Is it alright to cut myself bad to atone for something?

[Debbi]

Is is wrong for me to cut myself bad to atone for something I've done wrong? I may have a spirit of depression and I want it to go away but nothing helps. If I could cut deep enough, would that atone for me being bad? At my church it is a sin to be depressed. But I picked up wanting to cut to atone at another church. I don't know what God is mad at me about either. Can a christian have a spirit of depression or spirit of fear?

 

[sillyrabbit400]

I am not sure I was wondering the same thing when you find out let me know

 

[pmarquette]

no ....
Look at Isaiah 534.1-3 ; Matthew 8.17 ; 1 Peter 2.24 .... Jesus already shed blood
on your behalf ....

Cutting yourself is a pagan custom .... see :
1Ki 18:28 And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.


Jer 16:6 Both the great and the small shall die in this land: they shall not be buried, neither shall [men] lament for them, nor cut themselves, nor make themselves bald for them:


Jer 41:5 That there came certain from Shechem, from Shiloh, and from Samaria, [even] fourscore men, having their beards shaven, and their clothes rent, and having cut themselves, with offerings and incense in their hand, to bring [them] to the house of the LORD.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Thank you pmarquette.

 

[Follower of Christ too]

Is is wrong for me to cut myself bad to atone for something I've done wrong? I may have a spirit of depression and I want it to go away but nothing helps. If I could cut deep enough, would that atone for me being bad? At my church it is a sin to be depressed. But I picked up wanting to cut to atone at another church. I don't know what God is mad at me about either. Can a christian have a spirit of depression or spirit of fear?

I would like to share with you a little about my son. He used to want to cut himself (or other forms of self abuse) to try and rid himself of depression. None of the things he did ever helped. He went to the doctor and starting on medication. It was a long road getting his medication right and even a longer road to find a diagnosis. All I am saying is sometimes we need help from others...There is a prayer request thread here and you may want to post there. I will also be praying for you. I have seen the torment my son went through..

 

[Droobie]

Is is wrong for me to cut myself bad to atone for something I've done wrong? I may have a spirit of depression and I want it to go away but nothing helps. If I could cut deep enough, would that atone for me being bad? At my church it is a sin to be depressed. But I picked up wanting to cut to atone at another church. I don't know what God is mad at me about either. Can a christian have a spirit of depression or spirit of fear?

Hmmm... so you feel that what Jesus did for you on the cross. The lashings that He too, the piercings, the blood that He shed was not enough?

 

[Anthony]

Is is wrong for me to cut myself bad to atone for something I've done wrong? I may have a spirit of depression and I want it to go away but nothing helps. If I could cut deep enough, would that atone for me being bad? At my church it is a sin to be depressed. But I picked up wanting to cut to atone at another church. I don't know what God is mad at me about either. Can a christian have a spirit of depression or spirit of fear?

A spirit of depression?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Debbi,

A Christian can have any spirit they are willing to feed.

According to scripture it says, "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you".

If you are submitting to God, and resisting the devil he will flee. It's a guarentee. However, if you continue to feed your fear then you will have a spirit of fear. But again, scripture says that God has not given us a spirit of fear but He has given us a Spirit of Love, Power, and a Sound Mind.

So, it's which spirit are you going to feed. . .the one God gives or the one the devil gives?

 

[Andrew]

Trying to cut yourself or beat yourself to "atone" for your sins is simply self-righteousness. You wld be trying to "add to" or "replace" the perfect, finished work of Christ. You are dishonoring the work of Christ, his blood and basically telling Jesus that He did not suffer enough for you.

As long as you've been born-again, all your sins -- past, present, future -- have already been forgiven! God does not remember your sins anymore. If you do sin, you HAVE forgiveness. Simply thank God you are already forgiven and move on!

The more you realise how much Jesus has done for you, the more you realise how much you have been forgiven and how right you are with God, the quicker you will get out of your depression.

I dont know what stupid church told you you must cut yourself but that practise is straight from hell!

 

[P_G]

Let me be very clear on this

A born again, blood bought saint of God cannot be possesed by the devil or of an evil spirit

1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

A Christian may be harrassed by a spirit of depression but cannot be posessed by it. Otherwise that would say that Christ and Satan are of equal authority and the scriptures do not prove this out.

Having said this it does not surprise me that a spirit who is at war with God would want you to do something that is wrong or ungodly. It tempts you to cut yourself just as a spirit of lust will tempt you to view pornography or have an affair.

The result is the same it has convinced you that the grace of Jesus is not sufficiant for you. But that is of course a lie. A lie of the enemy.

Please don't cut yourself. Jesus would say to you this day
"My grace IS sufficiant for you"

Rather let us do this:
I as your brother will pray for you, and perhaps others will also. PRAY FIRST!
Tell that devil to get behind you. Tell him that JESUS paid it all! He said it is finished.

Take authority over this thing in Jesus name.

Hallelujah!

Be Blessed

Pastor George

 

[sandman]

Let me be very clear on this

A born again, blood bought saint of God cannot be possesed by the devil or of an evil spirit

I am sorry for sidetracking the intent of this post...but
I respectfully disagree with you on this…………………

I have heard some say that because your are born again having the spirit of God within one cannot be possessed but, that just is not the case.

I am not going to get into a dossier on this subject but let me provide a scenario to best illustrate my point.



A practicing Christian {born again} for many years looses his job starts to get depressed. Feelings of unworthiness lead him to the bar where he starts drinking.

At first it’s just a couple of social drinks every night, but as the depression starts to root the couple of brews turns into several.

Things progress, or digress as the nature of depression is; the man begins to take on the thoughts of the world…………………

The bar scene continues only now we will add some Stardust into the mix. It’s not every night, but this new friend “Walt” that started coming to the bar has some good stuff and he understands my problems; my wife certainly doesn’t understand, she just keeps after me to find a job…………….hey, I’ve looked there is nothing out there for me.

Then one night in the bar you overhear a conversation from a woman who thinks her husband is having an affair with this woman………….you start to think, there is a few eerie similarities about what this woman is saying….same church you go to, same amount of kids you have, and the husband is a drunk ….can’t be me,………. I am not a drunk….still there has been a few suspicious things going on with your wife …………. .no, she wouldn’t do that…..

But things begin to fester, and doubt begins to set in. You begin to worry and then one night after doing some target practice earlier, you are at the bar. Walt {your new best friend} says “ziggie is in town, and he wants to talk”..so out to car you go to get ripped. …… but tonight is different, tonight your angry, really angry, because your are sure your wife is bopping some dude.

Walt is no help, he’s your friend, and he is sure your wife is having an affair also ….he says …”man you got to do something about this”!!!!

…………………”beam me up Scottie”…………………………..

Now your trashed, and you decide to go home…..the anger is building. You park down the street and go to your trunk for your pistol.

As you walk up to the house you see your wife giving a hug to some dude and then he walks down the sidewalk to his car. Your wife goes inside and you walk up to the car and bam!………you cap the dude……………………
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Anytime someone murders someone, it’s possession pure and simple, Christian or non-Christian. {I am not talking about war and killing that’s different.}



Anyone Christian or non-Christian can open themselves up to any and all types of possession in various different ways. Now the scenario above may be somewhat extreme but it does, and did happen. Up until the point that someone pulls the trigger it could be just heavy spiritual oppression. Although when your dealing in the drug scene, it is more than likely that someone has already opened themselves up.

Devil spirits cannot just possess at random, one must open themselves up for that. The above illustrates just one specific way that can happen; there are as many ways as there is devil spirits.

This is not something to fear, for in putting on the Word we guard against any attempts that the devil tries to work his way into our lives. Anger, fear, depression, etc are all emotions that we have, and it does not mean at all that we are possessed. It takes a combination of things and willfully opening yourself up before the adversary can start to get a foothold

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

God bless

sandman.

 

[P_G]

Devil spirits cannot just possess at random, one must open themselves up for that. The above illustrates just one specific way that can happen; there are as many ways as there is devil spirits.

This is not something to fear, for in putting on the Word we guard against any attempts that the devil tries to work his way into our lives. Anger, fear, depression, etc are all emotions that we have, and it does not mean at all that we are possessed. It takes a combination of things and willfully opening yourself up before the adversary can start to get a foothold

Sandman Beloved brother:

What you say absolutely is so. But it shows the process of discarding ones salvation and piece by piece accepting what the devil says as true.

Devil "You lost your Job go get drunk"

Jesus "I shall supply all your needs through my riches and glory"

Devil "Take this drug - This thing and you will feel better"

Jesus "Blessed is he who endureth till the end all kinds of tribulations"

Devil "Do you know what I heard some one else tell me about your wife?"

Jesus "Before you place your gift at the alter go and make things straight with your brother and then return to give your gift"

Devil "Kill that man you are justified"

El' Ohim "Thou Shalt not kill"


It becomes about who will you follow? This man did not "loose" his salvation he threw it away. He chooses to listen to those who would tell him lies "The Devil is the father of lies"



:topic:



OK back on topic

Actually the whole thing is on topic. Its about do we listen when God speaks? Do we trust in him 100% or are we leaning on our own understanding? In my expereince most Chirstians are more than willing to trust in the Lord when things are good but boy soon as things are bad we start trying our own solutions to things.


The orriginal poster is being reminded of her sin by who? Jesus? Not likely! Once a person is saved the Bible tells us that the Lord casts away the rememberence of that sin as far as the east is from the west.

Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

By the way I am not so sure that one must be possesed to murder. Though we as men see the CRIME of murder as very great and so it is God does not see the SIN of murder as anything different than any other sin:

Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. :o

Just as Jesus was tempted to sin in the desert so are we tempted to sin each and every day. This cutting thing is sin to be sure it is listening to the Devil to be sure. The answer is the same for us - The sword - Gods Holy Word
Prayer - Our direct hotline to him who can and will help us to over come.


PG

 

[Svt4Him]

Is is wrong for me to cut myself bad to atone for something I've done wrong? I may have a spirit of depression and I want it to go away but nothing helps. If I could cut deep enough, would that atone for me being bad? At my church it is a sin to be depressed. But I picked up wanting to cut to atone at another church. I don't know what God is mad at me about either. Can a christian have a spirit of depression or spirit of fear?

Do you need to cut yourself? No. If you do, then you don't understand what Jesus did, or do you think it's good enough for you, and you somehow have to add to it.

Can a christian have a spirit of depression or spirit of fear? Yes.

 

[Anthony]

A Christian may be harrassed by a spirit of depression but cannot be posessed by it.

Where did the concept of demons or spirits of bad feelings come from in the first place? Since when did negative emotions become associated with bad feelings? Are we to be happy 24/7? Are we to blame our negative or sad feelings on demons? Thank God for satan, we have someone to blame just about everything on. No responsiblity for ourselves.:o

 

[ydouxist]

Where did the concept of demons or spirits of bad feelings come from in the first place? Since when did negative emotions become associated with bad feelings? Are we to be happy 24/7? Are we to blame our negative or sad feelings on demons? Thank God for satan, we have someone to blame just about everything on. No responsiblity for ourselves.:o

Deliverance ministry is very real. Sure some have taken it to extremes but, this woman needs deliverance.

Remember,
"Lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil."

 

[P_G]

Where did the concept of demons or spirits of bad feelings come from in the first place? Since when did negative emotions become associated with bad feelings? Are we to be happy 24/7? Are we to blame our negative or sad feelings on demons? Thank God for satan, we have someone to blame just about everything on. No responsiblity for ourselves.:o

I am so glad that you asked that!

Anything that I say I back up with scripture so where did the concept of demons or spirits of bad feelings come from? The Bible. Lets open her up and look shall we?

2 Cor 12

7. To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.
8. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me.
9. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.

We are not sure what Pauls particular "thorn" was but we do know that he had something that constantly bugged him. Some say it was lust but I eshew that because he didn't really from a hermanutical perspective seem to have a problem there. However guilt for his former life of persecuting Christians does come into play since he mentions that "He was greatest among sinners" many times. And from empirical anyalisis of his writings depression may be his yoke as we can see wide variances in his timber when speaking. This subtely indicitive of what they call today "manic depression"

Where does personal responsibility come in?

What did Jesus say?
Luke 9
23. Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.

Also

John 16
33. "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

Yes you have a responsibility to take up that cross that wearies you but you also have the blessing of knowing that you are not alone if you would but ask the Lord to help you. You know basically he does the carrying you just have to humble yourself to ask!

I agree this girl needs some deleiverance.
Did you pray for her? Or were some of us gathering stones?


Blessings

PG

 

[Anthony]

Deliverance ministry is very real. Sure some have taken it to extremes but, this woman needs deliverance.

Remember,
"Lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil."

This woman? Remember she has a name.

Debbi surely needs our prayers and help. As fellow Christians we should suggest she find comfort with other Christians, during this period of depression. Deliverance ministies? are real activity sure, but blaming all our problems and ills on satan is playing right into satan hands. It give satan unwarrented power and strength over you. You are simple turning the keys of the car over to him. She needs support from other Christians.

Lead us not into temptation? Are you suggesting or saying that Debbi was lead, or tempted into become depressed? That depression is actually an evil spirit.

 

[Anthony]

I agree this girl needs some deleiverance.
Did you pray for her? Or were some of us gathering stones?

this girl?

some of us gathering stones?

Who would gather stones to throw at Debbi? Who would think of hurting her even more by casting stones? She needs comfort from the body of Christ. She needs discernment.

 

[Anthony]

I am so glad that you asked that!

2 Cor 12

7. To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me.
8. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me.
9. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.

We are not sure what Pauls particular "thorn" was but we do know that he had something that constantly bugged him. Some say it was lust but I eshew that because he didn't really from a hermanutical perspective seem to have a problem there. However guilt for his former life of persecuting Christians does come into play since he mentions that "He was greatest among sinners" many times. And from empirical anyalisis of his writings depression may be his yoke as we can see wide variances in his timber when speaking. This subtely indicitive of what they call today "manic depression"

I say we don't need to go any further than what the Bible says.


To keep me from becoming conceited - Hmmm who would want to keep Paul from becoming conceited? Would satan want to protect Paul from becoming conceited, or would God want to protect Paul from becoming conceited?

because of these surpassingly great revelations - There is more, the reason to keep Paul from becoming conceited was because of the great revelations. These great revelations were from God. These revelations were not from satan. The focal point of the revelations WAS the revelations, God did not want Paul to get puffed up and conceited like he once was, and for new Christians to associated the Gospel with Paul and not with Jesus Christ.

Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses - Manic Depression? Nay Nay - Paul boasts all the more gladly. I ask anyone, are those the words of someone who is depressed about their situation. Paul's words are positive, not the words of someone in depression.

but there is more to the verse you started out with . . .

That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties - Delight? Are theses also the words of someone who is depressed?

 

[Svt4Him]

This woman? Remember she has a name.

Debbi surely needs our prayers and help. As fellow Christians we should suggest she find comfort with other Christians, during this period of depression. Deliverance ministies? are real activity sure, but blaming all our problems and ills on satan is playing right into satan hands. It give satan unwarrented power and strength over you. You are simple turning the keys of the car over to him. She needs support from other Christians.

Lead us not into temptation? Are you suggesting or saying that Debbi was lead, or tempted into become depressed? That depression is actually an evil spirit.

Now to hijack this thread, but yes, she does need deliverance if she has a spirit of fear. Depression may be spiritual, it may not, but talk to someone. As for "but blaming all our problems and ills on satan" you are assuming that if someone gets deliverance, they are blaming all their problems on satan. This is not true. Someone may misuse grace as an occasion to sin, but grace doesn't loose it's power if some people misuse it.

But you are not required to submit to this spirit, and there are some things you can do. Understand God's forgiveness, because a misunderstanding of that will cause a lot of depression. If you confess your sins, God is faithful and just, to forgive you from your sins and clean you from all unrighteousness.