Is It A Sin to touch?

bod44 · Jul 5, 2006

threeinone said:
I hope you live a holy and perfect life..................

I don't say any of that as if I am perfect, but, by the Grace of God I have been delivered from masturbation, lust, among many other things. Not because of anything that I do but because I completely gave my life over to God and I yielded myself to the control of the spirit of God. Perhaps if we were busier giving ourselves to righteousness and being busy with our Father's business, we wouldn't have time to sit here allow our fleshly desires completely overwhelm us.Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

threeinone · Jul 5, 2006

BrokenChains said:
I didn't start masterbating until I was 15.

I'll take your word for it.

They don't call it that when babies and young children do it. Many people don't even recognize what their children are doing.. I am not saying this in defence of masturbating.....it is just a fact of life. Different people deal with it in different ways.

bod44 · Jul 5, 2006

holo said:
I assume, then, that you also oppose any other form of sex except intercourse, and that you hold the old catholic view that sperm must be "deposited" inside the vagina.

Byt the way, what "ridiculous arguments" are you referring to, exactly?

well, I assume you are referring to oral or other things that I would rather not mention, and my personal conviction is that sex or sexual activities were not designed for someone to please themselves. Once again I say that sex was designed for creation and was made as a beautiful way for two to become one. Not for me to be pleasured by someone. Sex is not a game. All these other 'forms' of sex including masturbation is simply a way to please oneself. When someone is ruled by their lust and by their desires it becomes a game and even if you are having sex with a real person, in your mind its just like masturbating. You're doing it to please yourself not out of a pure love for your spouse.
Actually I'm not married but I was saved out of a very wild life that involved alot of experience in everything that we are talking about. I've often considered what I would do in the military and I don't condemn anyone in that situation. I just can't imagine justifying masturbating if I was married and living in the same house. If your sexual desires are driven by your pure love for your wife, you won't be tempted to touch when she's not around! If you have no control over your passions, then you will always be wanting to please your flesh. I have found out of experience that nothing besides what God designed for His Glory is fulfilling and it is all driven by a problem with lust.

And in response to threeinone's comments, yes, tension is always going to be there. But, have you tried crying out to God for deliverence from your passions? Jesus didn't save us so we could still be under the rule of our flesh!! He has given us the power by faith to conquer these passions and live a holy life pleasing to God! And Holo, gimme scripture. every scripture points against every response you give. If you had scripture to support you I would believe you because I don't live by opinion but by the truth, which is the Word of God. I don't want to come across as being mean either but every response you give me is exactly what I get when I talk to unsaved friends or people that I witness to on the street!
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Gukkor · Jul 5, 2006

Masturbation has less in common with a game and more in common with alcohol, in my opinion. It's pleasurable and acceptable, perhaps even beneficial in the right context, but has an inherent potential danger that one should remain keenly aware of. Actually, now that I think about it, that's actually an adequate descriptor for many games, too.

Mling · Jul 5, 2006

How do you figure that oral sex is driven by selfishness? I mean, it could be, certainly, but not necessarily.
I see oral sex as being extremely self-less, from the point of view of the person who is willingly giving because they want to please their partner. If the person who is "receiving" recipricates at some point, then why should it be an inherently selfish act?

Masturbation has less in common with a game and more in common with alcohol, in my opinion. It's pleasurable and acceptable, perhaps even beneficial in the right context, but has an inherent potential danger that one should remain keenly aware of.

Hey, that's a good comparison. I like that.

bod44 · Jul 5, 2006

Gukkor said:
Masturbation has less in common with a game and more in common with alcohol, in my opinion. It's pleasurable and acceptable, perhaps even beneficial in the right context, but has an inherent potential danger that one should remain keenly aware of. Actually, now that I think about it, that's actually an adequate descriptor for many games, too.

true, but its only the alcoholics that will tell you its beneficial. So will those who are given to lust going to defend the 'benefits' of masturbation. I really don't see any benefits in masturbation in any situation whatsoever. I can't see Jesus masturbating(God forgive me for mentioning that)? Can you? Let us live like Christ isn't that what we are supposed to do? If we are truly born of the spirit then it should be christ living through us. Galatians 2:20: For I am crucified with christ nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth within me!

Mling · Jul 5, 2006

Well...scientists who have found that occasional drinking lowers your chances of getting heart disease would also argue that drinking can be beneficial.

And people who find that they are less obsessed with sex if they allow themselves occasional release would argue that masturbation is beneficial.

bod44 · Jul 5, 2006

Mling said:
How do you figure that oral sex is driven by selfishness? I mean, it could be, certainly, but not necessarily.
I see oral sex as being extremely self-less, from the point of view of the person who is willingly giving because they want to please their partner. If the person who is "receiving" recipricates at some point, then why should it be an inherently selfish act?

Hey, that's a good comparison. I like that.

Look, I have learned through experience that oral sex is driven by selfishness at least in men. Why do guys like it? "All the good stuff with out the work"(forgive me) Yes, the person doing it might be self-less, but the person recieving is only recieving and revelling in their own pleasure not caring about the other. "Love is first pure" Love doesn't cause someone to give their 'other' oral sex. Besides the foundational principle here is that sex was designed as intercourse between the male sex organ and the female sex organ, nothing else. Can't there be excitement in trying various positions etc without perverting it? The definition of perversion is basically something that is opposite or changed from what its supposed to be. Therefore oral sex is a perversion of the perfect unifying, creating, joy that God designed.

Gukkor · Jul 5, 2006

bod44 said:
true, but its only the alcoholics that will tell you its beneficial. So will those who are given to lust going to defend the 'benefits' of masturbation. I really don't see any benefits in masturbation in any situation whatsoever. I can't see Jesus masturbating(God forgive me for mentioning that)? Can you? Let us live like Christ isn't that what we are supposed to do? If we are truly born of the spirit then it should be christ living through us. Galatians 2:20: For I am crucified with christ nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth within me!

I don't know if Jesus masturbated, and I don't really care to speculate, though it honestly wouldn't surprise or offend my sensibilities either way. Since the Bible says nothing about it, I guess it's more or less up to whether you perceive masturbation to be sinful. I don't, so whether Jesus masturbated or not is irrelevant in my mind. You do, so you can't imagine Him doing so (and in fact seem wary even of speaking of it at all), nor would I have the arrogance to expect you to.

Ultimately, it's certainly at least partially a matter of perspective, and your faithfulness to God will be made evident (or revealed to have a kink that needs to be worked out) no matter what you believe on this matter. If you do believe that it is a sin, I would (and I'm just me, so don't think I'm making a royal decree or anything) strongly urge that you do everything in your power not to touch. If you don't think that masturbating in itself is a sin, I would equally strongly urge you to not let a mere pleasant activity become an idol and become addicted to it. Whether or not you believe masturbation is an outright sin, addiction to anything is a form of idolatry, and one we should avoid carefully.

bod44 · Jul 5, 2006

Mling said:
Well...scientists who have found that occasional drinking lowers your chances of getting heart disease would also argue that drinking can be beneficial.

And people who find that they are less obsessed with sex if they allow themselves occasional release would argue that masturbation is beneficial.

I'm not arguing against alcohol! lol Masturbation is an endless cycle. I used to be totally addicted to masturbation. I used to claim that I could do it without lust but see, we aren't supposed to be controlled by the lusts and passions of our flesh! The bottom line is, masturbation is letting ourselves be controlled by the desires of our flesh! Therefore, rather than trusting God to be far more satisfying than an [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], we put our self(which is Idolatry) before God and we pleasure ourselves. The very phrase 'pleasure myself' should be enough! Why should I be spending time simply pleasuring myself? Again, can you see Jesus doing that? And along the lines of oral, the only reason we accept it nowadays is because somehow we as a society have made it less than sex along the lines of making out so that somehow its okay because we're not losing our virginity but we are still able to please ourselves. That is the pervading idea with it and probably the only reason we can talk about it without being appalled.

bod44 · Jul 5, 2006

Gukkor said:
I don't know if Jesus masturbated, and I don't really care to speculate, though it honestly wouldn't surprise or offend my sensibilities either way. Since the Bible says nothing about it, I guess it's more or less up to whether you perceive masturbation to be sinful. I don't, so whether Jesus masturbated or not is irrelevant in my mind. You do, so you can't imagine Him doing so (and in fact seem wary even of speaking of it at all), nor would I have the arrogance to expect you to.

Ultimately, it's certainly at least partially a matter of perspective, and your faithfulness to God will be made evident (or revealed to have a kink that needs to be worked out) no matter what you believe on this matter. If you do believe that it is a sin, I would (and I'm just me, so don't think I'm making a royal decree or anything) strongly urge that you do everything in your power not to touch. If you don't think that masturbating in itself is a sin, I would equally strongly urge you to not let a mere pleasant activity become an idol and become addicted to it. Whether or not you believe masturbation is an outright sin, addiction to anything is a form of idolatry, and one we should avoid carefully.

well, brother, I don't want to fight with you! lol But I want all that have been talking about this to know what the Bible says about the ideas behind it and that the Bible clearly teaches victory over our fleshly desires. I was completely delivered and I am so much more fulfilled and I want to be pure and blameless in the sight of God by His Grace.

Gukkor · Jul 5, 2006

bod44 said:
well, brother, I don't want to fight with you! lol But I want all that have been talking about this to know what the Bible says about the ideas behind it and that the Bible clearly teaches victory over our fleshly desires. I was completely delivered and I am so much more fulfilled and I want to be pure and blameless in the sight of God by His Grace.

Quite so, and I am glad for that!

threeinone · Jul 5, 2006

Romanseight2005 said:
First of all let me start out by saying that I don't think anyone here is without compassion for sexual tension. But as far as babies and children, all I will say is that we are born sinners. Yes a child doesn't even know it's sexual, so they do not know what the purpose of their organs are. This doesn't mean that an adult who masturbates can claim innocence. There is something called the age of accountability.

Something you said concerns me greatly. You seem to assume that masturbation satisfies an urge, and keeps one content when they might otherwise go out and rape someone. This could not be further from the truth. Why don't you go and find some interviews with serial killers? They will all tell you they started out with porn and masturbation. Ted Bundy said that the porn he was into is on everyone's television now. It's not even considered porn anymore. Most of the time when men touch it is from some kind of visual stimulation. This drive is not satisfied, it wants more and more. It also escalates, like an alcoholic who needs harder alcohol, or more of it, to get the same feeling. Most men at this point would need harder and more deviant porn. If you think that rape occurs due to sexual tension, you are decieved. Rape is violence, and yes someone who started out liking the feeling of masturbation and needs to feed his urge with something more so he can keep that same intensity, is likely to eventually develop the urge for violent sex. I am not saying everyone who masturbates becomes a rapist. But it definitely contributes to rape. It doesn't in anyway stop it, or curb it, anymore than marriage stops someone from masturbating who has developed a habit.

Let's not get carried away now. I was not making any sweeping announcements as to how the world is. I was giving an opinion, laying down my throughts, which I will not do here anymore beyond this. Masturbating is like all the other sins we all commit all the time. You might never consider masturbating as I do, but without a doubt there is at least one sin that you commit that I would never dream of doing. It is the nature of the beast to sin......we each sin in our own way. We each have our priorities. No one here is a saint to my knowledge. I touch, God knows and He knows why and He does not punish me. Let the first one here without sin throw the first stone at me or anyone else who masturbates.

And enough of the lust...that is the exaggeration of the act.

bod44 · Jul 5, 2006

threeinone said:
Let's not get carried away now. I was not making any sweeping announcements as to how the world is. I was giving an opinion, laying down my throughts, which I will not do here anymore beyond this. Masturbating is like all the other sins we all commit all the time. You might never consider masturbating as I do, but without a doubt there is at least one sin that you commit that I would never dream of doing. It is the nature of the beast to sin......we each sin in our own way. We each have our priorities. No one here is a saint to my knowledge. I touch, God knows and He knows why and He does not punish me. Let the first one here without sin throw the first stone at me or anyone else who masturbates.

And enough of the lust...that is the exaggeration of the act.

Yes, it is the nature of the beast to sin. But, God said be ye Holy for I am holy. The Bible preaches deliverence from sin! Paul wrote to the corinthians and asked them why they were still acting like "mere men" Why were they still living under the control of their natural desires? 1 Corinthians 3:3 in the amplified version of the Bible: For ye are still(unspiriual, having the nature) of the flesh-under the controll of ordinary impulses. For as long as there are envying and jealousy and wrangling and factions among you, are you not unspiritual and of the flesh, behaving yourselves after a human standard and like mere(unchanged) men?
Jesus saved us so we could be holy as he is holy. I don't want to throw stones, I only want to help you understand that the Bible does not promote any form of continuing in sin. Can we fail? yes. But 1 Corinthians 10:13 shows that we don't have to. God wants us to have victory over sin. However big or small. I would encourage you to study Galatians 5 and Romans 5-10 and see what you find out. All through there the Bible is teaching a crucifixion of our fleshly desires along with Christ and a resurection with Christ to a new life with new desires! Colossians 3:1-3 says in the amplified: If you then have been raised with Christ to a new life, thus sharisng His resurrection from the dead, aim at and seek the rich, eternal treasures that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. And set your minds and keep them set on what is above- the higher things- not on the things that are on the earth. For as far as this world is concerned, you have died, and your new, real life, is hid with Christ in God.
A new creature or beast, through Christ Jesus. I'm thankful that by faith in the promises of God's word, we CAN live a sinless life through Christ. I didn't conquer my masturbation and lust and sexual desires problems, til I reckoned myself dead to them and I yielded one hundred percent of my life and desires and thoughts etc, to God. I don't mean to condemn or accuse you, but to encourage you to live holy in all manner of conversation(any aspect of life in the greek). 1 Peter 1:15-17.

threeinone · Jul 5, 2006

bod44 said:
Yes, it is the nature of the beast to sin. But, God said be ye Holy for I am holy. The Bible preaches deliverence from sin! Paul wrote to the corinthians and asked them why they were still acting like "mere men" Why were they still living under the control of their natural desires? 1 Corinthians 3:3 in the amplified version of the Bible: For ye are still(unspiriual, having the nature) of the flesh-under the controll of ordinary impulses. For as long as there are envying and jealousy and wrangling and factions among you, are you not unspiritual and of the flesh, behaving yourselves after a human standard and like mere(unchanged) men?
Jesus saved us so we could be holy as he is holy. I don't want to throw stones, I only want to help you understand that the Bible does not promote any form of continuing in sin. Can we fail? yes. But 1 Corinthians 10:13 shows that we don't have to. God wants us to have victory over sin. However big or small. I would encourage you to study Galatians 5 and Romans 5-10 and see what you find out. All through there the Bible is teaching a crucifixion of our fleshly desires along with Christ and a resurection with Christ to a new life with new desires! Colossians 3:1-3 says in the amplified: If you then have been raised with Christ to a new life, thus sharisng His resurrection from the dead, aim at and seek the rich, eternal treasures that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. And set your minds and keep them set on what is above- the higher things- not on the things that are on the earth. For as far as this world is concerned, you have died, and your new, real life, is hid with Christ in God.

A new creature or beast, through Christ Jesus. I'm thankful that by faith in the promises of God's word, we CAN live a sinless life through Christ. I didn't conquer my masturbation and lust and sexual desires problems, til I reckoned myself dead to them and I yielded one hundred percent of my life and desires and thoughts etc, to God. I don't mean to condemn or accuse you, but to encourage you to live holy in all manner of conversation(any aspect of life in the greek). 1 Peter 1:15-17.

The only difference between you and me is that I have stated my sin as you call it and you have wisely not stated yours. Therefore you are trying to teach me when you are the same as me. You are no holier than I am. You just do different things.

So just stop it. I made the mistake of making my business public and you have made the mistake of thinking you have the right to tell me what I am, what you THINK I am. I am not pushing you around but of course you are smart enough to keep your sins to yourself. Neither of us smells very good and be very sure that you live in the flesh just like all the rest of us for the duration of the human world. It's the nature of the beast and always will be on this earth.

bod44 · Jul 5, 2006

threeinone said:
The only difference between you and me is that I have stated my sin as you call it and you have wisely not stated yours. Therefore you are trying to teach me when you are the same as me. You are no holier than I am. You just do different things.

So just stop it. I made the mistake of making my business public and you have made the mistake of thinking you have the right to tell me what I am, what you THINK I am. I am not pushing you around but of course you are smart enough to keep your sins to yourself. Neither of us smells very good and be very sure that you live in the flesh just like all the rest of us for the duration of the human world. It's the nature of the beast and always will be on this earth.

well, I'm sorry if I've upset you I didn't mean to do that. Ma'am you could follow me right ow and look at all my life and by the grace of God there is no sin in my life. I have openly told you of some of the many sins that were in my life that God has completely delivered me from. God has delivered my from sin so that I can have a conscience void of offence before all men.

genestealerbroodlord · Jul 6, 2006

sarbee said:
masturbation isnt a sin in itself, rather the thoughts that go with it...

I agree with this. I think it would be quite difficult to touch without the sinful thoughts. One thing that does come to mind is that Doctors recommend touching yourself as a good way to prevent testicular cancer, although i would check that out before accepting my word for it, as im not sure if this is correct.

threeinone · Jul 6, 2006

bod44 said:
well, I'm sorry if I've upset you I didn't mean to do that. Ma'am you could follow me right ow and look at all my life and by the grace of God there is no sin in my life. I have openly told you of some of the many sins that were in my life that God has completely delivered me from. God has delivered my from sin so that I can have a conscience void of offence before all men.

Actually you did not upset me and I do congratulate you for you are the only person I have ever known who is without sin. Sorry, that is not quite true. Jesus was/is without sin.

threeinone · Jul 6, 2006

BrokenChains said:
What would I suggest? When you have a craving to relieve your...sexual tension, why not try spending time reading the Bible, listening to God, talking with him.

Yes BC

the things you suggest to relieve sexual craving are very good ideas at any time, in fact. I have talked with a couple other young men struggling with masturbation and I admire them as well as you for your determination to overcome. There is a hymn "We Shall Overcome" and indeed we shall overcome with determination and prayer. For many, masturbation is not the desired way to go and I pray for you all in your struggles. Also, in spite of the saying, an old dog can learn new tricks so perhaps I can.

OnlyThruHim617 · Jul 6, 2006

All I have to say, is that I don't believe that there is anything wrong with masturbation. Although it can lead to problems. It does, possilbly, open doors to sin. I don't think that the act itself is sinful.

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