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Is it possible to be sinless for 5 seconds straight?

Is it possible to be sinless for 5 seconds straight?

  • Yes

  • No


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BibleloverBill

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John, if you say or do something right after you have re-committed to living Proverbs 3:5-6 and Jude 20-23, then what you do or say will be perfect because it is being urged by the Holy Spirit. He is the perfect guide for each of us about what to say and do. He says what He hears (John 16:13) and Who does He hear. Mostly Jesus Christ Who experienced being a human, and so He knows the proper time we each need the divine Truths.

***Very Important Teachings and Commandments By Jesus Christ in ETRSF (7 pgs.) -- Box

God bless you in the Sanctification Process. Christ-likeness will be the result.
 
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NBB

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The thing is why would one want to boast or preach in disobeying God on any level? Jesus says that we are to perfect. God says be ye holy as I am holy. Do you believe these verses in Scripture?

Yes of course, but we can't achieve 100% perfection, when God is saying to be perfect is not 100% pure, since always is going to be some minor things, i am not saying grave sins here but minor ones.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Yes of course, but we can't achieve 100% perfection, when God is saying to be perfect is not 100% pure, since always is going to be some minor things, i am not saying grave sins here but minor ones.

Hey, look. You are not arguing with me here; You arguing against what the Lord Jesus Christ said.

Jesus said,

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matthew 5:48).​

The Father is NOT perfect because He is mature. The Father is perfect because He is holy and sinless.

Jesus said,

"The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master." (Luke 6:40).​

You either believe Him or you don't believe Him.
The choice is yours.
I choose to believe what He says.
For faith is not something that is by sight, friend.
Even if the whole world does not follow Jesus, I will follow Him and believe what He says (sight unseen).
 
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NBB

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Good luck achieving perfection! when you do send me a PM , i will tell you have much to do to actual achieve it hehe.

I don't think Jesus was talking of be 100% sinless but to be enough to be called perfect.
 
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aiki

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And you are not really dealing with anything that I wrote

Well, I think those who are reading our exchange can see this is untrue.

Again, just because Paul says they are "brethren" does not mean they are saved brethren.

1 Corinthians 3:1
1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.


"In Christ" seems pretty conclusive to me. With this description of the "brethren" to whom he is writing, Paul leaves no room that I can see to think he is speaking of non-believers. I get that this rather fouls your view, but those carnal, spiritually immature, envious and divisive believers were genuinely born-again people. Now, how have I neglected to deal with your assertion about the supposed ambiguity of Paul's meaning when he calls the Corinthian Christians to whom he is writing "brethren"? I think I've dealt with it head-on.

The Bible already says in James 5:19-20 and the Parables of the Prodigal Son that a brother can be spiritually dead.

I very specifically explained from the text of both passages that what you've said is false. You have not offered any sort of rebuttal to my explanations except to restate your view (which is not really a rebuttal). Show me from the passages themselves how I am mistaken; not from your spin of them, but from what they actually say. My views remain firmly within the constraints of the grammar, context, and the natural reading of the passages. You have yet to show that they don't.

Jesus let the wheat and the weeds grow up together until the harvest and then the weeds will be removed. The weeds are those who do evil.

What does the parable of the wheat and tares have to do with Paul's descriptions of the sinning Corinthian believers? Your comments here are just another of your many deflections from the texts that defy your views.

As for the rest of what you wrote, it is not worth my time.

The final refuge of the weak position or of one who doesn't want to do the work necessary to properly justify his position.

You are sold on the idea that you can sin and still be saved by having a belief on Jesus.

Well, of course I am. It's what the Bible plainly indicates.

Sorry to disappoint you but God is good

Why would this be a disappointment to me? Of course He's good. And I'm very glad He is!

And Jesus says the pure heart are those who will see God (Matthew 5:8).

Which is all of those who've been fully justified and sanctified by trusting in him and who've been made "new creatures in Christ" by the baptism of the Spirit into Christ (Titus 3:5; 1 Corinthians 1:30; 1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17) as a result. That "pure heart" is a positional reality first of all, not a conditional one, or one that is always perfectly in evidence in one's living.

So there is no such thing as God justifying men who continue to do evil against Him.

No one's argued that God justifies the wickedness men do. But He does justify the men who do wickedness. If He did not, no one would be saved.

OSAS is an illusion that majority of churches have taken from the gnostic's belief that John was warning the brethren about (1 John 1:8).

Strawman.

For the OSAS Proponent will declare that when they sin physically, it is paid for spiritually by Jesus and therefore, there sin does not exist even when they do sin.

Strawman. I am staunchly OSAS in my view but believe no such thing.

Hebrews 5:9 essentially says Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him. It does not say to all who disobey Him and trust in His sacrifice. No verse or passage in the Bible even hints at such ridiculousness.

Strawman.
 
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ViaCrucis

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The Law doesn't stop condemning us in our sinful flesh after we have received the new man. The Law continues to condemn the old man whom we war against, which is why we need to drown ourselves daily in repentance.

The first use of the Law is to curb evil and pronounce what is right; the second use of the Law is to act as a mirror showing us our sins; and the third use is to show the regenerated how to live. Here's the rub, however, the third use does not abrogate the second use. Because we are still sinners, and the Law crucifies and mortifies our sinsful, unrighteous, unregenerate old man. Unless you have already attained perfect righteousness by our own righteous obedience to the Law, then you remain a condemned sinner under the Law. Note those words, "under the Law". Under the Law you are a condemned sinner. However by the grace of God, by the promise of the Holy Gospel, through faith, apart from the Law, you are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Under the Law you are condemned, under Grace you are redeemed. Know this distinction, know the difference, because no one is made righteous by the Law, for under the Law all stand condemned--all, save for one: Jesus Christ our Lord.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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BobRyan

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The Law doesn't stop condemning us in our sinful flesh after we have received the new man.

According to the Bible - it does.

Romans 1
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

The Law continues to condemn the old man whom we war against, which is why we need to drown ourselves daily in repentance.

Half of you will not go to heaven while the other half goes to hell. But I agree that the law always condemns sin and that daily confession and repentance is where we live. But the lost "do not submit to the law of God neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:4-11

The first use of the Law is to curb evil and pronounce what is right; the second use of the Law is to act as a mirror showing us our sins; and the third use is to show the regenerated how to live.

agreed.


That would be "no salvation at all until you live sinless" which is not the Gospel.

Note those words, "under the Law". Under the Law you are a condemned sinner

only if you are lost.

But that is not true of the born again saints. For them - there is no condemnation.

. However by the grace of God, by the promise of the Holy Gospel, through faith, apart from the Law, you are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.

That is true of all born-again Christians.

Under the Law you are condemned,

When you are a lost sinner.

under Grace you are redeemed.

Once you are born-again and become a Christian.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Good luck achieving perfection! when you do send me a PM , i will tell you have much to do to actual achieve it hehe.

I don't think Jesus was talking of be 100% sinless but to be enough to be called perfect.

I don't think you understand. A believer who has reached perfection is not going to boast about it. Besides, you can read about Zacharias and Elisabeth in how they were blameless in obeying the OT commandments (When the Old Covenant or Old Contract was in effect before the cross - See: Luke 1:5-6); And you can read about how the 144,000 (Messianic Jews who will appear in the End Times) are said to be without fault before the throne of God (Which is in context to their behavior), See: Revelation 14:3-5.

Also, what does the word "perfect" mean in Matthew 5:48?
It cannot mean "mature" because the Father does not grow to maturity and neither can the Father be perfected but yet not be perfect?

The Father is perfect because He is holy and sinless. It is the only way to read that verse unless you can think of another reason.
 
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Well, I think those who are reading our exchange can see this is untrue.

1 Corinthians 3:1
1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.

Well, they should NOT have been babes in Christ. That is the point. He had to speak to them as if they were spiritual babies when they should have been spiritually mature adults. The fact that they have not grown and need to be taught as if they can only understand the basics as milk babies can understand is because they are not saved!!! It does not mean they ARE spiritual babies. Paul is saying that he has to speak to them AS IF they were babies in Christ. But they are not. Babies grow up. These guys didn't grow up. Have you ever met a baby/adult before? Babies wear diapers and cry and poop and then cry some more. They need milk and do not understand things all too well. Babies do not remain in a baby like state forever!!! It is not natural for such a thing to happen like that. Baby/Adults do not exist! They are unnatural. They are carnal. Carnal is very very bad (See again Romans 8:6-7).

"I had to talk as though you belonged to this world or as though you were infants in the Christian life." (1 Corinthians 3:1) (NLT).​

The man barked as though he were a dog, that does not mean he is a dog.

"You are like babies as far as your faith in Christ is concerned." (1 Corinthians 3:1) (CEV).​

The man barked like a dog, that does not mean he is a dog.

"I spoke to you as if you were baby Christians." (1 Corinthians 3:1) (NLV)​

The man barked as if he were a dog, that does not mean he is a dog.

The carnal Christian.
There is ENVYING among them (See 1 Corinthians 3:3).
That is what 1 Corinthians 3 says.
Envy is to covet.
Covet is a major grievous sin.
Covet is mentioned alongside the sin of murder, etc.
They are not saved!!!!
Not even close!!!!
 
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~Anastasia~

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No - the ancient Christians are VERY clear - Christ has two natures, both Divine and human, beginning with the Incarnation. The incarnation was not merely God putting on a flesh "suit" but He became the God-man - the only unique such being ever.

Christ in two natures, not mixed or confounded, not able to be divided.

We have to be very careful in how we understand Jesus, so we do not worship a false God.

The human flesh He took on was like ours - else He would not be able to heal us from our sins. Yet He had no tendency to sin such as we are born with, but a perfect will.
 
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John the Ex-Baptist

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Do you believe that you can be saved by just having a belief on Jesus?
Absolutely 100% yes, yes, YES! There is utterly nothing whatsoever that I can contribute to my salvation, other than having the need to be saved from the wrath of God against my sin. The wonderful truth being that this need has been met in the atoning death of Jesus Christ in my place.

Romans 10:8–13 (ESV)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

2 Thessalonians 2:13 says that God has chosen us from the beginning to salvation by two things. One is a belief and the other is Sanctification of the Spirit (i.e. Holy living).

The passage you quoted says that we are saved "through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth". It is not referring to "holy living" as you claim, but by our being regenerated by the Holy Spirit as the redeeming work of Christ is applied to our life in baptism. A cross reference would be here:

Titus 3:4–7 (ESV)
4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

I am not denying for a second, the necessity for the Christian life to bear the fruit of true repentance and faith, which are the good works we are called into as children of God. But these are borne out of a life that is already both justified and sanctified, and do not contribute to this at all.
 
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NBB

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Even Paul said he did not reached what was set to him. And he was very advanced.
 
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aiki

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And on what grounds do you make this assertion? You are offering all of these declarations about what the verse must mean but no actual justifications for them. Of course, the Corinthian believers should not have been spiritually immature. That is exactly what Paul is getting at in calling them "babes in Christ." But Paul does not say that they were "babes" because they were not saved. No, he had only just called them brethren, so this assertion is ruled out completely. As I already explained, Paul leaves no wiggle room for what you're contending.

Paul is saying that he has to speak to them AS IF they were babies in Christ. But they are not. Babies grow up. These guys didn't grow up.

Babies grow up - eventually. But they must pass through a fairly significant span of time of growth (many years in length) before those babies become adults. In any case, the Corinthian believers had not grown as they should have and Paul was pointing this out. But he never even hinted that the reason for their lack of growth was that they were unsaved. What would be the point of criticizing non-believers for their lack of spiritual growth? As unbelievers without spiritual life they wouldn't be capable of spiritual growth. But the very fact that Paul is criticizing them for their lack of spiritual growth implies that Paul expected them to be growing! Why would he have such an expectation of those who weren't, as you contend, saved?

They are carnal. Carnal is very very bad (See again Romans 8:6-7).

Obviously.

"I had to talk as though you belonged to this world or as though you were infants in the Christian life." (1 Corinthians 3:1) (NLT).

The man barked as though he were a dog, that does not mean he is a dog.

Yes, and? Paul was writing to adults, not children. Obviously, he was not suggesting that the adult Corinthian believers were actually babies when he described them as "babes in Christ." So, what's your point?

"You are like babies as far as your faith in Christ is concerned." (1 Corinthians 3:1) (CEV).

The man barked like a dog, that does not mean he is a dog.

And, again, what's your point? Paul quite obviously did not intend to assert that the Corinthian believers were real babies. He is employing figurative language, a metaphor, to emphasize the spiritual immaturity of the Corinthian Christians. What is important about the phrase "babes in Christ" is that Paul describes these spiritually immature Corinthians as being "in Christ." Only the genuinely born-again are in Christ. Paul, then, is plainly indicating that the brethren to whom he was speaking were true members of God's family. So far, you've only offered a deflection from this fact. Focusing upon the metaphor of "babes" is just a tactic of distraction from the impossible task of interpreting "in Christ" to mean something other than "saved."


Well, your exclamation points aside, Paul disagrees.
 
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Eloy Craft

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And it's unforgivable blasphemy to watch someone operating under the power of the Holy Spirit can call that act sinful.
What does it mean then to discern the spirit?
 
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It's not possible to worship GOD alone if Jesus had a created human spirit. It is illogical to suggest otherwise.
 
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If 1 Corinthians 3, Romans 7:14-24, 1 John 1:8 were the only verses in the Bible then you might be on to something, but the reality is that we have an over abundance of verses that teach that not justifying sin and or living holy (after being saved by God's grace) is also required as a part of the salvation process (Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62, 1 John 3:15, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Titus 1:16). Believers are not forgiven of future sin because they still have to go to Jesus (1 John 2:1) and confess sin to be forgiven (1 John 1:9) and walk in the light (i.e. "to love your brother" while abiding in God) as He (Christ) is in the light (God the Father) for the blood to cleanse them (1 John 1:7) (Also see: Proverbs 28:13, Matthew 12:41 cf. with Jonah 3:6-10). Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him (See Hebrews 5:9).

Anyways, I doubt my arguing over the different points is ever going to convince you. If you cannot understand the basic concept of morality that the good guys do good and the bad guys do evil, you are never going to truly understand. Thus, I really cannot help you. You should know this basic concept when you watch a movie, or when you check the news, or when you go out into the world. You know the hero from the villain by what they do and not by a belief alone. 1 John 3:7 says he that does righteousness is righteous. We are told not to be deceived on this point. Yet, you seem to think otherwise. God is good and He cannot agree with evil. It's as simple as that.

"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 5:29).

If any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6).

The grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live godly and righteously in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). The grace of God does not teach us that we can agree with unrighteousness by saying that we can sin and still be saved.

"And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in wickedness." (1 John 5:19).

Yet, you think Christians can lie in wickedness just like the world because you think the Corinthians mentioned in 1 Corinthians 3 were saved carnal Christians. Yet, we are to shine as lights to the world (in being different from them in the fact that THE WORLD lies in wickedness (i.e. sin)). It's called basic morality or the goodness of GOD. I cannot help you if you don't fully understand or fully accept basic concepts like this.
 
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No, my friend. This is not what the Bible teaches! The Lord also not only saves in Justification, but He also saves in Sanctification (by helping us to live holy), too. For...

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:


(Here are a List of Verses):

“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;” (Titus 2:11-12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).
 
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RE: Romans 10 (Verses 8-13):

Yes, this is talking about "Initial Salvation." Paul was talking to Jews and his desire for them to be saved.

"Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved." (Romans 10:1).


No. The context of 1 Thessalonians 2:13 (that references the belief of the truth and Sanctification as a part of salvation) is talking about a belief and in how one lives. For verse 12 says this:

"That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (1 Thessalonians 2:12).

#1. Not believing the truth (verse 12) is contrasted (with): Believing the truth (verse 13).

#2. Had pleasure in unrighteousness (verse 12) is contrasted (with): Sanctification of the Spirit (Holy Living) (verse 13).​

How can we double confirm that?

16 "...and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work." (1 Thessalonians 2:16-17).​

And establish you in every good work.

Establish you in every good work.

Let that sink in for a moment.


RE: Titus 3 (Verses 4-7):

Again, this piece of Scripture is talking about "Initial Salvation" or the "Foundation of our Faith" in how we are ultimately saved. It is saying we are not saved by: "Works Alone Salvationism" because they were fighting against "Circumcision Salvationism" and or in trying to be saved by going back to the Old Contract (or the Old Covenant and it's 613 laws as a whole, i.e. the Law of Moses, i.e. the Law or the works of the Law - See my next post to you for the verses). They are not talking about the necessity of works of faith that follow God's grace here. They already mentioned the necessity of that in the previous chapter here:

11 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;" (Titus 2:11-12).​

Do you believe that it is possible to live righteously and that this is a part of the teaching of God's grace?


Do you believe King David was saved while committing his sins of adultery and murder? If so, then you are teaching that a person can sin while under God's grace (Which is turning God's grace into a doctrine for immorality - See Jude 1:4).

In fact, if you believe a Christian can do good and yet also commit grievous sin and still be saved (while doing that sin or in not overcoming it) is not the kind of faith that Jesus Christ will accept.

Behold, the scene at the Judgment:

Many will say to Jesus:

"Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?"
And Jesus will say to them:

"I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity."
(Matthew 7:22-23).

Jesus says to many believers:
"You...that work... iniquity."

I see many Christians today telling me how we can commit grievous sin (on some level) and still be saved while under God's grace;
But yet, Jesus tells these kind of believers to depart from Him, though.

For me: My soul is too important to play games with. I wouldn't even want a belief that was even remotely close to anything like a faith that justifies sin or iniquity (on some level).

Side Note:

Imagine if you told a child that they are saved by God's grace and it is not in anything they do. Imagine if they never see you again, and they take your words ("Not saved by anything you do") to mean that they can sin and still be saved (while having a belief on Jesus). What if your words make that child to grow up to be the next George Sodini?

To see who George Sodini is, check out this article here.

Does not the Bible say that there is going to be really bad consequences for a person who makes a child to sin?
 
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@John the Ex-Baptist:

There is a difference between the works of faith vs. the works of the Law:

Works of Faith:

"Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;" (1 Thessalonians 1:3).

"Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:" (2 Thessalonians 1:11).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17).

"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." (James 2:18).

"Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?" (James 2:22).

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." (James 2:26).​


Works of the Law:
(i.e. the works of the Law of Moses):

"Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;" (Romans 9:32).

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Galatians 2:16).

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" (Galatians 3:2).

"He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" (Galatians 3:5).

"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." (Galatians 3:10).​


What "book of the Law" existed at that time?
The New Testament Scriptures?
No. This was the Torah!!!
 
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