Is it enought to just except Christ into your heart??

[AllTalkNoAction]

Is it enough to just pray a prayer excepting Christ into your heart to obtain the Holy Spirit? . . . Acts Chapter 8 Verses 12-17 talks about how the people of Samaria were taught Christ by Philip, then they believed in Christ, and were then even baptized in his name and yet the Holy Ghost had not fallen on them until Peter and John came and laid hands on them. Please let me know what you guys think of this scripture.

The apostles never told anyone that they had received or would receive the Holy Spirit by praying a prayer!

They did pray with some people but when they spoke in tongues it was said that they had just received the Holy Spirit.

In Acts 8 we see that it was known that believers had NOT received the Spirit, even though they had been baptised unto Jesus etc.

The way they knew is already given in Acts 2 where the same people - Philip, Peter & John receive the same Holy Spirit and get understanding that the experience is the same for all.
No-one ever suggests it would or should be any different then, or now.

 

[revrobor]

Well do you recognize Jesus Christ as the Son of God?

Not a requirement for salvation.

 

[revrobor]

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Seems pretty clear to me.

This is not a requirement for salvation but a proof verse that the person is saved (has repented and chosen to follow God) and has learned who Jesus is and what God has done through Him.

 

[revrobor]

There is no Scripture to support the "...ask Jesus into your heart..." idea or most of the other "you must believe this in order to be saved" ideas. These ideas were made requirements and doctrine by the heirarchy of religious institutions. John 3:16 makes it clear that all one needs to do to be "saved" is repent (turn from you sinful ways) and choose to follow God. They are then saved by the shed blood of Jesus. No "asking Jesus into your heart", no "believing Jesus is the Son of God", no baptism, etc., etc. Just choosing to follow God's plan for your life.

" For God loved the world so much that He gave His only Son that anyone who believes in (clings to or follows) Him (GOD) should not perish but have everlasting life."

 

[pdfiddler]

That's how it starts and our journey is just different levels of excepting him.
That's called growth.(from glory to glory).

 

[IisJustMe]

There is no Scripture to support the "...ask Jesus into your heart..." idea or most of the other "you must believe this in order to be saved" ideas. These ideas were made requirements and doctrine by the heirarchy of religious institutions.

Romans 10:8-10, NASB
But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

I suppose you will read that and refuse to amend you comment above, but you should consider it.

John 3:16 makes it clear that all one needs to do to be "saved" is repent (turn from you sinful ways) and choose to follow God. They are then saved by the shed blood of Jesus. No "asking Jesus into your heart", no "believing Jesus is the Son of God", no baptism, etc., etc. Just choosing to follow God's plan for your life.

" For God loved the world so much that He gave His only Son that anyone who believes in (clings to or follows) Him (GOD) should not perish but have everlasting life."

To repent, one has to communicate to God an agreement with Him that there is a change of mind. How do we communicate to God expect through prayer? The word for "repent" in the Greek is metanoeo which means exactly that --

Thayer and Smith's
to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

That requires communication, and communication with God is prayer. Just because the Word doesn't say "Pray this" doesn't mean prayer is not required. No, there is no so-called "sinner's prayer," but sinners need to pray to receive Christ.

 

[nzguy]

This is going to go round and round and round and round. Once saved always saved.. Arminianism and Calvinism.. all that.. too many diff view points.

I will just say that have a look at all the scriptue I posted up earlier.

And finally that asking Jesus into your life may not be expressly said in teh bible.. but verses like-- whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.. and Romans chapter 10.. are pretty much the same thing.

the word 'believe' in Greek.. with all the verses about believing and then getting eternal life.. salvation.. in about entrusting your salvation with Jesus..

G4100
πιστεύω
pisteuō
pist-yoo'-o
From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

This isn't a continuous action.. it is entrusting your salvation with Jesus, who responds by saying I will leave you nor forsake.. and seals you with the guarantee of the Holy Spirit.

Word out.

 

[pdfiddler]

"It Is Finished"

 

[revrobor]

I suppose you will read that and refuse to amend you comment above, but you should consider it.To repent, one has to communicate to God an agreement with Him that there is a change of mind. How do we communicate to God expect through prayer? The word for "repent" in the Greek is metanoeo which means exactly that -- That requires communication, and communication with God is prayer. Just because the Word doesn't say "Pray this" doesn't mean prayer is not required. No, there is no so-called "sinner's prayer," but sinners need to pray to receive Christ.

There is no need to amend my comment because we are talking about two different things. I am talking about what a person needs to do to be granted salvation. According to The Strongest Exhaustive Concordance of the NIV "Repent" (metanoeo) means "to change any or all of the elements composing one's life, attitude, thoughts, behaviors concerning the demands of God for right living". Paraphrased "turn from your sinful ways" the requirement of John 3:16. The verse you quote speaks of one who has been taught who Jesus is and what God has done through Him and strives to live according to God's teachings. The belief and confession are what helps one to accomplish this "...right living...".

 

[AllTalkNoAction]

This is going to go round and round . . .
I will just say that have a look at all the scriptue I posted up earlier.

Like other people, you have a scripture that says or doesn't say certain things.

I've been on internet forums for about 10 years now and the only people who change are those that no longer want to go round & round.

They want God to prove himself like the bible describes, not in words but signs, wonders and miracles.

Many of the theological arguers don't have and don't want this, as in Jesus' day.

 

[IisJustMe]

There is no need to amend my comment because we are talking about two different things. I am talking about what a person needs to do to be granted salvation. According to The Strongest Exhaustive Concordance of the NIV "Repent" (metanoeo) means "to change any or all of the elements composing one's life, attitude, thoughts, behaviors concerning the demands of God for right living". Paraphrased "turn from your sinful ways" the requirement of John 3:16. The verse you quote speaks of one who has been taught who Jesus is and what God has done through Him and strives to live according to God's teachings. The belief and confession are what helps one to accomplish this "...right living...".

No, sadly, we're talking about the same thing. I say "sadly" because what you just described leaves the work of salvation on the person, and we are incapable of doing anything for our salvation. It all comes from outside of us through Christ and the Holy Spirit with the acquiescence of the Father, not from within. Repentance is the work of the Holy Spirit within, and that means that the "about face" isn't possible until salvation has occured. The sinner must simply acknowledge first to himself and then to God that he is a sinner in need of the Savior, then that confession must be acknowledged as a true and faithful confession by the Father Who sends the Holy Spirit to indwell to complete the transaction.The concept that repentance is salvation is a works-based faith and grossly in error. Jesus does not say "Clean yourself up and then I'll accept you," He says, "Come to Me, you who ar heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

 

[Cris413]

No, sadly, we're talking about the same thing. I say "sadly" because what you just described leaves the work of salvation on the person, and we are incapable of doing anything for our salvation. It all comes from outside of us through Christ and the Holy Spirit with the acquiescence of the Father, not from within. Repentance is the work of the Holy Spirit within, and that means that the "about face" isn't possible until salvation has occured. the sinner must simply acknowledge first to himself and then to God that he is a sinner in need of the Savio, then that confession must be acknowledged as a true and faithful confession by the Father Who sends the Holy Spirit to indwell to complete the transaction.The concept that repentance is salvation is a works-based faith and grossly in error. Jesus does not say "Clean yourself up and then I'll accept you," He says, "Come to Me, you who ar heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

I think what we sometimes forget is God's omniscience. It’s not like we stumble or fall in our walk and God is like “Wow…I didn’t see that coming, that poor person will have to resolve that one for themselves through works because I missed that particular sin and forgot to atone for it at the cross…hope they’re up to the challenge!”




We’re currently doing a study through the book of Romans with Chuck Missler who teaches:

The righteousness of God is the theme of the Epistle to the Romans.

Jer 23:5 "Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD,
"That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness;
A King shall reign and prosper,
And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In His days Judah will be saved,
And Israel will dwell safely;
Now this is His name by which He will be called:
THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

He mentions Luther noted this was on the basis of God’s righteousness…not man’s. The only righteousness that counts is one that is given;

Psa 32:1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,
Whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity,
And in whose spirit there is no deceit.


Isa 53:11 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.

It’s the Cross that justifies. Religion doesn’t work; it is simply a person’s attempt to justify himself before God. From Genesis 3:21 on, God covered them…”Without the Law”: -- apart from the Law: - Chuck Missler

Act 10:43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins."

Psa 51:1 Have mercy upon me, O God,
According to Your lovingkindness;
According to the multitude of Your tender mercies,
Blot out my transgressions.
Psa 51:2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,
And cleanse me from my sin.
Psa 51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions,
And my sin is always before me.
Psa 51:4 Against You, You only, have I sinned,
And done this evil in Your sight--
That You may be found just when You speak,
And blameless when You judge.
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
Psa 51:6 Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts,
And in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom.
Psa 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

I think that sometimes we get a little confused where our faith lies. Sometimes I think we consider it lies in our ability to be faithful rather than the faithfulness of God that He is exactly Whom He says He is and has and will do exactly what He says…not according to our righteousness…but according to His.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on allwho believe. For there is no difference;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.



Added thought: In reading through this...Rom 3:26 popped out at me...and I wondered...the one who has faith in Jesus....do some consider this refers to our faith in ourselves that we believe in Christ Jesus...or that we have faith that He is exactly whom He says He is and completed exactly and fully what He came here to do for the propitiation of our sins...ALL of them.

 

[Cris413]

Is it enough to just pray a prayer excepting Christ into your heart to obtain the Holy Spirit? Is baptism just an outward show of your devotion to God or is it a necessary step in the process of becoming a born again Christian? The first step is obviously to believe in Christ other wise why would one get baptized? But what does it mean to believe in someone? Is it enough to just believe that Christ existed or are we to believe in what he brought? He says in the last chapter of Mark “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.” Also, what about the laying on of hands? Is it necessary? Before you respond to this consider the 8th Chapter of Acts where for the people of Samaria it was necessary. Acts Chapter 8 Verses 12-17 talks about how the people of Samaria were taught Christ by Philip, then they believed in Christ, and were then even baptized in his name and yet the Holy Ghost had not fallen on them until Peter and John came and laid hands on them. Please let me know what you guys think of this scripture.

I’m not sure how to answer all of your questions here…I’m simply not knowledgeable enough…however I do consider it’s simply not enough to make a proclamation with our lips and get dunked in water with the understanding Jesus Christ existed and the accounts of His ministry and death are true…

We must believe what Scripture tells us about the character and nature of God is true from Genesis to Revelation. We must believe and have faith in God…in Who He is….in His righteousness…in His truth…in His holiness…in His faithfulness and so on.

We must believe that our God is big enough to do exactly what He said He would do completely and without error and it simply has nothing to do with anything we can or will do.

Again in my study of Romans it was brought to my attention a quote from Socrates to Plato' 500 BC It may be that the Deity can forgive sins, but I do not see how.

Meaning, how can a holy and righteous God forgive sin and remain holy and righteous…the only way was to take it on Himself and to atone for it Himself by His grace and mercy…because there is NOTHING we could ever do ourselves to accomplish and maintain reconciliation and to Holy God.

Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
Rom 10:13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

 

[jeremyloo]

I think what we sometimes forget is God's omniscience. It’s not like we stumble or fall in our walk and God is like “Wow…I didn’t see that coming, that poor person will have to resolve that one for themselves through works because I missed that particular sin and forgot to atone for it at the cross…hope they’re up to the challenge!”




We’re currently doing a study through the book of Romans with Chuck Missler who teaches:

The righteousness of God is the theme of the Epistle to the Romans.

Jer 23:5 "Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD,
"That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness;
A King shall reign and prosper,
And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In His days Judah will be saved,
And Israel will dwell safely;
Now this is His name by which He will be called:
THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

He mentions Luther noted this was on the basis of God’s righteousness…not man’s. The only righteousness that counts is one that is given;

Psa 32:1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,
Whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity,
And in whose spirit there is no deceit.


Isa 53:11 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.

It’s the Cross that justifies. Religion doesn’t work; it is simply a person’s attempt to justify himself before God. From Genesis 3:21 on, God covered them…”Without the Law”: -- apart from the Law: - Chuck Missler

Act 10:43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins."

Psa 51:1 Have mercy upon me, O God,
According to Your lovingkindness;
According to the multitude of Your tender mercies,
Blot out my transgressions.
Psa 51:2 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,
And cleanse me from my sin.
Psa 51:3 For I acknowledge my transgressions,
And my sin is always before me.
Psa 51:4 Against You, You only, have I sinned,
And done this evil in Your sight--
That You may be found just when You speak,
And blameless when You judge.
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
Psa 51:6 Behold, You desire truth in the inward parts,
And in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom.
Psa 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

I think that sometimes we get a little confused where our faith lies. Sometimes I think we consider it lies in our ability to be faithful rather than the faithfulness of God that He is exactly Whom He says He is and has and will do exactly what He says…not according to our righteousness…but according to His.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on allwho believe. For there is no difference;
Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,
Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.



Added thought: In reading through this...Rom 3:26 popped out at me...and I wondered...the one who has faith in Jesus....do some consider this refers to our faith in ourselves that we believe in Christ Jesus...or that we have faith that He is exactly whom He says He is and completed exactly and fully what He came here to do for the propitiation of our sins...ALL of them.

Amen sister,

Rom 5:17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

Before we were Christian, we were "branded" as sinner. Jesus Christ, who commit no sin, in Him was no sin became sin for us at the cross. We, on the other hand, commit no righteousness, in us is no righteousness became righteous through the blood of Jesus.

When we receive Jesus as our Lord, we receive the gift of righteousness. Since it's a gift, we do not have to pay. The price has been paid through Jesus blood. We just need to receive.

Furthermore, we do not receive this gift based on our works nor how much we keep the Law.

Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness

Rom 3:21 - 26

Be Bless,

Jeremy Loo

 

[jeremyloo]

Is it enough to just pray a prayer excepting Christ into your heart to obtain the Holy Spirit? Is baptism just an outward show of your devotion to God or is it a necessary step in the process of becoming a born again Christian? The first step is obviously to believe in Christ other wise why would one get baptized? But what does it mean to believe in someone? Is it enough to just believe that Christ existed or are we to believe in what he brought? He says in the last chapter of Mark “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.” Also, what about the laying on of hands? Is it necessary? Before you respond to this consider the 8th Chapter of Acts where for the people of Samaria it was necessary. Acts Chapter 8 Verses 12-17 talks about how the people of Samaria were taught Christ by Philip, then they believed in Christ, and were then even baptized in his name and yet the Holy Ghost had not fallen on them until Peter and John came and laid hands on them. Please let me know what you guys think of this scripture.

Hi RGray,

There is no hard and fast rule on excepting Christ. It is not difficult for us to receive Jesus as our Lord and Savior, but it cost our Father His Son. To believe is not to know, but to receive by faith. We may know that there is a person called Jesus 2000 years ago, but that do not make us Christian.

Rom 10:13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
Rom 10:15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!"

Before there is NT. The gospel is preached by the disciples through word of month. What is the good news? It's Jesus died for our sin and resurrected for our justification. And that God will not condemn us.

When we believed, we receive the Holy Spirit.

Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Laying on of hand is for the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Normally used for ordaining leaders in the church like Timothy. Or to receive baptism of the Holy Spirit. However, I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit without laying of hand...

Be Bless,

Jeremy Loo

 

[revrobor]

No, sadly, we're talking about the same thing. I say "sadly" because what you just described leaves the work of salvation on the person, and we are incapable of doing anything for our salvation. It all comes from outside of us through Christ and the Holy Spirit with the acquiescence of the Father, not from within. Repentance is the work of the Holy Spirit within, and that means that the "about face" isn't possible until salvation has occured. The sinner must simply acknowledge first to himself and then to God that he is a sinner in need of the Savior, then that confession must be acknowledged as a true and faithful confession by the Father Who sends the Holy Spirit to indwell to complete the transaction.The concept that repentance is salvation is a works-based faith and grossly in error. Jesus does not say "Clean yourself up and then I'll accept you," He says, "Come to Me, you who ar heavy laden, and I will give you rest."

All man does is make the decision to "turn around" and follow God. God does the rest. It is not a works salvation but man simply accepting the free gift God has offered him.

 

[holo]

While I agree completely that there is nothing that we as men can do towards our salvation, I will stand by the fact that the scriptures teach that we as believers have to put our all into living for Christ, we do not just sit back and allow Christ to move our arms or legs, to make us think about certain things while taking our minds off others (remember Paul said that we have to bring every thought captive to obey Christ....2 Corinthians 10).

True, but even our patience and our self-control are fruits of the Spirit!

I don't sit on my butt all day either, but the good things I do are never the result of me trying, or even deciding, to do something good. They are always the result of simply looking on Christ. To be honest, I have my share of self-righteousness like everybody else; I still have a tendency to be "good" in order to get praise from others (including God) or to feel better about myself, or "because I should" - but that's not love and it won't benefit me anything (I still pray that it will benefit others anyway, though).

I find that doing good toward others is more like... some sort of force inside me that... well, animates my behaviour, if you know what I mean. It's not a moral exercise. But yes, the bible has plenty of warnings, like taking our thoughts captive, like you mentioned. But I think that means that we are always at risk of trying to build our own righteousness, or becoming self-sufficient, as it were, in being "good people". It is a fight, a HARD fight, I have to contend for the faith every day! In a way, the more good I do, the harder it is not to get proud and to take credit for it. That's where the battle lies for me, anyway.

'therefore work out your salvation with fear and trembling.'

I think it's the saddest misunderstanding in the world that this admonition means that His grace isn't sufficient, but that we must add to it with our own performance. Most churches seem to believe that on some level. It's really hard to place ALL my trust in HIM, it's really hard to have to lay aside my pride day after day after day. To give up all my religion, all my morality, all my intentions, and honestly say to God that "it's all YOURS, Lord! ALL of it!"

The more I walk with Him, the greater He becomes, and the smaller I get. But even if I fail in all this pretty much ever day, I take comfort in the fact that He will remain faithful even when I am faithless. His grace is sufficient even when I'm being a legalist

I think that we do need to pray for His kingdom to come, in the sense that more people may come to know the LORD. And yes I do believe that we as believers need to ask for forgivness for the sins we commit as believers look at what Paul says in 2 corinthians 7

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong about asking forgiveness, I often do that myself. But I always remind myself that I'm forgiven already! I don't have to ask for Jesus to do something He did before I was born. Remembering that makes me all the more grateful, and it allows me to look even more freely upon Him, and as a result, I become more like Him... grace is such a wonderful concept! Not only does it set you free from guilt and blame, it actually makes you a better person too! And we can't even fathom the depths and lenghts of His grace.

They were sorrowful, and that sorrow lead to repentance, does not repentance involve forgivness and turning form that sin?

That's true.

Finally all Jesus teaching is about the new covenant and how it apply`s to our lives, why would Jesus spend all His ministry teaching about the Old Covenant whan He knew that it was passing away? No what Jesus taught is the new covenant, this is what He was bringing in.

Paul talks about the "will" of Jesus, His testament, and says that it's not effective until its author dies.

I think Jesus taught from, and about, the law, but He also pointed forward to what was to come. He only touched upon it in parables and such, though, because as He said "there is still much I could say, but you won't be able to bear it" - He had to wait for the Spirit to come and reveal these things to us.

Jesus was clear that He was sent only to the jews, but He didn't reject gentiles. In any case, any teaching on how to keep the law, or any instructions on what you must perform to get to heaven, obviously doesn't belong in the new covenant which is based on what HE has already DONE. I think Jesus clarified the purpose of the law, which was to make sin exceedingly sinful and make the whole world stand guilty.

 

[IisJustMe]

All man does is make the decision to "turn around" and follow God. God does the rest. It is not a works salvation but man simply accepting the free gift God has offered him.

That's salvation, not repentance. Repentance cannot be done until the Holy Spirit indwells. All man is capable of doing up to the moment of salvation is agreeing with God that he is a sinner, based on the evidence and conviction of the Holy Spirit prior to his confessing that fact to God, and the modicum of faith provided for him to admit that small truth. He does not know the rest of the truth until actually saved, but knows only as much as is needed to pray that confession to the Father for His acceptance. Repentance comes afterwards, because it is not possible "beforewards."

 

[revrobor]

That's salvation, not repentance. Repentance cannot be done until the Holy Spirit indwells. All man is capable of doing up to the moment of salvation is agreeing with God that he is a sinner, based on the evidence and conviction of the Holy Spirit prior to his confessing that fact to God, and the modicum of faith provided for him to admit that small truth. He does not know the rest of the truth until actually saved, but knows only as much as is needed to pray that confession to the Father for His acceptance. Repentance comes afterwards, because it is not possible "beforewards."

I've already posted the definition of repentance. Why in the world you are trying to complicate and confuse the very simple plan of salvation is beyond me. I assume it's something whatever church you belong to is teaching but it certainly is not found in the Bible. If it makes you feel better to come off sounding like some super theologian and that's what you want to believe that's up to you. But I sincerely hope you never approach anyone in need of salvation with that theory. It's just not true and they'd probably walk away shaking their head.

 

[IisJustMe]

I've already posted the definition of repentance. Why in the world you are trying to complicate and confuse the very simple plan of salvation is beyond me.

You're not teaching the "plan of salvation" by posting the definition of metaneo. Repentance comes after salvation and is not part of salvation, but of sanctification. You are the one confusing the issue.

I assume it's something whatever church you belong to is teaching but it certainly is not found in the Bible.

You're the one who cited John 3:16. It says, "whososever believes ..." not "whosoever repents ... " You expose your own flawed theology and accuse me of being the one with the flaw.

And by the way, at least I have a church.