Is it enough to make you stop buying?

[fuzzymel]

Even if you buy from a company that uses slave labour? Its very easy to find out who does and who doesnt.

I think you are making excuses here.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Even if you buy from a company that uses slave labour? Its very easy to find out who does and who doesnt.

I think you are making excuses here.

No, your missing the point. If we were to boycot every single company for the sins they comit behind doors we wouldn't be able to buy anything. Christian groups orgenize against groups who publically endorse sin because they are intentionally attacking the Christian System.

 

[UberLutheran]

Again, Uber, I don't care. If I did that, I could quite possibly starve if the grocery stores started doing that. I buy wherever I can afford or wherever I prefer unless they're directly and physically hurting people and my buying the product will affect and worsen that. I don't see how buying a product from a company who doesn't have discrimination laws will affect that. But say if I buy real diamonds, they force children to dig for those in Third World countries. If I buy one, it's encouraging that behavior for money.

And that's why we get a lot of our produce at farmers' markets.

I do realize that if one lives in downtown New York City or downtown Los Angeles, there may not be a farmers' market and one has to make exceptions.

We also buy Fair Trade coffee (and chocolate), and avoid buying clothing from companies which use child labor.

Our belief is that if we purchase from companies which don't have anti-discrimination laws for gays (or who don't promote Fair Trade products, or employ child labor), then we are saying we support those companies' behaviors and policies.

If it means going without something, or making a substitution -- then we do it.

 

[UberLutheran]

Violence? What are you talking about? There is no company publically supporting violence. Stop with your useless accusations.

Companies: no.

Organizations like the American Family Association, the Army of God, Operation Rescue, the Family Research Council, Stormfront.org (which calls themselves a Christian nationalist group) etc.: yes.

 

[UberLutheran]

Obviously you cannot pick on every single issue you dislike. Just the major one that is affecting our culture during our time.

Homosexuality is the one major issue affecting our culture during our time?

That's good to know.

I guess that means that picayune problems such as homelessness, lack of access to health care, poverty, hunger, lack of potable water, global warming, multi-hundred billion dollar trade deficits, a ten trillion dollar national debt, genocide in the Sudan, Nigeria and Uganda, the resurgence of slavery, child prostitution, AIDS, SARS, Ebola, and avian flu have all been solved!

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

No one is supporting that publically.

So just because no one is saying "hey we support slavery" the issues automatically doesn't exist? That's a cop-out.

And Candide, God didn't call us to starve ourselves or use money to buy pointlessly expensive items. He called us to SAVE PEOPLE. Unless forcing companies not to give to a minority is saving them and no one was informed, there's no reason to not buy from them for organizations they give to. If they're taking away from organizations, or directly or indirectly harming people PHYSICALLY, that's different.

Saying "I'm not buying from them because they give to homosexual organizations" is just another reason I think Christians need to stop focusing on that subject so much. Depriving them of rights THIS way is only going to make them see Christians as bigoted idiots. It's the wrong way.

 

[dpartlow]

No one is supporting that publically.

But it does happen and is just not discussed. Corporate America is guilty of the promotion of sin in many ways - not entirely and not everyone - but it does happen. And when it does it is up to consumers and investors to stop it.

 

[dpartlow]

Ford makes lousy, gas-guzzling cars to begin with, so I wouldn't buy one of their cars.

Given that — I make a point of checking to see if a company who makes something that I want to purchase offers its employees domestic partner benefits and has a non-discrimination policy for gay and lesbian employees before I buy the product.

If the company offers those things, I buy their product.

If the company does NOT offers those things, I buy the product from a competitor which does offer those things.

And this is one of the things that my rather large email list (both gay and straight people, but almost all liberals) shares among ourselves. If a company hurts people, or hurts the environment — then we don't buy from that company.

Note to conservatives who may read this: be sure to visit my CF website and give me a "1" for daring to hold an alternative opinion from yours.

Uberlutheran - I know for a fact you did that to me for opposing you. That is so hypocritical - That's it - you've won - I've had it with this God-forsaken thread.
Note to ChristianForums - you may want to start enforcing the "Christians Only" policy before all the wolves in sheep drive off the Christians and worse yet confuse some of the younger ones into following their heresies. Dust on Feet - Brushed Off.

 

[Candide]

And the USA doesn't support foreign dictators or assassinations publicly, yet we go about implanting dictators and assassinating people.

Of course none of the big companies would support slavery publicly. That's stupid. But that doesn't mean that their fair to their workers in other countries, in fact, most of the time, the opposite is the case.

 

[Candide]

And you guys, really, it is possible to buy things from good, moral, responsible companies. It's not pointlessly expensive, it's giving the producers the money they deserve. I mean, seriously.

And Jesus calls us to love our brothers and sisters. Last I checked, that meant not supporting those that are oppressing others, in any form. Really, I promise, it's possible to not shop at Wal-Mart, Starbucks, and many other horrible organizations, and still have food on your table. It takes a bit more work and creativity, but when it makes the difference between you supporting immoral and hateful activities against your brothers and sisters or not, I think that it is well worth the few extra dollars and hours.

 

[ReformedChapin]

And the USA doesn't support foreign dictators or assassinations publicly, yet we go about implanting dictators and assassinating people.

Of course none of the big companies would support slavery publicly. That's stupid. But that doesn't mean that their fair to their workers in other countries, in fact, most of the time, the opposite is the case.

That also doesn't mean Christians should boycot companies because companies rip people off. Christians should only get involved in scriptural manners..

 

[ReformedChapin]

So just because no one is saying "hey we support slavery" the issues automatically doesn't exist? That's a cop-out.

And Candide, God didn't call us to starve ourselves or use money to buy pointlessly expensive items. He called us to SAVE PEOPLE. Unless forcing companies not to give to a minority is saving them and no one was informed, there's no reason to not buy from them for organizations they give to. If they're taking away from organizations, or directly or indirectly harming people PHYSICALLY, that's different.

Saying "I'm not buying from them because they give to homosexual organizations" is just another reason I think Christians need to stop focusing on that subject so much. Depriving them of rights THIS way is only going to make them see Christians as bigoted idiots. It's the wrong way.

Prove it exists.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

Prove it exists.

Prove God exists.

What is with you conservatives and proof anyway?

 

[Candide]

That also doesn't mean Christians should boycot companies because companies rip people off. Christians should only get involved in scriptural manners..

So the almost slavery of our brothers and sisters isn't a scriptural matter? The hurting of the environment isn't a scriptural matter? Oppression of millions of people isn't a scriptural matter? The poverty of millions of people isn't s scriptural matter?

And also, I disagree. I think that Christians should be Christians in all that they do, think, and say...not only those things concerning scripture. Indeed, it is a scriptural matter to act like a Christian in everything (yes, everything) that you do!

And, by the way, I never advocated simply boycotting a company because it "rips people off".

 

[ReformedChapin]

Prove God exists.

What is with you conservatives and proof anyway?

Alright I will prove it as soon as you prove to me why I have to prove God's existance in a Christian forum.

 

[ReformedChapin]

dupe post

 

[ReformedChapin]

So the almost slavery of our brothers and sisters isn't a scriptural matter? The hurting of the environment isn't a scriptural matter? Oppression of millions of people isn't a scriptural matter? The poverty of millions of people isn't s scriptural matter?

There is no slavery! Show me one company that supports slavery!

And also, I disagree. I think that Christians should be Christians in all that they do, think, and say...not only those things concerning scripture. Indeed, it is a scriptural matter to act like a Christian in everything (yes, everything) that you do!

Good for you, do it. Since gathering support from a wide group is extremely hard.

And, by the way, I never advocated simply boycotting a company because it "rips people off".

That's nice, try the real world.

 

[Candide]

There is no slavery! Show me one company that supports slavery!

I said almost slavery. Oh, those people in China who are working for Wal-Mart are getting paid, that's for sure. But they're also forced to pay for small, one-room dorms, whether they live in them or not. And they can't afford to live elsewhere, or buy any other food, because they're not getting paid enough to live in any other circumstances.

That's one example, and there's more.

Also, you failed to address my other points on that list.

Good for you, do it. Since gathering support from a wide group is extremely hard.

That's what I'm trying to do, and that's what this conversation is about, bro. You have to start somewhere...why not start by only supporting companies that have morals? And no, I'm not saying that I'm perfect. I'm saying that I'm doing my best, rather than just saying "oh, it's impossible, so I shouldn't even try".

That's nice, try the real world.

I don't understand what you're saying here...why is this relevant?

 

[ReformedChapin]

There is no slavery! Show me one company that supports slavery!

I said almost slavery. Oh, those people in China who are working for Wal-Mart are getting paid, that's for sure. But they're also forced to pay for small, one-room dorms, whether they live in them or not. And they can't afford to live elsewhere, or buy any other food, because they're not getting paid enough to live in any other circumstances.

If you come up with a feasable plan I'm all for it. The problem is that with the situation in China it's economics. One has a a country with millions of people where the leadership is rich. What exactly do you propose Christians do?

That's one example, and there's more.

Yes, millions of injustices in the world. You forget we live in a fallen world where we can only deal with major issues that deal with doctrine.

Good for you, do it. Since gathering support from a wide group is extremely hard.

That's what I'm trying to do, and that's what this conversation is about, bro. You have to start somewhere...why not start by only supporting companies that have morals? And no, I'm not saying that I'm perfect. I'm saying that I'm doing my best, rather than just saying "oh, it's impossible, so I shouldn't even try".

What you are doing is bring up an irrelevant issue to try to justify a sin. It's impossible (realistically) to help all of the injustices of the world.

 

[Candide]

What exactly do you propose Christians do?

What I've been proposing all along. Not support companies that are putting workers in these conditions. Vote with your dollar.

Yes, millions of injustices in the world. You forget we live in a fallen world where we can only deal with major issues that deal with doctrine.

What? We can only deal with major issues that deal with doctrine? Is that what MLK Jr. was doing? Is that what Mother Theressa was doing? Seriously? Are you suggesting that Jesus just told us to "only deal with issues that concern doctrine. Don't worry about any small things, just the major ones?"

That's not the Jesus I've read.

What you are doing is bring up an irrelevant issue to try to justify a sin. It's impossible (realistically) to help all of the injustices of the world.

I must be daft. What sin am I trying to justify here? Morals? Yes, that's a huge sin. Caring about the welfare of people in China who don't have rights? Yes, that's a huge sin. Trying to help people? Yeah, Jesus never did that.

And please, what irrelevant issue am I bring up? How is anything I've said irrelevant?

And no, it's not impossible. Isn't the whole point of Christianity to change the earth, making disciples of everybody, and advancing the Kingdom of God?