Is it "Christian" to Attack other Faiths?

happyinhisgrace · Feb 2, 2004

Much of what I've seen on this thread is just rehashing of material our critics haven't changed in many years.
It all boils down to a misrepresentation or misunderstanding our what the LDS actually believe.
Why would critics need to come up with new material when the old proves the point just fine? If it aint broke, don't fix it.

God Bless,
Grace

twhite982 · Feb 2, 2004

SiSSYGAL said:
Hi Tom: Nice to have you here posting. I was told by the missionaries that because the Bible is flawed, it was necessary to add the Book of Mormon.
Without the Book of Mormon, the Bible is incomplete. With the Book of Mormon, we have the fullness of the gospel. Also, the Bible has too many things wrong and or missing to be of much use. That is why a great many Mormons prefer the Book of Mormon. Much of the NT is glossed over in seminary class for example. Four books covered in an hour. That sort of thing.

Those missionaries in my view were very ignorant of the purpose of the BofM.
The title page of the BofM has the intended purpose and its not to replace the Bible.

I went through seminary too, but those were during my black sheep days, so since I was forced against my will to go I refused to learn anything and caught up on my sleep I lost from getting up so early.

I don't think your view of seminary glossing over the NT applies to the entire church. There are of course time constraints, but the way I sorta remember the format is the same as sunday school, where, one year is OT, the next is NT, and so forth. As an example we just finished an entire year of study on only the NT. I personally added to this study with more in-depth learning on my own. I love the NT, we have so many things in there that are not found in other LDS scripture. An example would be the gospels, which show in part the life of Christ.

SiSSYGAL said:
About that higher moral code. What is that? I'll ask a question in reverse. I didn't know there was a higher moral code.

"A higher moral code" may not be the best wording.

These are generalities of course and each individual case is different.

Examples,
tithing,
care of our bodies,
dedication to following Christ,
scripture study,
dedication to family,

These are from my perception and I of course have no scientific way to demonstrate this other than what I hear from EV's on the radio (James Dobson, Hank Hanegraaf, Chip Ingram, Chuck Swindall, etc...) counseling to improve in these areas and from what I know of my own church.

It seems that more is "expected" of an LDS'er than someone in mainstream Christianity.

Again these are my perceptions and this is how I'd define higher morals and actually living them.

Tom

twhite982 · Feb 2, 2004

happyinhisgrace said:
Much of what I've seen on this thread is just rehashing of material our critics haven't changed in many years.
It all boils down to a misrepresentation or misunderstanding our what the LDS actually believe.
Why would critics need to come up with new material when the old proves the point just fine? If it aint broke, don't fix it.

God Bless,
Grace

Well Grace,

While not much changes on our level, the scholars however have stopped using much of the old arguements against mormonism just because they've been addressed sufficently by mormon scholars.

While we see so much stuff here like "blood atonement", "men on the moon", "peep stones" and on and on.

These things are sensational and get alot of attention for the flashiness, but I would doubt that the reputable scholars actually debate this stuff the mormon scholars. I'm not talking about Sandra or Gerald Tanner either.

Tom

happyinhisgrace · Feb 2, 2004

twhite982 said:
Well Grace,

While not much changes on our level, the scholars however have stopped using much of the old arguements against mormonism just because they've been addressed sufficently by mormon scholars.

While we see so much stuff here like "blood atonement", "men on the moon", "peep stones" and on and on.

These things are sensational and get alot of attention for the flashiness, but I would doubt that the reputable scholars actually debate this stuff the mormon scholars. I'm not talking about Sandra or Gerald Tanner either.

Tom

Mormons just can't stand those Tanners, I have not met or talked to an lds person in the last , I don't know how long, that can go without metioning the Tanners. I don't know the Tanners personally but I do have friends (in everyday life) that are "real-life" friends with the Tanners and go visit them on vacation and Holidays etc. and I have heard nothing but good about the Tanners from these folks. In fact the only people that seem to have anything bad to say about them are the LDS. Ok, now if you want to talk about Ed Decker in a negetive light, that is a whole different story. I think Ed Decker is all about the sensationalism of things. While he may do what he does from an honest intrest in sharing truth, I think the way he goes about it is a bit over the top.

I think that many of the old arguments used to refute Mormonism are still very valid especially when it comes to comparing it (the LDS teachings) with what the Bible says.

Grace

twhite982 · Feb 2, 2004

happyinhisgrace said:
Mormons just can't stand those Tanners, I have not met or talked to an lds person in the last , I don't know how long, that can go without metioning the Tanners. I don't know the Tanners personally but I do have friends (in everyday life) that are "real-life" friends with the Tanners and go visit them on vacation and Holidays etc. and I have heard nothing but good about the Tanners from these folks. In fact the only people that seem to have anything bad to say about them are the LDS. Ok, now if you want to talk about Ed Decker in a negetive light, that is a whole different story. I think Ed Decker is all about the sensationalism of things. While he may do what he does from an honest intrest in sharing truth, I think the way he goes about it is a bit over the top.

I think that many of the old arguments used to refute Mormonism are still very valid especially when it comes to comparing it (the LDS teachings) with what the Bible says.

Grace

My comments about the Tanners were not meant to slam them in any way. I just would not place them on the same level as the scholars I'm referring to.
(Those specifically trained in the areas of discussion.) The Tanners seem to me to be a "jack of all trades, master of none".

Tom

True Believer · Feb 3, 2004

not important my opinion doesn't count!

Rescued One · Feb 3, 2004

twhite982 said:
"A higher moral code" may not be the best wording.

These are generalities of course and each individual case is different.

Examples,
tithing,
care of our bodies,
dedication to following Christ,
scripture study,
dedication to family,

These are from my perception and I of course have no scientific way to demonstrate this other than what I hear from EV's on the radio (James Dobson, Hank Hanegraaf, Chip Ingram, Chuck Swindall, etc...) counseling to improve in these areas and from what I know of my own church.

It seems that more is "expected" of an LDS'er than someone in mainstream Christianity.

Again these are my perceptions and this is how I'd define higher morals and actually living them.

Tom

More is expected by whom? The Bible clearly lays out what Christian conduct should be. What is expected by God is what is important, not the rules of a church.

Christians are committed to following the Savior, Christians study their Bibles, Christians don't smoke, use drugs or get drunk, Christian dress modestly, Christians are honest, Christians don't commit adultery, Christians love their families, and Christians want to raise their children to love and serve God.

Some Christian even avoid caffeine; of course, that in no way, makes them more moral or holy.

As for counseling to improve, that is biblical. Everyone on earth has room for improvement.

wheelz72vette · Feb 3, 2004

I think that you should not "attack" another faith in a harsh way like saying "oh your wrong you are going to hell!", but in a loving way. That is not to say to tolerate them and let them go on without trying to explain the true way, because Jesus said "beware of false prophets". We are not to let them go on like Gamaliel said, "if this is from god, it will keep on going, but if it is not, it will perish", because of the beware of false prophets thing that jesus said. Try to explain to the other religion the faults and untruths in a kind way.

happyinhisgrace · Feb 3, 2004

GodsWordisTrue said:
More is expected by whom? The Bible clearly lays out what Christian conduct should be. What is expected by God is what is important, not the rules of a church.

Christians are committed to following the Savior, Christians study their Bibles, Christians don't smoke, use drugs or get drunk, Christian dress modestly, Christians are honest, Christians don't commit adultery, Christians love their families, and Christians want to raise their children to love and serve God.

Some Christian even avoid caffeine; of course, that in no way, makes them more moral or holy.

As for counseling to improve, that is biblical. Everyone on earth has room for improvement.

Actually some Christians do smoke. That does not however make them any less of a Christian. On the other stuff I agree. The Bible shows the morals that we should have. Christians love their families, they are taught to read their Bibles, attend church and take care of their bodies. Christians are taught to dress appropriately and be honest in their dealing with their fellow man. The are taught to love their spouse and to be faithful to that spouse. These are all things that Christianity believes, I fail to see how the LDS church "moral values" are superior in any way to Christian values.

God Bless,
Grace

True Believer · Feb 4, 2004

The difference is that the Mormons will not tolerate practicing sin they will remove one who continues to sin. Most Orthodox religions don't seem to care what the breathren do and either ignore what they are doing or condon it !

Rescued One · Feb 4, 2004

happyinhisgrace said:
Actually some Christians do smoke. That does not however make them any less of a Christian. On the other stuff I agree. The Bible shows the morals that we should have. Christians love their families, they are taught to read their Bibles, attend church and take care of their bodies. Christians are taught to dress appropriately and be honest in their dealing with their fellow man. The are taught to love their spouse and to be faithful to that spouse. These are all things that Christianity believes, I fail to see how the LDS church "moral values" are superior in any way to Christian values.

God Bless,
Grace

You're right. Some LDS also smoke. I don't consider a Baptist who smokes non-Christian. I believe the reason so many Christians don't smoke is because it hurts their witness. Smoking doesn't defile them. But most of the Christians I've known don't smoke.

Rescued One · Feb 4, 2004

True Believer said:
The difference is that the Mormons will not tolerate practicing sin they will remove one who continues to sin. Most Orthodox religions don't seem to care what the breathren do and either ignore what they are doing or condon it !

LDS don't ex-communicate those who fail to keep the WoW. Nor do they ex-communicate non-tithers. Most Protestant churches, as far as I know, do have discipline concerning sexual immorality.

AMMON · Feb 4, 2004

GodsWordisTrue said:
Most Protestant churches, as far as I know, do have discipline concerning sexual immorality.

Really? Examples?

happyinhisgrace · Feb 4, 2004

GodsWordisTrue said:
LDS don't ex-communicate those who fail to keep the WoW. Nor do they ex-communicate non-tithers. Most Protestant churches, as far as I know, do have discipline concerning sexual immorality.

A good example of this would be how when it is made known that a member of a church that is in a teaching or "athoritive" type position such as pastor or preacher, they are called by the members of that congergation to repentance and usually taken out of that leadership type position.

The LDS church is not above reproach on this issue either....many a bishop or lds church leader (in one "calling or another") has been found to have commited adultry or sexual abuse of children while holding the position of some kind of leader in their church. This is usually passed off with the explanation of "Heavenly Father doesn't always give people callings to benifit the members of the church but to teach the person with the calling a lesson". I always found that a silly argument, even as an LDS person. As if God would call a man to be a bishop in his one true church, knowing that he was a child molester. Silly reasoning to say the least.

Grace

RufustheRed · Feb 5, 2004

True Believer said:
The difference is that the Mormons will not tolerate practicing sin they will remove one who continues to sin. Most Orthodox religions don't seem to care what the breathren do and either ignore what they are doing or condon it !

I don't know how many churches you have been in, but my church definately excommunicates for adultery and teachings of heresies. They consider re-marriage adultery. No, I wouldn't say the LDS have a leg up on the non-toleration of sin.

Sven

happyinhisgrace · Feb 5, 2004

Sven1967 said:
I don't know how many churches you have been in, but my church definately excommunicates for adultery and teachings of heresies. They consider re-marriage adultery. No, I wouldn't say the LDS have a leg up on the non-toleration of sin.

Sven

Sven, your church considers remarriage to be adultry? What church do you attend if you don't mind telling me.

Grace

AMMON · Feb 5, 2004

Helaman said:
I am new here, but I've quickly noticed that it seems to be open season on so called non-Christian faiths (e.g., Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints). Is such a practice "Christian?"

No. It is not.

jakegroen · Feb 8, 2004

No, but in fact since the very instant christians became a majority they did just that.

Rescued One · Feb 8, 2004

Ammon said:
No. It is not.

Last I heard, when Joseph Smith, Jr. died, he still held that every church except the LDS was wrong.

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)÷and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. from The Pearl of Great Price

Are you saying Joseph Smith wasn't behaving like a Christian when he wrote that?

Serapha · Feb 8, 2004

True Believer said:
The difference is that the Mormons will not tolerate practicing sin they will remove one who continues to sin. Most Orthodox religions don't seem to care what the breathren do and either ignore what they are doing or condon it !

Hi there!

That's interesting because my Bible tells me in the book of John that we walk in the light as we are given the light. If a brother or sister in Christ is on a different level than I am in their Christian journey, then it is not my determination to condemn them out of a congregation.

Every believer continues in transgressions until they are perfected through death. Or has that concept changed? I'm not into progressive revelation, so maybe I missed something that was added to the Bible?

~serapha~

Is it "Christian" to Attack other Faiths?

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