literal meanings of the word or words.

in contrast, when they want to justify or excuse their 'theology' then they revert back to being unliteral and find any wing nut alternative to support their purposes.

i have seen this through all the dissenting posts that have been written in response to what i have put on the board.

everyone has gone to science over God's word, for me i do not believe that creation can be fit in any scientific model that is define by secular science. it was a on time, 6 day supernatural event which places it outside of evolution and outside of the scope of science.

and no matter how hard anyone tries, they are not going to get the answers they seek as long as they omit God fromall their research, theories,conclusions and work. those people are headed in the wrong direction and use the excuse, 'we can't fit God in the test tube' well who said you should?

that mentality shows that a person's mind is stuck on one way of doing things and cannot comprehend that God does not work that way.
 
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gluadys

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dana3262 said:
in fact science will say plenty to refute a literal biblical creation

this is the crux of the whole issue. since secular science tries to do things through the natural way, omit & ignore God, comes up with alternatives to the Bible, why would any christian accept their findings? when did science receive the authority to overrule God's word?

You're right. This is the crux of the matter. So tell me, what is the basis for claiming that a literal biblical creation is God's Word?
 
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dana3262

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..........because denial is not changing the facts..........
Remember this!



secular science tries to do things through the natural way, omit & ignore God, comes up with alternatives to the Bible, why would any Christian accept their findings? when did science receive the authority to overrule God's word?
Science has no bias,it finds what it finds so why deny what it finds...if something is there it is there! Science has no interest in a result going one way or another,unlike religion!
Science has no authority over God because Scientifically God doesn't exist!

in all my conversations not one person, who has challenged me, has constructively criticised or analyzed one scientific conclusion or theory.
It would appear this way to you because you're to stubborn to see your own arrogance.

they have all defended secular science without thought and have acknowledged accepting their 'discoveries' because they have been tested over and over.

not one has said, 'hey wait a minute, this is secular science which doesn't believe in God, maybe we should take another look at the evidence with God in the picture.
'
Science will never do this because Scientifically God doesn't exist!
Its not a matter of not believing in God because scientifically God is not there to be believed in.
Do you take leprechauns into consideration when studying scripture?No,because they don't exist to you,without a doubt they don't exist.Same as God to science.

......that mentality shows that a person's mind is stuck on one way of doing things....
You sir are a prime example of this!

I cant even be bothered going through any more of your posts to highlight how flawed and illogical your reasoning is.

Science cannot back the existence of God and the sooner people realize this the better.
Why would you want science to say something thats not scientifically true?!?!?!, Science would then cease to be science and become myth.

Don't expect science to back something it cannot even see to test if its existence is real or not.You want science to say Gods real but give science nothing to come to this result with.
I'll say it again,Scientifically God doesn't exist.period!
 
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Deamiter

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Science will never do this because Scientifically God doesn't exist!
Its not a matter of not believing in God because scientifically God is not there to be believed in.
Do you take leprechauns into consideration when studying scripture?No,because they don't exist to you,without a doubt they don't exist.Same as God to science.
I'd like to object and expand on this. It's not that "to science God does not exist" but because God is not testable and no experiment can be repeated which would verify or falsify the existance of God, the existance of God cannot be tested.

Since the whole tool of science is designed to investigate the repeatable and testable aspects of nature, it is pretty obvious that it can say nothing about God. Science is certainly not all there is -- it's just a tool to tell us about the universe. Philosophy and theology are designed to probe past science (hence the term "meta-physics" or "beyond the physical") Science can never tell us about God or meaning but when used correctly, it is a well-crafted tool that can tell us much about God's creation.
 
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gluadys

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Scientifically, we cannot know whether God exists or not. Science is agnostic.

Another way to put it is to say that science cannot discriminate between the presence and absence of God.

Scientific testing requires a control test, so that X can be studied when factor Y is present and when factor Y is not present.

But there is no way to set up comparative situations in which we know that God is present in one instance and not present in the other.
 
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dana3262

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Scientific testing requires a control test

My point exactly,you can't test whats not there and in the world that science operates in God isn't there to be proven one way or another.

This is why religion and science are in compatible.Science can't prove God,we either believe or not but it has nothing to do with science.
 
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gluadys

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My point exactly,you can't test whats not there and in the world that science operates in God isn't there to be proven one way or another.

I think concluding that God is not there is going too far. Scientifically, we don't know that God is not there. Nor do we know that God is there. Neither conclusion is verifiable.

This is why religion and science are in compatible.Science can't prove God,we either believe or not but it has nothing to do with science.

Better, I think, to say incommensurable than incompatible. They are quite compatible as long as we remember not to ask one to do the job of the other.

Sorry, if that comes across as being too pedantic. I can be a stickler for precise meaning.
 
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archaeologist

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Scientifically, we cannot know whether God exists or not. Science is agnostic.

there is no neutrality with God. He states it very clearly--'you are either for Me or against Me..." Mt. 12:30
jesus said 'you can't serve two masters' it is an either or situation here (mt. 6:24ff)

My point exactly,you can't test whats not there and in the world that science operates in God isn't there to be proven one way or another

do you people ever listen to yourselves and read what you are writing? what does that tellyou? that christians do not belong in such a world for it is full of deception, sin, and things that are not of God.

that whole series of posts just say the same thing--we claim we arew christians but we will do our researchlike the seculr world and ignore God even though we claim we know God.

do you know how hypocritcal you sound?

But there is no way to set up comparative situations in which we know that God is present in one instance and not present in the other.

you people just don't get it.

in the world that science operates in
then why are 'christians' in that world when God said not to be there---'be ye inthe world BUT not of it'?

you are not doing anything for God if you allow science to continue in its sinful path.

to repeat myself, you guys do not get it. your love for secular science has clouded your vision, and understanding and has taken you down a path that is far from God.
 
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archaeologist

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because those that teach false things, need to be corrected or they will lead many more astray.

the reality is there is no neutrality with God, there is no agnosticism, no atheism and soon. you are either for God or against Him. He made it quite simple and clear.
 
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dana3262

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because those that teach false things, need to be corrected or they will lead many more astray.

the reality is there is no neutrality with God, there is no agnosticism, no atheism and soon. you are either for God or against Him. He made it quite simple and clear.

So essentially you're saying if people don't share your opinions on God and the Bible they're against God?
I don't know if you even see this is what your saying because this is what you're saying and this is being arrogant by believing your right and we are all wrong.

I feel you take everything literally ,a lot of Christians don't take most of the Bible literally so are they against God as well?

And the TE's that believe God used Evolution to create,are they against God?

Is the world flat?

Do snakes eat dust?

Does the sun die at the end of each day and a new one is born daily?

Do Atheists have no morals?

Actually,don't answer these questions you may only make a fool of yourself.
 
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