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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
is it ever permissible to lie?
- Thread starter EAGonzalez
- Start date
Or Moses' mother hiding her child in a basket to protect him from getting killed.
The Bible says not to be deceitful, and not to bear false witness. If you lie about a legal situation, the innocent suffers and the criminal goes free.
There are many situations where you can just stay quiet or change the subject. You are not obligated to tell everyone everything. It is not always their business to know.
If you want to protect someone with a lie, think about whether it is really helping them in the long run.
The Bible says not to be deceitful, and not to bear false witness. If you lie about a legal situation, the innocent suffers and the criminal goes free.
There are many situations where you can just stay quiet or change the subject. You are not obligated to tell everyone everything. It is not always their business to know.
If you want to protect someone with a lie, think about whether it is really helping them in the long run.
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TravisD
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I agree with heron about staying quiet rather than lying when possible and thinking about the other person. Matthew 7:12... "do to others as you would have them do to you".
Peace
Peace
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Peripatetic
Restless mind, peaceful soul.
Agreed. Way too often I hear parents deceive their children under the guise of being supportive or "in their best interest". I personally try to never do this. If a child asks if a sick relative will get better, many parents will say, "yes honey, I promise he/she will." What if that person dies? You just broke a promise to your kids and how much will they trust your future promises? I think sometimes these are just tactics to avoid tough conversations.
White lies to make someone feel better are annoying too. Like when a parent throws away a toy when it gets ratty, but tells the child some story about giving it to the poor. We've always been truthful with our kids. As others have said, we sometimes leave out details, explain it in a way that they can understand, or even tell them they don't need to know. But what we do tell them is always based in truth. Not once have I regretted that and wished that I'd spun a tale.
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Peripatetic
Restless mind, peaceful soul.
And while I'm ranting about lying to kids... 
One other BIG pet peeve of mine are idle threats. It drives me nuts when I've heard parents saying, "if you do that one more time, we're leaving." Kid does it again? Yep, still there. "Seriously! I mean it this time. Don't do that again, or we're walking right out of here." You know the rest. Talk about learned behavior.
I know there were a few times that we made a statement like that and ended up having to live up to our word (sometimes much to our own disappointment when we had to miss out on something fun).
One other BIG pet peeve of mine are idle threats. It drives me nuts when I've heard parents saying, "if you do that one more time, we're leaving." Kid does it again? Yep, still there. "Seriously! I mean it this time. Don't do that again, or we're walking right out of here." You know the rest. Talk about learned behavior.I know there were a few times that we made a statement like that and ended up having to live up to our word (sometimes much to our own disappointment when we had to miss out on something fun).
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heymikey80
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur
If you include the forgiveness of God, it's always permissible to lie.
If you don't include the forgiveness of God, it's never permissible to lie.
"Everything is permissible -- but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible -- but not everything is constructive." 1 Co 10:23
With the existence of sin in the world, it can be important to lie to avoid sin from multiplying. But it is always damaging. So it should be for a strong redemptive purpose, one that obliterates any and every possibility of gain on your part. The lie needs to support the truth against all evil that does result from it, as well as against the evil that would result from retelling the truth.
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sbbqb7n16
Veteran - Blue Bible Dude
And Jesus had this to say (to the Pharisees):
44. "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.45. "But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.
John 8:44-45
and about Jesus:
9. His grave was assigned with wicked men,
Yet He was with a rich man in His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.
Isaiah 53:9
So Jesus doesn't lie, and the devil does. Now's a great time for a good old fashioned WWJD?
He wouldn't lie. So neither should you.
44. "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.45. "But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.
John 8:44-45
and about Jesus:
9. His grave was assigned with wicked men,
Yet He was with a rich man in His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.
Isaiah 53:9
So Jesus doesn't lie, and the devil does. Now's a great time for a good old fashioned WWJD?
He wouldn't lie. So neither should you.
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Sketcher
Born Imperishable
The absolute, only situation in which it could be conceivably ethical is one like the following, in Exodus 1:15-21:
Another example of this is in WWII, the Ten Booms, a Christian family, made a secret compartment for Jews in their home, as part of a stop on an "underground railroad" to save them from the death camps. You can read about that in "The Hiding Place," a true story by one of the daughters, who went on to speak in many churches internationally after the war, telling her story.
Short of that, you do not lie. Period.
The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shiphrah and Puah, "When you help the Hebrew women in childbirth and observe them on the delivery stool, if it is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live." The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live. Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and asked them, "Why have you done this? Why have you let the boys live?"
The midwives answered Pharaoh, "Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive."
So God was kind to the midwives and the people increased and became even more numerous. And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own.
The midwives answered Pharaoh, "Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive."
So God was kind to the midwives and the people increased and became even more numerous. And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own.
Another example of this is in WWII, the Ten Booms, a Christian family, made a secret compartment for Jews in their home, as part of a stop on an "underground railroad" to save them from the death camps. You can read about that in "The Hiding Place," a true story by one of the daughters, who went on to speak in many churches internationally after the war, telling her story.
Short of that, you do not lie. Period.
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According to Ten commandments, we should not lie and it is also a sin.
As a human is very difficult to be truthful in all situations. We have submit the situation to Jesus in prayer and ask Him that a situation should not occur to lie.
Suppose if you lie then ask Jesus for forgive it. Our lovable Jesus surely forgive it.
As a human is very difficult to be truthful in all situations. We have submit the situation to Jesus in prayer and ask Him that a situation should not occur to lie.
Suppose if you lie then ask Jesus for forgive it. Our lovable Jesus surely forgive it.
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I agree! May your yes be yes, and your no be no.And while I'm ranting about lying to kids...One other BIG pet peeve of mine are idle threats. It drives me nuts when I've heard parents saying....
De 5:20 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
This is more specific than lying, but we make up a general rule because it seems to make sense, and is great for raising people up in honesty. But if you compare this commandment against Ten Boom or Anne Frank's or the Egyptian midwives' situations, they would not be imposing false accusations (bearing false witness against) when lying. They are protecting rather than incriminating.
This could make it sound like I condone lying, but it is just a clarification for those times when lying seems less harmful than open honesty.
We all have to guard ourselves, though... so easy to rationalize for convenience. I compare this to martyrs, who proudly state their beliefs and are willing to take the consequences. Jesus, Stephen, Joan of Arc. A baby martyred for being a baby does not make a positive impact.
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It's situational. Just like killing. This question can't be answered by a simple yes or no.
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