Is it or isn't it?

[Susan]

I once promised to myself, after all the problems I have had as a moderator with keeping homosexuality-related discussions civil, that I would never, ever, EVER start one of these headaches for a mod in another forum.

I now break that promise, in the interests of starting what I *hope* will be a civil debate thread, and if anyone off-topics this to a general discussion of homosexuality, I will chase them with the Newspaper of Doom and swat them as the pests they are.

Is Gundam Wing canon shounen ai/yaoi or not?

I personally believe it is, because of the following reasons among others:

The relationships between the pilots seem deeper than their relationships with the allegedly canon female leads. In almost all of the hetero pairing implications that are there, the guys aren't making the first move, or usually, any move.

The allegedly canon male-female relationships (aside from SallyxChang) are almost all *really* sick. i.e. Relena obsessively stalks Heero, who relates to her rather abusively to say the least, Trowa is in love with Catherine his first cousin (in the manga, it's even worse incest-she's his sister! GAG!).

Much of the series's music carries a yaoiish theme. (and no, by that, I don't mean they're singing "Y.M.C.A." and dressed in drag) http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/gundamw/. The opening theme, "Just Communication" plays against a backdrop of the five male series leads in their fighting poses.

In short, I do not see how *anyone* (coughcoughsomeoneIknewatCAAcoughcough) can deny that GW has at least some mild shounen ai implied in it. Nevertheless, I've wanted to debate this issue in a civil manner, and hopefully stay on topic.

 

[ThePhoenix]

Y'see, the entire Gundam series has caused me so much pain that I never bothered to check out Gundam wing. I had someone tell me it was very different from other painful Gundam Series (G Gundam, Gundam 0083, etc.) but I never could bring myself to watch it.

 

[Marth]

eh, i thought gundam wing was boring...(i say eh a lot, eh?) but i mean i guess if i really thought about it, it could be shonenai but i dont like yaoi (in fact my name on a fanfiction review on a site is TheAnti-YaoistCrusader lol)

 

[Lucent]

I can't really say that there is any shounen ai/yaoi in GW. I can see how it could look like that, but I don't think it was intentional.

The pilots are portrayed (right from the start) as warriors/killers/proffessionals, and not much else. Some of them have personal hobbies, like Quatre's violin playing, but first and foremost, they are sent to Earth to fight till they die.

That being said, I can't imagine why the writers would put shounen ai/yaoi content in on purpose. It makes more sense to me that the pilots were just 'lonely soldiers' (except Heero, who refused to admit he was lonely), and that they were just looking for some kind of 'companionship'.

Not a romantic companionship, but just someone to share their feelings with. Basically they just wanted other people who understood who they really were. And who else would better understand a Gundam pilot than a fellow Gundam pilot. There were other characters in the show that connected with the guys (for instance, Trowa came to trust Catherine as he came to realize that she understood him).

I think that the big thing with the Gundam Pilots acting a little 'odd' at times is just them thinking that nobody understands them.

Short answer: I think that shounen ai/yaoi is not intended in GW, but something that was (understandably) misunderstood by fans.

NOTE: If you want to believe that it is cannon, more power to ya.

 

[Lucent]

I had someone tell me it was very different from other painful Gundam Series (G Gundam, Gundam 0083, etc.) but I never could bring myself to watch it.

G Gundam was the WORST of the Gundam series. I feel sorry for you if you actually watched more than a few episodes of that trash.

 

[Susan]

Yeah, G Gundam was terrible.

 

[ThePhoenix]

G Gundam was the WORST of the Gundam series. I feel sorry for you if you actually watched more than a few episodes of that trash.

I watched two. They made my brain hurt.

 

[Susan]

LOL, I did the same. Wing's better.

 

[Blessed-one]

Short answer: I think that shounen ai/yaoi is not intended in GW, but something that was (understandably) misunderstood by fans.

well well... ABSOLUTELY!!
and thanks for the long explanation, couldn't have said it better..

i think GW is one of the few animes that portrays deep relationship of the same gender without implying something else either in their manner or dressing.

 

[PistGurl]

Gundam wing confused me, at first because CNX never put it on in order, but after that because I never knew if Heero and Duo were at it or not!!!

Anyway, It makes more sense that Heero and Relena!!! I have them on my desktop, cos I think they're great, every picture they're in, they're together, it could be 'companionship', but a deep companionship, that over that much time, and in those situations, has been very strong not to turn into something else. I love gundam wing, and when you watch it, no matter whether you start the storyline believing they are together, or not, it's still kinda the same, but when they are, it's a little more romantic, and sad as well, so I like to think that there is an alament of Shonen ai in there somewhere, even if it was unintentional, and even if there isn't!!!

 

[SAint Mark]

G Gundam was the WORST of the Gundam series. I feel sorry for you if you actually watched more than a few episodes of that trash.

Followed shortly by Gundam X... A few episodes of that will make even the most harcore anime fan fall alseep even in the middle of the day

Never watched Gundam Wing though... but from what I've heard I think I agree with lucent.

 

[Susan]

Gundam wing confused me, at first because CNX never put it on in order, but after that because I never knew if Heero and Duo were at it or not!!!

Anyway, It makes more sense that Heero and Relena!!! I have them on my desktop, cos I think they're great, every picture they're in, they're together, it could be 'companionship', but a deep companionship, that over that much time, and in those situations, has been very strong not to turn into something else. I love gundam wing, and when you watch it, no matter whether you start the storyline believing they are together, or not, it's still kinda the same, but when they are, it's a little more romantic, and sad as well.

These are the reasons I like 1x2x1 as a pairing myself. It *does* make a LOT more sense than Heero and Relena, I personally think it's a healthier relationship than 1xR.

(Maybe because I have a major distaste for horribly unequal or abusive relationship depictions with *most* pairings-I personally don't even like the insistence on pairs being seme and uke in shounen ai and yaoi-it's unrealistic and, in almost all pairings aside from say, Knives/Legato or Yuki/Shuichi where the dynamic is *obvious* that one partner is dominant, it is horribly OOC. 99 percent of the time I prefer equality and mutual love pairings.)

I totally agree with your other point too. The only one who would understand what someone like these characters went through, who would understand enough to really be there for them, would be another character who went through the same experiences, who shared that same common bond.

 

[PistGurl]

Wow....totally right...I have a pic of Heero and Duo kind of hugging...and it says at the top in big bold letters HEERO X DUO and then looking at that I just feel so sorry for Duo...and the picture is cute before that...but once you think about the whole dominance thing it's justso blatantly obvious that Duo is being made to do something he doesn't want to do in the pic...I mean they are just hugging, but Heero is behind him, and holding his arms, and Duo's got this look on his face that at first looks like 'ooh you scared me' in a cute way...and Heero looks all tense and broody, but then after you start thinking, Duo just looks like he's being held really tight and it kinda looks painful *starts thinking about how sad her conversation is getting* ok, I'm done.

 

[Blessed-one]

yeah, but it's a pic right? nothing like that in the anime.

howcome lots of people don't like the Heero/Relena pairing? it's shown quite clearly what his feeling is towards her in the ending, and even more clearly so if you've seen the ending movie "Endless Waltz".

 

[Susan]

You asked for it. . .

I already stated one reason that I don't like RelenaxHeero-the abusive and obsessive nature of the relationship.

Another reason I don't like it is that it looks, to me, like Heero just giving in to Relena's obsessed stalking. . .which I don't particularly like.

 

[Susan]

In contrast to what one of the posters mentioned, this is a 1+2+1 style pic.

 

[Blessed-one]

oh, i've seen that pic!! years ago and really like it.
um, just normal comradeship, was how i saw it.

Another reason I don't like it is that it looks, to me, like Heero just giving in to Relena's obsessed stalking. . .which I don't particularly like.

lol! yes, but i suppose no one would have ever gotten 'in' to him (as in reaching out and get to know him personally) if that person was not persistent enough. Heero just wouldn't let his emotions show, and in that, he's even worse than Trowa.

and with that type of character, a more initiative female character in the role is not too unexpected.

 

[Arikereba]

There was such a big doujinshi culture in Japan even before GW came out, the creators couldn't possibly have been naive about what they were doing. They made a show about five really pretty guys who pilot giant robots and have internal angst. This is the stuff from which doujinshi and fanfiction are made! Doujinshi and fanfiction are good for business from a Japanese point of view: they inspire people to watch the show obsessively and buy all the toys, after all. (Soundtracks and toys and stationery and accessories are MUCH bigger money makers for anime companies than the videos and DVDs are).

Unless the people writing GW were utterly clueless, they wrote it knowing that people would interpret gay relationships there, and they deliberately slanted it in such a way that such an interpretation would be plausible.

There's a weakness in shows that deliberately tease their audiences like that (I think the Yami no Matsuei manga does it too, for example). It's impossible for me to create a "secondary belief" in the worlds of these shows, because I'm so aware that it's just the creators trying to manipulate my emotions.

Gundam Wing yaoi is, IMHO, neither canon nor solely a fan creation. It's a bundle of hints and glances that the writers handed the fanbase with a wink and a nod, saying "Do with these what you will."

 

[ThePhoenix]

Much like Bubblegum Crisis's (original, not 2040) Yuri elements. Just enough to tease, not enough to truly give you anything. Supremely frustrating IMO.

 

[MoonlessNight]

The reason why so many people think there is shounen ai is simple. It's because of a little formula I devised:

Silent Loner + Effeminate Male = Shounen Ai.

(for example, think of Hiei and Kurama)

Now in Gundam Wing you have two characters that are definitely silent loners (Heero and Trowa) and two characters that are rather effeminate (Duo and Quatre). It's only inevitable that fans are going to suspect shounen-ai, no matter what content is in the series.