Is It A Sin to touch?

holo said:

Ah, but everything is lawful to us...
chew on that...

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The word says that anything that is not of faith is sin. It also speaks toward us not making our brother stumble because of our own liberty.

Therefore, it might be best not to touch in public because you might make your brother offended.

(that's got to be the very most useless advice I have ever given!..... )

Asaph

Asaph said:

(that's got to be the very most useless advice I have ever given!..... )

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It would certainly cause me to stumble, physically.
If the fundies were liberals, I'm sure that's the advice they would actually give (as they would be all free and stuff, but under strict rules), since it's their business to make sure that
a) no christian gets offended, and
b) that everybody else do.

/me bites

holo said:

It would certainly cause me to stumble, physically.
If the fundies were liberals, I'm sure that's the advice they would actually give (as they would be all free and stuff, but under strict rules), since it's their business to make sure that
a) no christian gets offended, and
b) that everybody else do.

* holo bites

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ROFL!!!!.........Oh man, it so scares the heck out of me that I understood that!....

Be greatly blessed bro,
Asaph

holo said:

Ah, but everything is lawful to us...
chew on that...

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of course its not against the law...but it is against God...when he said lawful he meant lawful....is it breaking the law? don't twist stuff around so that you can let your flesh and sin have dominion over you....

true christians are not looking for a way to sin...there looking for a way out of sin....

I read about half of this thread, and I have a few comments. Firstly, we cannot use reason to see if masturbation is wrong or not. We cannot assume that it is encouraging lust... And masturbation isn't sex. It is sexual stimulation. I have no reason to believe it is wrong, but I think in most cases doing it gives in to fleshly desires. I don't have a desire for it when I walk close by the Spirit. And this about would Jesus touch... I think what would Jesus think is a much better question than what would Jesus do. We need His strength to overcome sin. Jesus, or even Paul, I doubt they would do any of the things we do for enjoyment like playing games, there only purpose was to advance the Word of God. If you want to do that the way Jesus and Paul did, quit your job and do something that only furthers the Word. If masturbation is in any way leading you towards sin then ask for the strength to stop. Any thing that could be bondage... I don't touch but I know it has health benefits like it gets you ready to sleep well and others. I'm really not sure if we can say that masturbation is sinful. If you have any sort of guilt based on your thoughts and feelings or if anyone can tell you something to make you feel guilty about it, then obviously don't do it. I want to seek God in prayer for the answer if this is important. I think it is good to have Scriptures that show us when we know masturbation is hurting us. It would be nice to have someone post all the usefull Scriptures on this, as there are people who should know. But for an absolute answer, I don't have one, I am not sure. And that's all I have to say about that.

I'm just stating the fact that we are not under the law and hence will not be judged by it. We are under grace and love. If it's not love, it's wrong. Quite simple.

But what I do to my own body when I'm alone has no bearing on anybody else. It's not a "stumbling block" because it's nobody's business anymore than how many wipes I use in the bathroom.

holo said:

I'm just stating the fact that we are not under the law and hence will not be judged by it. We are under grace and love. If it's not love, it's wrong. Quite simple.

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So, if I do not act out of love, I'll go to Hell, but if I'm sexually immoral and partake in homosexual orgies, it's perfectly all right?

The Bible says that there is sin that is not unto death, and I have often wondered exactly what that referred to, but we should also be careful to call what we know is sin exactly what it is and go from there. We are not supposed to be disabled because of sin, but learn how to avoid it and not let it be master of our lives. Easier said that done? Absolutely, but that is why we are told to grow in His grace towards the day we are able to see the fruit of the Holy Spirit in our lives called self-control. It is dangerous to call dark light and visa versa, though, as if we mislead even one of the Lord's "little ones " of faith, it would better if we had a millstone tied to our necks and be thrown in a lake. Perhaps this is why we are told to not let there be many teachers among us, as the greater responsibility lies upon their heads.

1Jo 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Is. 5:20 Destruction is certain for those who say that evil is good and good is evil; that dark is light and light is dark; that bitter is sweet and sweet is bitter.

2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Gal. 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

jasperbound said:

So, if I do not act out of love, I'll go to Hell, but if I'm sexually immoral and partake in homosexual orgies, it's perfectly all right?

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If you don't accept God's grace, you'll get excatly what you deserve. I'm not saying your actions don't matter at all (and you know that). I'm saying salvation does not add or subtract to your being a child of God, from the day you accept Jesus to the day you die.

holo said:

If you don't accept God's grace, you'll get excatly what you deserve. I'm not saying your actions don't matter at all (and you know that). I'm saying salvation does not add or subtract to your being a child of God, from the day you accept Jesus to the day you die.

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But if actions do matter, that's legalism. Besides, we aren't under the Law. We're under grace, and all that's required is faith (I notice that the apostles do not always mention "love" as a prerequisite for salvation), not actions. Otherwise, it's legalistic and replacing the Law with another (albeit more lenient) law.

Actions matter in the sense that what I do have an impact on others. Legalism is more like when an evangelists presents you with the ultimatum of having to choose between rock music and heaven.

While not many of us agree with examples like this, very few of us are really non-legalistic.

If you are mastubating the guy next to you on the bus, it is most definately a sin. Whether he likes it or not it is still against the law af the land and you are therefore not following what is clear.

If that fellow happens to be ide amin or some other despot who is fully capable of ammending the law of the land on a whim and he decares it lawfull because he is enjoying himself, then you must at that point understand the scripture that says "anything that is not of faith is sin".

Which was my original point.

Asaph

holo said:

Actions matter in the sense that what I do have an impact on others. Legalism is more like when an evangelists presents you with the ultimatum of having to choose between rock music and heaven.

While not many of us agree with examples like this, very few of us are really non-legalistic.

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Even those who pretend to be non-legalistic aren't. They'll simply redefine legalism to say their own "you must do this for salvation and not do this for salvation!" ideas aren't legalism.

According to my dictionary, the theological definition of legalism is: "dependence on moral law rather than on personal religious faith." Can't I have personal religious faith and still rape women, blaspheme the Lord, etc.? Surely intentionally sinning won't jeopardize my salvation unless God expects me to follow some sort of law that tells me not to rape women or blaspheme!

I'm not certain the act of masturbation is a sin. In some ways it could possibly help someone. I'd think it'd be better to relieve tension, more-so, then burn with passon. That being said, it's not possible for me. Doing it opens a downsliding door for me, and I know I can't do it.

The funny thing about masturbation, is that since it is a gray area, for myself, I can tend to justify it. When asking the question "Is masturbation a sin?" make sure you're asking God first. If you have reservations, well, that'd be a good start to consider.

Don't go into the question already deciding what you want, but go into the situation trying to figure out what He wants. Like I said, it may be possible for some, but hey, I know my limits.

An accountability partner once told me (as we've struggled with this as well), "You can't raise your hands in praise, if they are buried in your pants".

Hope you find the answers you're looking for.

"anything that is not of faith is sin".

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hhmmm what exactly does this scripture refer to?

as.... does this mean that sleeping (for example) is a sin? .... because it doesn't involve faith?

ok... first, yes, the Bible speaks of touching yourself, but under another name. Remember Onan from Genesis 38,9-10?

9And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

In many other languages than English, f.ex. Norwegian, the word for touching yourself is "onani", direct off the name Onan and the connection is clear.

However, it is a different situation, and is not completely in relation to what we call touching yourself today.

Remember, the Word of God doesn't "just" say no impure thoughts, but that lust toward other people than your spouse is sin. Now... how can you touch without fantasizing? To me that seems pretty impossible.

Another thing is - when you fill your life with these kind of things, eventually it will fill your mind and you'll have trouble with it. Trust me. I know.

Another question is - what to do when tempted? Call on Jesus! Tell Him what's going on in your head. Remember that He died for your sins on the cross. Remember, the law is never the power to overcome temptation. Only the gospel can motivate you to do what God wants.

RP1000 said:

hhmmm what exactly does this scripture refer to?

as.... does this mean that sleeping (for example) is a sin? .... because it doesn't involve faith?

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In the context from which it was taken it is obvious that it is not merely refering to foods.

Asaph

Rafael said:

The Bible says that there is sin that is not unto death, and I have often wondered exactly what that referred to, but we should also be careful to call what we know is sin exactly what it is and go from there. We are not supposed to be disabled because of sin, but learn how to avoid it and not let it be master of our lives. Easier said that done? Absolutely, but that is why we are told to grow in His grace towards the day we are able to see the fruit of the Holy Spirit in our lives called self-control. It is dangerous to call dark light and visa versa, though, as if we mislead even one of the Lord's "little ones " of faith, it would better if we had a millstone tied to our necks and be thrown in a lake. Perhaps this is why we are told to not let there be many teachers among us, as the greater responsibility lies upon their heads.

1Jo 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Is. 5:20 Destruction is certain for those who say that evil is good and good is evil; that dark is light and light is dark; that bitter is sweet and sweet is bitter.

2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Gal. 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

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it is saying that all sin is not unto permanent death where you can't repent accept one...and that one is blaspheming the holy spirit you can't repent from that so it is unto death...

yes it is becouse in luke i think it says u commit adultry with your mind

well, I can't provide a verse that says "Masturbation is an abomination in my sight saith the Lord"

But I do know that Jesus said "I tell you if you look at a woman and lust after her in your heart, you have committed adultery".

The point he was getting at in that whole section was that the laws and rules are all about trying to show us what kind of people we should be. Lust is bad, indulging lust is bad, its evil because it is contrary to God and it is bad for us.

This is kind of what Paul is getting at when he says that all things are legal for me but not all things are profitable.

So whether or not it is a "sin" I must ask, does it make you more lustfull? or less? does it lead you closer to being pure in heart, or does it hinder you?

I know, being a guy, that we have a very strong sex drive.. But not everything that comes out of that is "natural" in the sense that it is as God intended. Lust is like greed, or gluttony. It is something that was natural that has gotten out of place and has become unnaturally exagerated.
When you indulge those things they grow and gain more force. The satisfaction they provide is very temporary, but like a drug, the desire for them grows greater with indulgence.

The more you indulge your lust, the more lustful you become.

Now, something I feel the need to point out is that lust is connected in a way to love. Lust involves physical pleasure obviously and many people think that lust is only about physical pleasure. This is not really the case. To a great degree, lust is the misplaced desire for love, affection, and companionship. Lust is what happens when you begin to place gratification of physical pleasure where love, affection, and companionship should be. This is why the natural sexual relations within marriage do not create the same results as gratification of lust.

When you make sex about gratifying physical pleasure, rather than about the union in love of husband and wife, it turns love into lust. Lust can never satisfy the desire we have for love and thats why its gratification is so temporary and why its desire always grows.

Thus whether or not masturbation is a sin, I am convinced it is something that is harmful to us and something that hinders our growth in Christ. I would be the last person to say that in a condemning fashion as I struggle with this issue as much as any man.