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Is it moral to discuss who has the right to call themselves Christian?
- Thread starter Beanieboy
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brightmorningstar
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To beanieboy,
yes that is exactly not what I am talking about. If someone called themselves a Christian but believed everything a Buddhist believed they would be a Buddhist.
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What about Buddhism contradicts Christiianity?
That you should treat others with loving kindness?
That should not be attached to material things?
That you should act as a servant for others?
That one should search their heart to make sure they are pure of thought, word, and deed?
That one should forgive others who harm you?
That one should return curse with blessing?
I don't know everything there is to believe as a Buddhist, but most of the teachings are in line with Christ's message.
Basically, Buddhists are to live in peace, and practice loving kindness towards one another, not just say it.
They are to remove the planks out of their own eyes, rather than focus on the specks in the eyes of others.
There are certainly some differences, such as, the is no Jesus in Buddhism. However, if one is Buddhist AND Christian, their philosphy and religion doesn't contradict one another. I identified as Buddhist because I was tired of always having to defend how I could possibly be homosexual and Christian by other Christians. So, I finally said, "Fine. I won't call myself Christian anymore." I didn't like the way I was constantly scrutinized while they forgave themselves.
And I turned to explore Buddhism.
I was led to this book:
Amazon.com: Christ Mind, Buddha Heart (9781411633193): Dale A. Johnson: Books
This book taught me how to love those who harmed me
Amazon.com: Awakening The Buddhist Heart: Integrating Love, Meaning, and Connection into Every Part of Your Life (9780767902779): Lama Surya Das: Books
And it also taught me that no man can tell another who is and isn't Christian. I have found some Christians who behave worse than any nonChristians I have ever met, acting more like the Gospel account of the Pharisees.
Buddhism also teaches that the Truth is durable. You should be able to question the truth, test the Truth, and find the same answer every time. Christianity often just demanded that one accept the truth, (especially that of the person speaking who claimed to know The Mind of God), demanded that one obey rather than question, to accept a verse on face value, rather than look at the culture, the translation, etc.
Do I believe in the concept of reincarnation? I find it irrelevant, because now, this moment, is the only thing I know for sure, and the only thing that I can affect. I see heaven as a state of being, even while still living. One is in communion with God.
I don't believe that everyone who is not Christian does not have a relationship with God, does not have God within them. As God breathed life into Adam, so does God breathe life, and in so, dwell with in each person. Buddhists and Hindis will then put their hands together and say, "Namaste", I bow to the God within. In saying this, their respect the person, and acknowledge that the other is an equal, also having God within them, also loved by God. Ironically, some Christians act like the Pharisees, thinking themselves holier than the sinners, not being a sinner themselves of course, being loved more by God because they obey and let everyone know it, because they alone follow the one true God, the same God that their parents followed, down to the same denomination. They may look to the Muslim, one who, from my observation, has a much more integrated religion, saying, "I cannot leave my religion any more than I can change my race or get a new body - it's a part of who I am." They will look at the Muslim in pity, as misled, as ignorant, as an enemy of God, even. However, the Muslims in my class left to pray in the middle of class, one of 5 times one prays each day. Many lay Christians pat themselves on the back if they pray once a day, or once a week. The Muslim faith demands that if a person is hungry, that the Muslim is obligated to feed them.
Jesus said the same thing in the story of the Sheep and the Goats, and commanded, not suggested, but commanded, that Christians love their neighbor as themselves, yet, on this board, I have had Christians challenge me on this, and say, "Why should I?"
Why should they love their neighbor as themselves?
That is a question I will let them figure out themselves.
I think what seems to make so many Christians get all excited and agitated, saying things like, "Any one who believes everything a Buddhist believes is not a Christian" is simply threatened that Buddhism has some positive things to teach, and needing to feed their ego, to know that they have the right religion, have the authority, they often know little if anything about Buddhism.
A friend said to me once, quoting the Imperials: It won't be Old Buddha sitting on the throne!!"
I said, "Well, we agree on something," and smiled.
He said, "Wait, what?"
I said, "What? Buddhists don't worship Buddha."
He said, "But the Buddhist statues..."
I said, "Do you worship a cross? You face it. You talk to it. Do you worship the graven image?"
There aren't the same, but they have similarities, and that is what I found in Buddhism. I don't put God in a Box. God can speak however he wishes, and he chose some Buddhist beliefs to speak to me, and none of the contradicted what the Gospel said.
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allhart
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Because they have rights of human beings in a different stage in there progression. They have the right to life. Just like you. No one cares one way or the other about sperm or eggs, but why does everyone care about the fertilized, even the scientists. They are "human" chromosomes, unique human DNA, one of a kind. What clarify s you a as an ever changing (staging) human being. A HUMAN BEING! right!
Lets say you murder some one and you get caught 10 yrs. later and your defense is, I'm not the same person lol. You are the same unique person, just in a different stage of life. right!
Lets ask this question. Lets say you have an 18 month old baby and you leave it home to go on a vacation. When you get back your arrested for baby abandonment, maybe even man slaughter. Why? Because the baby has the right to your care, nurturing etc, so does the baby in the womb...... Baby in the womb is God at work, do not disturb
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Zebra1552
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I heard this verse referenced on CSI in response to antiabortion arguments, and I've since wanted to see how people react to it.Because they have rights of human beings in a different stage in there progression. They have the right to life. Just like you. No one cares one way or the other about sperm or eggs, but why does everyone care about the fertilized, even the scientists. They are "human" chromosomes, unique human DNA, one of a kind. What clarify s you a as an ever changing (staging) human being. A HUMAN BEING! right!
Lets say you murder some one and you get caught 10 yrs. later and your defense is, I'm not the same person lol. You are the same unique person, just in a different stage of life. right!
Lets ask this question. Lets say you have an 18 month old baby and you leave it home to go on a vacation. When you get back your arrested for baby abandonment, maybe even man slaughter. Why? Because the baby has the right to your care, nurturing etc, so does the baby in the womb...... Baby in the womb is God at work, do not disturb
Lev 17:11 'For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.'
Lev 17:12 "Therefore I said to the sons of Israel, 'No person among you may eat blood, nor may any alien who sojourns among you eat blood.'
Lev 17:13 "So when any man from the sons of Israel, or from the aliens who sojourn among them, in hunting catches a beast or a bird which may be eaten, he shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth.
Lev 17:14 "For as for the life of all flesh, its blood is identified with its life. Therefore I said to the sons of Israel, 'You are not to eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood; whoever eats it shall be cut off.'
What do you do with this?
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brightmorningstar
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To Beanieboy,
There are some similar views but I don’t see how that makes Buddhists Christians. I am not sure what your point is.
So do you think it is just about the message? I know Jesus said to have faith in Him.
But if one is a Christian one believes Jesus is the truth the way and the life and no-one come to the Father God except through Him, Buddhists don’t believe that so how could one be Buddhist and Christian? That’s not fair or representative of Buddhism or Christianity.
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lux et lex
light and law
Because they have rights of human beings in a different stage in there progression. They have the right to life. Just like you. No one cares one way or the other about sperm or eggs, but why does everyone care about the fertilized, even the scientists. They are "human" chromosomes, unique human DNA, one of a kind. What clarify s you a as an ever changing (staging) human being. A HUMAN BEING! right!
Lets say you murder some one and you get caught 10 yrs. later and your defense is, I'm not the same person lol. You are the same unique person, just in a different stage of life. right!
Lets ask this question. Lets say you have an 18 month old baby and you leave it home to go on a vacation. When you get back your arrested for baby abandonment, maybe even man slaughter. Why? Because the baby has the right to your care, nurturing etc, so does the baby in the womb...... Baby in the womb is God at work, do not disturb
So if fetuses have human rights, then clearly they are recognized as persons? Why wasn't I born at age 9 months? I should be 25 by now under that reasoning and I'd really like to get a lower rate when I rent a car...
But seriously...no human rights are extended to fetuses because where they have human DNA they are not persons until they are born. But this isn't an abortion debate, just a clarification.
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I would say that puts black pudding right off the list of edible foods. Otherwise I don't understand what you think drinking blood has to do with abortion?
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allhart
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What do you mean by that, and can you clear this up for me? What defines you as a human, and what defines you as a human BEING? If you are nothing but human body parts, as when you are under anesthesia, what right do you have to your body? Are you not a still human being? Your former statement was only a matter of your opinion, doesn't mean it's true.......:/So if fetuses have human rights, then clearly they are recognized as persons? Why wasn't I born at age 9 months? I should be 25 by now under that reasoning and I'd really like to get a lower rate when I rent a car...
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I agree. I'm not saying that Buddhist are Christians, nor that Christians are Buddhists.
I am saying that Buddhist Christians exist. One can be Buddhist AND Christian. I practice Buddhist practices. For example, I try to stay mindful of the present. I spend times in meditation, quieting my mind and clearing it of chatter. I know that in helping others, I create a better world, and that comes back to me in ways that I am probably unaware off. Christ said to keep casting your bread upon the water, and it will come back to you threefold.
What thing that I learned, a valuable lesson, is the order of making my life pure. Because Christianity focuses so much on sin, it starts with the action. Word come in second in seriousness, and thought last, despite what the Gospel says: so he thinks with his heart, so he does. If we wish that our neighbor was dead or wished we could kill them, we are guilty of murder already, but few see it that way.
Buddhism teaches one to focus on the thought first. That seems strange, but our thoughts motivate our words, and are words lead to deed. If we cut the hatred or mean-spirited thought in the mind, it cuts off the word, and the deed. If we focus on being more loving by meditating on love, it will carry over to our words and actions and treatment of others.
Buddhism teaches to honor all living things. It taught me to really love my neighbor as myself, and really think about what that means.
Because I have faith in Jesus, I am a Christian.
Because I follow many of the practices and respect the beliefs, I am kind of a Zen Buddhist. A Catholic friend of mine followed Zen Buddhism, and said, "Following Zen Buddhism is much more challenging, much for difficult, that Catholicism ever was for me. Catholicism was reactionary in my experience, where I would act in selfishness and harm another, and after doing it, I would just ask for forgiveness, and it would be pardoned for me to do things again, and ask for forgiveness the next Sunday. Zen Buddhism ask me to really search my heart. Who am I angry with? Who has hurt me that I haven't forgiven? Who do I hate? Who do I dislike? Who do I hurt with my actions? And the source is the brain. So, I have to search my thoughts, be honest with myself, and then work on it from the thought first. Being pure of thought is much harder than it seems. You can't pat yourself on the back for not acting on it. You have to confront it, and dismiss it, and replace it with love and mercy."
You do in Christianity, but today, it is easier to no look your sins, but point to those of another. Like the Pharisee and the Tax Collect, is quite easy to walk in to the church, to thank him for making you so holy, and not like those "sinners" over there.
Christianity should make you inspired to act like Jesus in his kindness, and humility, in his forgiveness of sins for all, for his defense of using the law as guidance, and not serving the Law itself.
This is how I interpret "I am the life, the way, and the truth. No one comes to the Father but by me."
Context:
5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
8Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."
9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
My interpretation: No one comes to the Father except by living in Christ. What Christ did not say, was "You must repent, and me into your heart to be your Personal Lord and Saviour (TM), pending on my upcoming crucifxion and resurrection. " No, he said I am the Way. Jesus wasn't dead. He was living He said that he was the Light. His love showed them how to live. 1 John 4:7-8 saying that if you don't love, you don't know God - even if you think you are a Christian. God is love, so if you don't have love, you don't have God.
Jesus is the Way. He ate with the sinners, and humbled himself. He gave more than he was asked for. He comforted those in need. He accepted people where they were now, and his love changed them. He humbled himself before man, even asking to be baptized. He asked to wash another's feet, and did this to teach man what God wants.
And Jesus is the Truth. Jesus' focus on love is the Truth. 1 Corinthians says that if you sing a beautiful song to God, if you don't love, you nothing more than a clanging gong. If you can perform amazing miracles in God's name, but don't have love, you have nothing. You are nothing, because love is the most important thing that Christ and the NT talk about. It's repeated over and over, and stressed for it's importance.
Does one have to be Christian to be saved?
I am Lutheran. My parents were Lutheran. My grandparents were Lutheran, and my ancestors came from Norway, a pretty Protestant country.
So, did I choose Christianity, or even Lutheranism?
I kind of found me. It was something my parents instilled in me.
But I have met some Buddhists, some Hindi, some Muslims, that have demonstrated the love in their heart, and the devotion to their deities.
The atheist, for example, will do good, not as "storing up for a later reward, but for it's own sake, which is what Christians should be doing. We should be known for our love, according to Jesus. If I were born in India, I would probably be Hindi. The Christian philosophy sometimes believes that when you are loving on earth, you are expecting a spiritual paycheck. Others will say, "You can't earn your way into heaven", and unfortunately, will then give them an excuse to not do any acts of kindness, because you don't earn your way in, and you are in. So, now you can sit back and wait to die.
So, I image God saying to me, "Craig, I am going to put in charge of who gets in, and who gets turned way." If I were able to see the love, I would welcome them in gladly. However, if the person did not have love, I would send them to hell only to purify themselves. Then, with all of that burned off, they will come in easily
Now, if I, a man, could be that merciful, that kind, that welcoming, how much more would God's surpass me?
That is why I believe that everyone, in this life or the afterlife, will come back to God, and we will be one again
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allhart
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The question should be asked is your God a personal God or impersonal God? But God can't be both..... Classifying the contrasts between Hinduism, Buddhism and God, Judea and Muslim.....
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brightmorningstar
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To beanieboy,
Sure you talk about love but as we have discussed before your idea of love and mine aren’t the same.
Sorry but it doesn’t make sense, if a Buddhist is also a Christian how are they not as a Buddhist, be a Christian? Your logic seems to be telling me they are and they aren’t at the same time.
But that sounds like Buddhism to me, when I meditate as a Christian I meditate on God and expect the Holy Spirit present and to hear from God.
That means little to me as Christianity doesn’t focus on sin its focuses on life in repentance and forgiveness of sin. Sin is just the first step to life, sure sadly some Christians never get past the first step.
I have faith in Jesus Christ so I don’t need to pay any attention to Buddhist practices.
Again you cite what He didn’t say. But Jesus did say repent and he did say He is the truth the life and the way which your statement to me seems to contradict.
Sure you talk about love but as we have discussed before your idea of love and mine aren’t the same.
But as Jesus says without Him one can do nothing.
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Zebra1552
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Okay, really, read the verse. It says the life is in the blood. Gets a bit problematic for those who say life begins at conception if taken literally.
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Dalexsi
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It seems like the discussion has moved on but I just wanted to say how touched and encouraged I was by the original post. It was a very beautiful explanation of God's love and grace for ALL of us. I have had someone question whether or not I was really saved as I had walked away from God for a time, but no one knows what is in another's heart or what the future holds for that person. I was also encouraged by how the OP said that he was a better Christian today than 5 years ago. I hope that I can say the same 5 years from now, and to me that doesn't mean that I sin any less but it means that I have more love and compassion in my heart for others than I do now.
I'm sure that some "True Christians" would call me a heretic or question whether or not I'm a believer but that doesn't matter to me as I know my standing with God. I'm just thankful that God's expression of love through us can take many forms and we don't all have to march lock step with each other. My two cents.
I'm sure that some "True Christians" would call me a heretic or question whether or not I'm a believer but that doesn't matter to me as I know my standing with God. I'm just thankful that God's expression of love through us can take many forms and we don't all have to march lock step with each other. My two cents.
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brightmorningstar
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To Dalexsi,
I thought we had ended up disputing the OP. Its ok making generalised statements but I am sure some Nazi's did what they did for the love of the Fatherland. Basing our views on love is all very well if we have the same understanding of love. God is love so 'gay christian' would be an oxymoron as God's love is that Christ died to reconcile us back to God and give us an identity in Christ and not in our sinful desires.
I thought we had ended up disputing the OP. Its ok making generalised statements but I am sure some Nazi's did what they did for the love of the Fatherland. Basing our views on love is all very well if we have the same understanding of love. God is love so 'gay christian' would be an oxymoron as God's love is that Christ died to reconcile us back to God and give us an identity in Christ and not in our sinful desires.
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