Is it okay for a U.S. christian to own a liquor store?

[chevyontheriver]

You must have missed the parts about the Greek word and its meaning and the context applied with that Greek word.

If you want to discuss this, make another thread and we can discuss our points.

Nah. We just have some differences in how we read Scripture. Differences you will not likely yield on no matter how long we discuss it. But then I'm not forcing you to drink, nor forcing you to sell alcoholic beverages. Just noting what Paul said as a plain fact.

 

[section9+1]

I wouldn't. Any business that preys upon human weakness is dangerous. I'm not against alcohol by itself, but this is a predatory business. Alcohol is a drug and is easily misused and is addictive. I think it can legitimately be used, but it too often is misused. Any business that preys upon human necessity is also dangerous.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That's contrary to 1Co 10:25 & 28-29. Paul was permitted to eat it.

Eat it -- ask no questions for the conscience of the other. He had liberty. Their conscience didn't.

That was Paul speaking to Gentiles. Did you read the verse I quoted from Revelation 2 in my post?

“But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

But the apostle Paul advised Timothy to drink some wine. And Jesus made wine as his very first sign.

I don’t think the intention of drinking wine was to get drunk. Personally I think that wine was commonly used in celebrations because it was considered more of a delicacy or a luxury. I think wine was mostly chosen because of its long shelf life since they had no way to keep fruit juices refrigerated.

 

[blackhole]

That was Paul speaking to Gentiles. Did you read the verse I quoted from Revelation 2 in my post?

“But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭NASB‬‬

I did. But how then does it coincide with 1Co 8?

1Co 8:1 Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies.
1Co 8:2 And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.
1Co 8:3 But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.
1Co 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
1Co 8:7 However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.
1Co 8:8 But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse.
1Co 8:9 But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak.
1Co 8:10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols?
1Co 8:11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
1Co 8:12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.
1Co 8:13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

 

[Acts2:38]

Differences you will not likely yield on no matter how long we discuss it.

But the apostle Paul advised Timothy to drink some wine. And Jesus made wine as his very first sign.

Even if it was alcoholic for timothys case, it was medicinal. That in no way implies recreational or anything of the sort. Anyone that claims differently is grasping at straws.

As for Jesus, the article I placed explained it perfectly. In addition to that, explained the Greek word for wine.

How do you explain what Jesus did at Cana?

The article I placed explained it quite well.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I did. But how then does it coincide with 1Co 8?

1Co 8:1 Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies.
1Co 8:2 And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.
1Co 8:3 But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him.
1Co 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
1Co 8:7 However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled.
1Co 8:8 But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse.
1Co 8:9 But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak.
1Co 8:10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols?
1Co 8:11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
1Co 8:12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.
1Co 8:13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.

Again Paul is writing to the Gentiles. He’s not addressing Jews. Paul and Jesus do not contradict one another.

 

[Hank77]

How do liquor stores owned by Christians tempt people to get drunk?

Both supply the means to sin. Neither sets that as their goal. Neither recommends it. Both are against it.

Walmart doesn't profit from people stealing. Liquor stores profit from sales to alcoholics.

 

[blackhole]

Again Paul is writing to the Gentiles. He’s not addressing Jews. Paul and Jesus do not contradict one another.

Gentile Christians...

So you're suggesting that a Gentile Christian can eat sacrificed meat, but not a Jewish Christian, correct?

Pergamum was an ancient Greek city, so Rev 2 is written to Gentiles -- right?

 

[blackhole]

Walmart doesn't profit from people stealing. Liquor stores profit from sales to alcoholics.

Yet both create temptation... Non-sequitur. The Bible doesn't call something a temptation based on whether you profit. Many evil people tempt us and earn nothing; heck, they'll spend money to do it!

 

[friend of]

I'm gonna say no. It's not right to be a purveyor of alcoholism.

 

[dqhall]

1Co 9
19 For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. 21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.

1Co 10
27 If one of the unbelievers invites you to dinner and you are disposed to go, eat whatever is set before you without raising any question on the ground of conscience. 28 But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for the sake of conscience— 29 I do not mean your conscience, but his. For why should my liberty be determined by someone else's conscience? 30 If I partake with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of that for which I give thanks?

--------------

I am not interested in owning a liqour store. However, my interest is a near-direct correlate. I am not going to explain what it is, because that will derail the thread.

My question: is it acceptable for a Christian to own a liquor store? It seems that it would make it difficult to share the gospel with a lot of people, because of our society's negative view; they assume a Christian shouldn't do such a thing. However, immediacy does seem to be a major function. If Paul was a Jew to the Jews, and something else when dealing with others, then clearly those role would contradict. If the Jew found out about Paul's behavior before others, he would be offended; Paul didn't seem to be worried about this (unless Paul took an inclusive approach, and did nothing that would offend anyone, anywhere, at any time). It seems that Paul's concern was for the immediate; for example, he might not eat sacrificed meat in front of them, but he might eat it in private. Or he might own a liquor store, but he might not purchase it in front of the offendable parties.

And what about quasi-immediacy? Specifically this: if you decide that it's okay to own the liquor store and you buy it, but then someone that you're speaking to directly finds out and lets you know that they think it's wrong, do you have to sell the store?

Lastly, how far do we take this? If we own a beautiful car and someone says we should have instead spent that extra money to feed the hungry, do we have to sell it and do just that? cf. Pro 31 and also the coat of many colors. Regarding which issues (cars? liquor stores?) or in which situations (immediacy?) or other factors (majority opinion?) do we become all things to all people?

And remember that Paul publicly stated (in the Bible) that Timothy was to drink an alcoholic drink (wine). This offends many Christians.

I own stocks and bonds. I avoided direct investment in cannabis stocks, tobacco companies, gambling casinos, brothels, defense stocks and distilleries. There are plenty of other profitable businesses to invest in.

I drank wine sometimes, not every day.

 

[Hank77]

Yet both create temptation... Non-sequitur. The Bible doesn't call something a temptation based on whether you profit. Many evil people tempt us and earn nothing; heck, they'll spend money to do it!

My objection to a Christian owning a liquor store isn't based on creating a temptation but in profiting off other's addictions.

 

[friend of]

Would this include owning a strip club then?

Strip clubs are way off base for any Christian to have anything to do with...

 

[chevyontheriver]

I don’t think the intention of drinking wine was to get drunk. Personally I think that wine was commonly used in celebrations because it was considered more of a delicacy or a luxury. I think wine was mostly chosen because of its long shelf life since they had no way to keep fruit juices refrigerated.

And most people do not drink wine, or beer, or whatever, to get drunk. Some do, but that is an abuse. Just like one can abuse food and almost anything else.

 

[topher694]

Strip clubs are way off base for any Christian to have anything to do with...

I know. That's what I was driving at. Clearly there IS a line between acceptable and not acceptable. Therefore we must be tuned into the Spirit to help us discern where that line is.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Gentile Christians...

So you're suggesting that a Gentile Christian can eat sacrificed meat, but not a Jewish Christian, correct?

Pergamum was an ancient Greek city, so Rev 2 is written to Gentiles -- right?

But Jesus specifically says

“But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

[blackhole]

But Jesus specifically says

“But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Isn't it using sons of Israel in the sense of those who have faith, not those who have certain ancestors? See below.

Rom 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Rom 11
7 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

Gal 3
7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Even if it was alcoholic for timothys case, it was medicinal. That in no way implies recreational or anything of the sort. Anyone that claims differently is grasping at straws.

As for Jesus, the article I placed explained it perfectly. In addition to that, explained the Greek word for wine.



The article I placed explained it quite well.

I'm rather skeptical of your article. Sorry.

 

[BNR32FAN]

And most people do not drink wine, or beer, or whatever, to get drunk. Some do, but that is an abuse. Just like one can abuse food and almost anything else.

I wouldn’t want to profit from anything that could potentially become a stumbling block for someone. From my extensive experience as a sinful unbeliever til the age of 38 years old there were very few that I can recall who didn’t drink to get drunk. I would put the ratio around 1 out of 30 people that I knew didn’t drink to get drunk. But then again perhaps we are from different crowds. I grew up around the blue collar Texas crowd. Predominantly unbelievers.

 

[BNR32FAN]

There are no contradictions in the Bible just misinterpreted messages.