Is It A Sin to touch?

[djbcrawford]

I'm suprised by your extreme reaction, we are called to be light and salt to a world which is stuck in darkness????

Ah, got it now, couldn't see the wood for the tree's as they say. DOH! There's you posting about how you see the world as grey, and me saying people use a grey world to excuse to justify wrong actions or inactions.

Appologies, that comment wasn't directed at you. I was thinking of my best mate (not a Christian), who was was selling his house. Someone had offered him the asking price and he had agreed to sell. They'd all been out for a meal together to celebrate and the person had bought them a bottle of wine as a thank you as they really liked the house. It takes a few weeks to get all the paperwork arranged (solicitors, morgages, etc.) but the day before they were due to finally sign the papers, someone else came along and offered more money. The original person upped their offer as much as the could put the new person was able to keep offering more.

He asked my advice and I said the right thing to do was to stick with the first person as he had agreed to sell them the house and they had already gone through the process of arranging the morgage, paying solicitor's fee's, etc... Just be happy you had got more money for it. He seemed to agree but later decided to go with the money. The original buyer, understandably, was very upset. I told him I thought he had done the wrong thing. We didn't fall out of anything, but it started an interesting debate on right and wrong (we used to watch "My name is Earl" and I used the analogy of what would Earl have done?) He said this is the real world, not black and white. He had to do what was best for his family, times were hard, and that was why he needed more money.

To be fair, his conscience bothered him enough to pay the original buyer the expenses they were out. On the other hand, a few weeks later he had a new sports car, and his wife had a new horse...

Moral - it's easy to be WHITE when it doesn't cost you anything.

 

[djbcrawford]

The bible says that we learn to distinguish by training up our senses by using them, and it also says that the Spirit is to guide us. It's actually unbiblical to say that the scriputures have the task of deciding these things for us.

We're not called to define anything and everythinig as black or white, but to do what is beneficial (everything is lawful).

When Jesus debated black and white with Satan in the desert, he used scripture to back up his points. What is point of having scripture in our heads if we don't use it. Are we not told to test the spirits to check where they're from. We cannot rely on spirit alone. We need both spirit and scripture to guide us. Spirit to reveal the truth from scripture and scripture to reveal the truth in spirit. Sometimes it sounds like you would do away with the bible all together. The bible talks about times when each person did what was right in their own eyes and those were not good times.

Things are not black and white, but actions and intentions are.

 

[Mrs. Enigma]

Wow, this thread is a long one. I don't think I will even get into debating over this.

 

[threeinone]

When Jesus debated black and white with Satan in the desert, he used scripture to back up his points. What is point of having scripture in our heads if we don't use it. Are we not told to test the spirits to check where they're from. We cannot rely on spirit alone. We need both spirit and scripture to guide us. Spirit to reveal the truth from scripture and scripture to reveal the truth in spirit. Sometimes it sounds like you would do away with the bible all together. The bible talks about times when each person did what was right in their own eyes and those were not good times.

Things are not black and white, but actions and intentions are.

Actions and intentions are not always Black and white either dj. Think about it. It is human nature to want to fit in, to do the right thing. But stuff gets in the way and sometimes we do the wrong thing without meaning to.

It is true that we need both bible and spirit together to get to where we need to be. Some may sound like they want to get rid of the bible. I see many who seem to wish to do away with the spirit and use only the bible, word for word, comma, colon, period.....that is as dangerous as doing away with the bible.

Each person does do what he/she believes to be right. That doesn't make him/her right......just that that is what they believe and that is their right, just as it is your right to try to get them to see what you believe in a reasonable way.

 

[Gukkor]

Actions and intentions are not always Black and white either dj. Think about it. It is human nature to want to fit in, to do the right thing. But stuff gets in the way and sometimes we do the wrong thing without meaning to.

It is true that we need both bible and spirit together to get to where we need to be. Some may sound like they want to get rid of the bible. I see many who seem to wish to do away with the spirit and use only the bible, word for word, comma, colon, period.....that is as dangerous as doing away with the bible.

Each person does do what he/she believes to be right. That doesn't make him/her right......just that that is what they believe and that is their right, just as it is your right to try to get them to see what you believe in a reasonable way.

Half-right. True, nobody willingly does what they actually believe to be morally wrong, but there are those who have no defined sense of right and wrong and simply do as their desires command.

 

[mont974x4]

I know people that have known what was morally right by Gods standard and decided to do disobey anyways. I would be willing to bet if we spent some time in self reflection we would find that we all are guilty of that at some point.

For example, when I was a drunk in my rebelious years I knew I was wrong and I chose to live that way. How many people know we aren't supposed to break the speed limit but do it anyways?

Look at 1 Cor chapters 8-10. What if I ignored the fact that someone had an issue regarding eating meat sacrificed to idols and I ate it in front of them anyways? We can apply this standard to alcohol and just about anything that is allowed but some people may struggle with. I think this is where the grey area comes in, some things are not directly forbidden but can create issues for some people anyways and we should be loving enough to acknowledge that and act accordingly.

 

[threeinone]

Half-right. True, nobody willingly does what they actually believe to be morally wrong, but there are those who have no defined sense of right and wrong and simply do as their desires command.

That's right Gukkor

but those who have no defined sense of right and wrong are the minority. I guess what I am getting at is that the minority seem always to be the subject of discussion and without too much doubt I can say that they are most likely not here in a Christian forum. I would rather be discussing what is important to the majority of people(probably all, or close to it, of the people here),,,,,,,people who are living the best they can within the rules, making mistakes, not always understanding.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it

Edit - and if they have no defined sense of right and wrong, aren't they ignorant rather than sinning. In order to sin, we must know it is a sin and do it anyway.

 

[Gukkor]

That's right Gukkor

but those who have no defined sense of right and wrong are the minority. I guess what I am getting at is that the minority seem always to be the subject of discussion and without too much doubt I can say that they are most likely not here in a Christian forum. I would rather be discussing what is important to the majority of people(probably all, or close to it, of the people here),,,,,,,people who are living the best they can within the rules, making mistakes, not always understanding.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it

They are, thankfully. It was not always so, and that people have improved so is a great thing indeed.

 

[Rockbysea]

Ah, got it now, couldn't see the wood for the tree's as they say. DOH! There's you posting about how you see the world as grey, and me saying people use a grey world to excuse to justify wrong actions or inactions.

Appologies, that comment wasn't directed at you. I was thinking of my best mate (not a Christian), who was was selling his house. Someone had offered him the asking price and he had agreed to sell. They'd all been out for a meal together to celebrate and the person had bought them a bottle of wine as a thank you as they really liked the house. It takes a few weeks to get all the paperwork arranged (solicitors, morgages, etc.) but the day before they were due to finally sign the papers, someone else came along and offered more money. The original person upped their offer as much as the could put the new person was able to keep offering more.

He asked my advice and I said the right thing to do was to stick with the first person as he had agreed to sell them the house and they had already gone through the process of arranging the morgage, paying solicitor's fee's, etc... Just be happy you had got more money for it. He seemed to agree but later decided to go with the money. The original buyer, understandably, was very upset. I told him I thought he had done the wrong thing. We didn't fall out of anything, but it started an interesting debate on right and wrong (we used to watch "My name is Earl" and I used the analogy of what would Earl have done?) He said this is the real world, not black and white. He had to do what was best for his family, times were hard, and that was why he needed more money.

To be fair, his conscience bothered him enough to pay the original buyer the expenses they were out. On the other hand, a few weeks later he had a new sports car, and his wife had a new horse...

Moral - it's easy to be WHITE when it doesn't cost you anything.

Nice real life example.

For those in the world everything is gray. For those called out of the world, everything is white and only white. What would a child of God do in a similar situation? He or she would accept the original offer no matter how much more the new buyer offered.

 

[Rockbysea]

Wow, this thread is a long one. I don't think I will even get into debating over this.

Looks like you're in the wrong thread. You might want to leave this thread and start a new thread about long threads

 

[threeinone]

Nice real life example.

For those in the world everything is gray. For those called out of the world, everything is white and only white. What would a child of God do in a similar situation? He or she would accept the original offer no matter how much more the new buyer offered.

I live in the world like most people Rock, and some things are grey and some are black and white. I don't know what you mean by those called out of the world Rock, but it sounds like you are not in this world and you are only white. I don't hang around with people who are only white....they are perfect or think they are. Just the impression I get from your post.

And by the way, I am in the world and I have a very close relationship with God, but when I am all white, I will be dead cuz that's the only way to be all white.

 

[djbcrawford]

I live in the world like most people Rock, and some things are grey and some are black and white. I don't know what you mean by those called out of the world Rock, but it sounds like you are not in this world and you are only white. I don't hang around with people who are only white....they are perfect or think they are. Just the impression I get from your post.

And by the way, I am in the world and I have a very close relationship with God, but when I am all white, I will be dead cuz that's the only way to be all white.

This thread must be pretty confusing for people looking for views on touching yourself...

I agree that we will only be white in heaven, but we should still aim to be as white as we can until then.

 

[threeinone]

This thread must be pretty confusing for people looking for views on touching yourself...

I agree that we will only be white in heaven, but we should still aim to be as white as we can until then.[/quote

Agreed

And the OP expressed dissatisfaction with where his/her thread was going. I mentioned at least once that all he/she had to do was go to a moderator and ask for it to be closed. Nothing happened. Anyone looking for views on masturbation would not find them and stay away. I did not hijack this thread. I think it just got in this direction and never moved back. I tried twice by making comments on masturbation because I am interested in that subject, but I was ignored.

Just so that anybody reading your post immediately following mine, doesn't get the idea that the hijacking was my fault. I did try to stop the hijacking.

 

[HopinWishinPrayin]

So if you are thinking of your spouse during masturbation, aren't you still cheating them out of the energy that could be devoted to the marriage bed? (Trying to get the thread back on track...)



Hope

 

[threeinone]

So if you are thinking of your spouse during masturbation, aren't you still cheating them out of the energy that could be devoted to the marriage bed? (Trying to get the thread back on track...)



Hope

I would think the answer to that would be yes. I can only think of one reason for a married person to touch and that would be if the spouse was away for a long time. There is consensual sex.....is there such a thing as consensual masturbation in a marriage? Interesting....if I had a husband available, I'd surely be making love. Then again, there are always stumbling blocks in life.

 

[Rockbysea]

I live in the world like most people Rock, and some things are grey and some are black and white. I don't know what you mean by those called out of the world Rock, but it sounds like you are not in this world and you are only white. I don't hang around with people who are only white....they are perfect or think they are. Just the impression I get from your post.

And by the way, I am in the world and I have a very close relationship with God, but when I am all white, I will be dead cuz that's the only way to be all white.

This thread is not going off track as long has we talk about sin…. since many believe that masturbation is sin and many don’t, they need to use various examples to support their views.

I live in the world but I am not of the world. The things in this world are gray to black. I have been washed in the blood of Christ. Does that mean I’m always perfect? Nope! But to be very honest, presently, sins in my life are all but extinct. If I do commit a sin in the future it is going to be a very small one in the mind, and if and when I do commit it, I will become immediately aware of it and I will ask for forgiveness and my Father in heaven, who is very pleased with me, immediately forgives me. Why is my Father pleased with me? because I do and say those things that are pleasing in His sight. When our Lord said, “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” I believe those words and take them literally and strive in that direction. Presently, I do not sin by nature, whereas in my previous life I was just the opposite, I would sin by nature. What I mean to say is that it has become very easy for me not to sin because I live the way God lives naturally with the presence of the Holy Spirit, and almost impossible to sin because I have a loving partnership with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is constantly with me. In fact, these words in my posts are not my words but His.

Does this mean I’m self-righteous and think I’m better than everyone else? Of course not!
Does this mean I judge others who don’t agree with this view? Of course not! I let God be the judge!

I suppose others will judge me as being self-righteous for having this view, let them judge because I know who judges me.

Now if you don’t want to hang around me because this is what I think and this is the way I live, well I can’t change that. But anyone who says to me that this is the way they live, I would want to hang out with that person, because if what they say is true, how can they do me harm?

 

[threeinone]

Hey Rock

You are free from sin, I am a sinner. That separates us. That separates you from any sinner. If we were all free from sin, God would not need us. He put the Tree of Life there knowing that we would sin. If He wanted us to be without sin, He would have created us so, without the Tree of Knowledge. If I had no sin, I would not need God the way I do. I do wish that you had not felt the need to speak of your sinlessness. Is it not enough to be so, without having to brandish it about. Puffing one's self out so is a sin in itself. Pride goeth before the fall. I don't know who said it but it is likely true.

 

[Rockbysea]

Hey Rock

You are free from sin, I am a sinner. That separates us. That separates you from any sinner. If we were all free from sin, God would not need us. He put the Tree of Life there knowing that we would sin. If He wanted us to be without sin, He would have created us so, without the Tree of Knowledge. If I had no sin, I would not need God the way I do. I do wish that you had not felt the need to speak of your sinlessness. Is it not enough to be so, without having to brandish it about. Puffing one's self out so is a sin in itself. Pride goeth before the fall. I don't know who said it but it is likely true.

My Doctrine:

Whoever remains in Christ does not sin. Whoever continually sins is in the practice of lawlessness and has neither seen Christ or knows Him. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous. The person who continually sins is of the devil because the devil was the first one to sin. This is why Christ came so that we might have the chance to destroy the works of the devil. He who is born of God does not sin; he simply can’t because the seed of the Holy Spirit has been planted in him because he is born of God. And if he does sin, in those rare occurrences, it is not a mortal sin and the Father will forgive Him upon request because he does those things that please Him, for he practices righteousness.

My accusations toward you:

None!

Your Doctrine:

I am a sinner therefore I am separated from those who sin. That separates those who don’t sin from any sinner. God created us to sin which is why he put the tree of knowledge there. We have to sin in order for God to need us. If God wanted us to be sinless He would have created us that way but then He wouldn’t need us. So God needs sinners, not those who don’t sin. If I had no sin I would not need God the way I do, so I sin and I keep on needing God the way I do because if I didn’t sin I would no longer need God.

Your accusations towards me:

- I whish you didn’t speak about your sinlessness, you shouldn't speak about it.
- It’s not enough for you to be sinless, you have to boast about it.
- You are sinning because you are puffing yourself up
- You are proud and if you keep going the way you are going you’re going to fall.
- Some one said that, I don’t know who, but you better take heed.

 

[threeinone]

My Doctrine:

Whoever remains in Christ does not sin. Whoever continually sins is in the practice of lawlessness and has neither seen Christ or knows Him. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous. The person who continually sins is of the devil because the devil was the first one to sin. This is why Christ came so that we might have the chance to destroy the works of the devil. He who is born of God does not sin; he simply can’t because the seed of the Holy Spirit has been planted in him because he is born of God. And if he does sin, in those rare occurrences, it is not a mortal sin and the Father will forgive Him upon request because he does those things that please Him, for he practices righteousness.

My accusations toward you:

None!

Your Doctrine:

I am a sinner therefore I am separated from those who sin. That separates those who don’t sin from any sinner. God created us to sin which is why he put the tree of knowledge there. We have to sin in order for God to need us. If God wanted us to be sinless He would have created us that way but then He wouldn’t need us. So God needs sinners, not those who don’t sin. If I had no sin I would not need God the way I do, so I sin and I keep on needing God the way I do because if I didn’t sin I would no longer need God.

Your accusations towards me:

- I whish you didn’t speak about your sinlessness, you shouldn't speak about it.
- It’s not enough for you to be sinless, you have to boast about it.
- You are sinning because you are puffing yourself up
- You are proud and if you keep going the way you are going you’re going to fall.
- Some one said that, I don’t know who, but you better take heed.

Sorry Rock'

I did not say it the way you repeated it....not at all. And that is not my doctrine. If I was giving you my doctrine, I would tell you so, that you would know it was other than my thoughts, responses to you. If I accused you of anything, I apoligize for I was not aware that I accused you of anything. I spoke what I thought and that is all. What you just posted is at least as bad if not worse than what you figure I posted. You do not seem sinless to me and that is just my thought, my opinion, not my doctrine. Someone of God, godly, sinless, would have tried to find something positive in my post and would have concentrated on that. There is always something positive to find. Even I a sinner know that.

And who said anything about constantly sinning. I certainly didn't. That was your idea. Being a sinner does not mean constantly sinning. Those seem like extremes that you made up. The more I read of your post, the more I am quite aware that you are not free of sin. If you were, my words would not have caused you to repond as you did.

 

[joywillcome777]

Masturbation involving lusting, yes. Other than that... it's a personal choice. Dr. James Dobson does not think that it is sin.