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This is intellectualism of the worst sort. I cant be bothered to respond further.
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What a silly non-historical, non-geographically minded and non-contexual question to ask. This is not how current notions about 'freedom' have come to light in the conscience of the Western World, Hmm. It hasn't been merely by standing side by side with William Wilberforce. The point here in my saying this is that if the structure of the argument for Christian Universalism is 'true,' it will be on lines of evaluation other than those on which anti-slavery morality is structured. So, just drop the slavery analogy.
No, it's not "only felt." It's ludicrous for you to say it is on the whole and I know you're smarter than that. So, maybe back off from this sort of positioning of your view.
Furthermore, for you to insist on asserting what grounding "IS" belies your understanding of what "philosophy" is. It's essentially a contradictory act for you to make, and where claims of knowledge are prudent, I hope you realize that your inference as to what constitutes truths of "philosophy" in contradistinction to some sort of "other truths" stands on the precipice of solipsism. It's not a good place to be, and I'm just trying to point this out to you before you make Christian Universalism sound like a mere wish well of dreams rather than a rational interpretive option for any Christian to have.
This is intellectualism of the worst sort.
There is a huge difference between ceasing the opportunity to bring people out of poverty and slavery, to show, experience, give, receive and grow God's Love and eliminate poverty and slavery and the opportunities they provide.I'm not interested in intellectual argument either. - see my previous post about feeling and slavery.To me, the conclusion that slavery and poverty etc is not intrinsically wrong and is even supported by God, can only come about through intellectual reasoning that has lost its way somewhere.
No I suggested look at the evidence for yourself to confirm what I posted, if I post it, it is my concept, if the experts write it, it must be a fact. It is not difficult to see that slavery in biblical times is much different than the slavery we had in this nation.Non-responsive. . .you avoided answering my question.
Nor did I lose it, nor was I without it when you brought me out.
I already had life, you led me to what I already had. . .in order to preserve what I already had, not to give me what I didn't have, as in Romans 5:18b.
That one isn't working, because the analogy is incorrect.
There's different views of how salvation works.
When I was a little boy who didn't know how to swim and went under water in the deep end of a pool, a man jumped in grabbed me and saved me. That would be outright salvation without anything being done by the one who was saved.
Another way to save a drowning person is to toss a life preserver ring at then to grab onto. The savior did his part, and the drowning person has to do their part by accepting the life ring and grabbing onto it.
Then it could be a matter of lifting someone out of the water. Or it could be a matter of someone having to climb up the tether to safety. Or the person could be required to hang onto the tethered life ring the entire time the boat makes its way to shore.
So, however it works, God, being God, will eventually succeed and break through to each one of us. We will have been transformed and free from whatever was blocking us from God in this life and will freely and gladly want to be with God, as with the prodigal son.
As I understand it, this is the basic argument and it is to me iron-clad. I'm sure others will disagree but it's very hard to know what people actually think of it because of all the strawmen that are continually held up.
If God's saves all, what would the point of the atonement, the resurrection, and being a faithful follower of Christ?
God's Love is perfect, but man's acceptance of that Love in the form of undeserved charitable forgiveness is conditional on man's part.Exactly, “God, being God,” therefore. A certain view of God makes for a certain view of salvation. As an argument that’s very simple and very good, in my opinion.
It’s as iron clad so far as we believe Gods patience endures, or that His love for the lost remains. When the love or the patience dries up, then maybe people could argue that God no longer courts humanity and desires that they enter into communion with Him.
Does God ever cease loving? If no, then it’s hard to believe that His pursuit (even His victory) over sinful humanity ever stops.
Scripture not only says that love doesn’t fail, it also teaches that Gods anger won’t abide forever. So anger fails, but love remains, this is in small part why love is seen as the highest Christian virtue.
God's Love is perfect, but man's acceptance of that Love in the form of undeserved charitable forgiveness is conditional on man's part.
Suppose the young son is macho enough to take the punishment he fully deserves and stays and starves to death in the pigsty, did the father stop Loving him?
It's not about quality of life, its about the very existence of life.I don't to stretch the analogy too far but... life in the war zone is a life of fear, cold and starvation and being rescued gives a life of peace, warmth and security again so, even though you had life before,
it's not true to say that being rescued gave you nothing you didn't have.
But I've kind of forgotten the whole point of the analogy now. It's like when you have to explain a joke!
There's different views of how salvation works.
When I was a little boy who didn't know how to swim and went under water in the deep end of a pool, a man jumped in grabbed me and saved me. That would be outright salvation without anything being done by the one who was saved.
Another way to save a drowning person is to toss a life preserver ring at then to grab onto. The savior did his part, and the drowning person has to do their part by accepting the life ring
The new birth is not equivalent to salvaging a spiritual life one already has.and grabbing onto it.
Then it could be a matter of lifting someone out of the water. Or it could be a matter of someone having to climb up the tether to safety. Or the person could be required to hang onto the tethered life ring the entire time the boat makes its way to shore.
Exactly, “God, being God,” therefore. A certain view of God makes for a certain view of salvation. As an argument that’s very simple and very good, in my opinion.
It’s as iron clad so far as we believe Gods patience endures, or that His love for the lost remains. When the love or the patience dries up, then maybe people could argue that God no longer courts humanity and desires that they enter into communion with Him.
It's not about anger, it's about justice under God's law.Does God ever cease loving? If no, then it’s hard to believe that His pursuit (even His victory) over sinful humanity ever stops.
Scripture not only says that love doesn’t fail, it also teaches that Gods anger won’t abide forever. So anger fails, but love remains, this is in small part why love is seen as the highest Christian virtue.
Scripture informs us in some cases God has already decided and gave some over.Exactly, “God, being God,” therefore. A certain view of God makes for a certain view of salvation. As an argument that’s very simple and very good, in my opinion.
It’s as iron clad so far as we believe Gods patience endures, or that His love for the lost remains. When the love or the patience dries up, then maybe people could argue that God no longer courts humanity and desires that they enter into communion with Him.
Does God ever cease loving? If no, then it’s hard to believe that His pursuit (even His victory) over sinful humanity ever stops.
Scripture not only says that love doesn’t fail, it also teaches that Gods anger won’t abide forever. So anger fails, but love remains, this is in small part why love is seen as the highest Christian virtue.
It's not about quality of life, its about the very existence of life.
Jesus gives eternal life to the spiritually dead, he doesn't just lead into a better spiritual life than you currently have, because the not born again are spiritually dead.
Yes, we are all born without eternal life, and in spiritual death, thanks to Adam who lost it for us.Does that include babies, children, people with mental healthy issues or learning difficulties who are not born again? Let alone good atheists or Muslims who care and love the poor and therefore, as Jesus said, care and love Him?
Yes, we are all born without eternal life, and in spiritual death, thanks to Adam who lost it for us.
Scripture informs us in some cases God has already decided and gave some over.
Romans 1:24Jesus also has already decided on some.
(24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Romans 1:26
(26) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Romans 1:28
(28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Matthew 7:21-23
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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