Is it getting easier to get to Heaven?

[Anthony]

When I study the Bible, I think about God's original covenant He, made with the Jews. The New covenant makes things a whole lot easier. After the Church Age, people will be given stronger signs, in order to recognized God. Some may argue it won't be easier, but I would argue it will be different.

When I read Matthew 20:1-16 in the parable of "The Workers Paid Equally", I can't help relating it to different groups of workers and the deals, the Landowner made which each group who came throughout the day. They were all paid the same reward, but their arrangement, i.e. what was required of them, was different depending on what hour of the day they approach the Landowner. 

While the reward was the same for all, the arrangements were not.



 

 

[ZiSunka]

This is a story about how it doesn't matter if you come to Him as a child or as an elderly person, nor does it matter "how hard" you work for Him, eveyone in the end will get the pay He promised.

In other words, it isn't by working that you earn His favor, it is by responding affirmatively to His call to be on His team.

He told this story to keep the Jews from thinking that they were more entitled to salvation than the heathen because they had been working longer for God.

 

[Anthony]

Would you say the Old Covenant was easier or harder than the New Covenant? It was a whole lot harder in the Old Testament than it is now. How many of us could have survive the Old Testament requirement? While Gentiles can be saved now, What about the Gentiles during the Old Testament times?

Remember God almost killed Moses, over the rules

EX 4:24-26
At a lodging place on the way, the LORD met Moses and was about to kill him. But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son's foreskin and touched Moses' feet with it. "Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me," she said. So the LORD let him alone. (At that time she said "bridegroom of blood," referring to circumcision.)

 

 

 

[ZiSunka]

the New Covenant, by far. It's much easier to follow a list of "do's" and "don't's" than it is to culitivate a relationship with the living God and behave the way he taught in the sermon on the mount. Love your neighbor?! Eeks! Can't I just slaughter a lamb?

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by lambslove
the New Covenant, by far. It's much easier to follow a list of "do's" and "don't's" than it is to culitivate a relationship with the living God and behave the way he taught in the sermon on the mount. Love your neighbor?! Eeks! Can't I just slaughter a lamb?

So the New Covenant is Harder? It seems from your statement the a list of do's and don't; i.e. The Old Testament is easier? It has been pointed out many times the Law was impossible to follow, because it is an all or nothing proposition. That is why we need a Savior, the salvation by rule following approach is not possible.

My point is that it is easier now for us to obtain salvation, then those poor folks in the Old Testament. At least the Jews had a chance, the Gentiles were out of the equation.

 

 

 

 

 

[ZiSunka]

But it's incredibly difficult for most people to admit that they can't save themselves and submit themselves to God. They want to try to be good enough so they can feel good about what they've done.

Accepting salvation through faith alone means that you have to admit that you aren't good enough, won't ever be good enough. Only the folks who can take an honest look at themselves and what big screw-ups they are can appreciate salvation as a gift from God.

 

[Anthony]

Your general comments are true, but the issue that remains is:


1) It is easier for a person today then someone who live during the Old Testament years.


2) God may make it easier in the future. He did it before, and if you study Revelation ( A whole other topic, not for here ) there will be other opportunities for those who still don't get it.

 

[ZiSunka]

Even during OT days, salvation was through faith, and not through the observation of the law. Abraham believed God and God accounted it to him as righteousness. It was faith that saved Abraham, not the practice of the Law. The Law wasn't handed down until hundreds of years after Abraham died. And, God declared him righteous before he was even circumcised. So the Law had nothing to do with it.

The purpose of the Law was to show people why they needed to be saved, not to save them.

 

[ZiSunka]

Romans 3:9Faith was credited to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it credited--while he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while he was circumcised, but uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while still uncircumcised. This was to make him the father of all who believe but are not circumcised, so that righteousness may be credited to them also...13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would inherit the world was not through the law, but through the righteousness that comes by faith....20 He did not waver in unbelief at God's promise, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21 because he was fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 Therefore, it was credited to him for righteousness.

 

[Anthony]

OK

Let me put it this way; It is a lot less complicated to figure out today. We have more to work with then those folks in the Old Testament did.

And like I pointed out several posts back, God almost killed Moses over not following the rules. Abraham may not have had to deal with the rules , but a whole lot of Jews did.

We are very Blessed to be given the requirements for salvation spelled out today. We are fortunately to have Bibles and to be able to read them ourselves. Not so for the Gentiles during the OT years.

 

[ZiSunka]

How can it get any less complicated that being justified by faith alone?

God almost killed Moses because he was getting too big for his britches. He thought he didn't need God anymore, that the miracles were being done by his own power, and not the power given to him by God. It wasn't that he wasn't following the rules, it was that he thought he could do it on his own, without God. Just like all those people who are trying to get into heaven on their own merits, without faith in God.

 

[ZiSunka]

As for the Gentiles during OT times, Paul has this to say:

"17 This Good News tells us how God makes us right in his sight. This is accomplished from start to finish by faith. As the Scriptures say, "It is through faith that a righteous person has life." F5 18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves. 19 For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. 20 From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God. but...22 Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead. 23 And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people, or birds and animals and snakes. 24 So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. 25 Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. "

Salvation by faith was availible to the Gentiles even though they didn't have the law, because they had seen God revealed in the glories of nature. Yet many of them chose to worship created things rather than the Creator, putting their faith in what they knew to be a lie. That's why they did not receive salvation--they refused to have faith!

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by lambslove
God almost killed Moses because he was getting too big for his britches. He thought he didn't need God anymore, that the miracles were being done by his own power, and not the power given to him by God. It wasn't that he wasn't following the rules, it was that he thought he could do it on his own, without God. Just like all those people who are trying to get into heaven on their own merits, without faith in God.

Offtopic Comment:

The verse in EX 4:24-26, occurs before, any miracles were performed by God through Moses. He hadn't had the chance to get to big for his britches. If he did, that would come later, and in fact does occurs later.

 

 

[ZiSunka]

Ah! Okay. I was thinking of another incident.

The law had not been handed down yet, so how could God desire to kill Moses for not obeying the Law?

What else do you think might have been at work in God's mind? Is there another explanation involving Moses's disobedience and his faith?

 

[Anthony]

LambLove

That verse EX 4:24-26 is a sticky one, which requires more thought and prayer

 

PS- Also check out my thread on Abraham and Sarah regarding faith issues I would be interested in your thoughts and comments.

 

[ZiSunka]

I was asking you the question. I wanted you to think about what you were asking. I already have an answer, and I want you to tell me what you think it's about first.

 

[Anthony]

I hear you, I don't have a ready answer It needs more thought and prayer on my part.

 

[ZiSunka]

Ah! I get it now. Let me know when you are ready.

Remember, we know that salvation is through faith alone...so this must have something to say about Moses's faith...

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by lambslove
The law had not been handed down yet, so how could God desire to kill Moses for not obeying the Law? What else do you think might have been at work in God's mind? Is there another explanation involving Moses's disobedience and his faith?

All that had been commanded up to that point in time was what God told Abraham in Genesis"

GE 17:9-14
Then God said to Abraham, "As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep:Every male among you shall be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner--those who are not your offspring. Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant."

God could have and would have Killed Moses or any other person who didn't follow His Plan, or in this case was doing his work without being part of the covenant. In order for Moses to carry out God's wishes, he had to get with the program, and get on the Jewish Team, he couldn't play without a jersey. His salvation is not in question, only his life on earth.

 

 

 

[ZiSunka]

But what caused Moses to not circumcise his sons? What do you think was going on inside of Moses's heart that made him decide NOT to circumcise them? Why did his sife have to circumcise them?