Is God Three, or Two?

[cubinity]

God is love among other things one of which is truth.
We are to love truth. Believing lies about who God is, damages our personel relationship with God. That of course is the idea.

This is a difficult perception to apply since the truth of this particular issue remains a mystery. Since the exact details of the Trinity remain the product of tradition and debatable interpretation of Scriptures, then how can we outright insist that any ideas about the Trinity that differ from our own are lies?

Certainty =/= truth. It is cool that people feel certain they have God figured out, but all of us are potentially wrong in our certainty. For me, my strict love for the truth leads me to insist on admitting when I don't actually know something. In this case, nobody knows but those who can't, or aren't, answering. For those of us who, by chance, happen to be right in our perception, we have no actual proof. So, whether we are right or wrong remains a mystery even to us, whether we are willing to admit it or not.

 

[2ducklow]

I agree with you that Jesus' flesh and blood did not come down from heaven. So it would follow that His flesh and blood was not what ascended to the Father.

SCripture says that Jesus was flesh and blood after ther resurrection, and definitely not spirit.

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

I do not believe that the man Jesus 'existed in heaven before He was born.' But I believe the Word which was with God, and was God, did exist before Jesus was born. If not, how could it (the Word) have been made flesh? I believe it was the Word which ascended back to God after Jesus' flesh disintegrated into our earthly atmostphere.

the word is what God says everywhere in the bible, including john 1. So just as jesus isn't literally a door or a shepard, or a light, likewise he is not literally the word of god or what God says.

The 'OT people' ate literal bread, which was only a picture, or a type of that which was to come. That it why it could not give them eternal life.



"And God said, "Let there be light and there was light."

I believe it is quite foolish to try to explain that which is spiritual by mortal reasoning and with mortal speech, let alone enter into an argument about it with anyone.

well you have 3 choices, either explain the spiritual with mortal reasoning and mortal speech, or explain it with mortal irrational unreasoning, and mortal jibberish, or don't explain it at all. Jesus explain spiritual things with parables . Jesus explained evrything with mortal speech and mortal reasoning. Name anything Jesus explained with jibberish, or unreasoning.

I hold the knowledge and assurance of who Jesus was then, and who He is now in my heart, and I am satisfied with that knowledge and assurance. Because I am mortal I do not know, and cannot speak, the spiritual language that it would take to explain who Jesus was/is. I believe it must be accepted by faith, which I do.

Peter had no difficulty in explainiong who Jesus was, 'the son of the living God" that's who I believe Jesus is as well.

Thank you, 2ducklow for your reply. It is appreciated.

May God bless you.

which i suppose means that's all you want to say on the topic.

 

[Evergreen48]

SCripture says that Jesus was flesh and blood after ther resurrection, and definitely not spirit.
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

I believe that, and I am not arguing otherwise.

the word is what God says everywhere in the bible, including john 1. So just as jesus isn't literally a door or a shepard, or a light, likewise he is not literally the word of god or what God says.

The ' logos ' in John 1:1 is, according to Strong's, "something said (including the thought); by implication, a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive". This is what John says was with God, and was God in the beginning, and that this is what was made flesh. You would not be able to convince me that this would fall into the same category as Jesus referring to himself as a 'door' or a 'shepherd'.

well you have 3 choices, either explain the spiritual with mortal reasoning and mortal speech, or explain it with mortal irrational unreasoning, and mortal jibberish, or don't explain it at all. Jesus explain spiritual things with parables . Jesus explained evrything with mortal speech and mortal reasoning. Name anything Jesus explained with jibberish, or unreasoning.

I don't believe you can explain spiritual things with mortal reasoning and mortal speech unless you also have the ability to open one's understanding so that they can understand also. Jesus sometimes made a comparison between the literal and the spiritual, but then He also opened the understanding of the individuals so that they could understand. I don't have that ability.

Peter had no difficulty in explainiong who Jesus was, 'the son of the living God" that's who I believe Jesus is as well.

I believe that also. But what I meant by explaining who Jesus was/is, was that I do not have the ability as a mortal to explain something that took place in the hidden spiritual realm, e.g. the 'Word becoming flesh' . I accept this by faith, and I am satisfied with it, but I do not have the ability to speak the words needed to expound any further on it, because this would require knowing the spiritual language and also to have the ability to open their understanding to it. I have neither.

which i suppose means that's all you want to say on the topic.

More or less, yes.

 

[Doveaman]

And that's what happens when one takes verses out of context.

The Father is Spirit and the Son is Spirit no matter what the context. Notice that the Counselor is also the Spirit, the Holy Spirit:

And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— the Spirit - John 14:16-17

Not at all. if you use that logic then you could also wrongly say that the Son is the Father based on verse 9.

I think not. Verse 9 actually supports my claim:

Jesus answered...Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? - John 14:9.

If the Father and the Son are one Spirit and function as one Spirit then to see one is to see the other since they are both one Spirit and function as one Spirit, one Holy Spirit.

The verse that you quoted is partially what will happen now (indwelling of the HS) and what will happen later (at that day). Look at verses 19 and 20.
19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
The apostles will see Him because He lives and so will they but "at that day" they will know that Jesus is in the Father just as the apostles are in Him and Him in the apostles. This string of verses are a great representation of the Trinity. Each is a distinct person but united in substance.

That “substance” is the Holy Spirit that unites them.

If the Holy Spirit is the Father and the Son dwelling in us then we become one with the Father and the Son through the “substance” of the Holy Spirit dwelling in us. Any person in whom the Holy Spirit dwells becomes united with the Father and the Son through the “substance” of the Holy Spirit dwelling in them.

For through Him (Christ) we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. - Eph 2:18.

For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body - 1 Cor 12:13.

There is one body and one Spirit - Eph 4:4.

The "body" of God is the Spirit "substance" of God. We become a part of that Spirit "body" by the indwelling of that Spirit "substance".

No, each one is a distinct person since each is referred to as a person. Each has all the basic elements and/or powers of personhood: mind, will, and feeling.

If the Holy Spirit is God (Father and Son) then the Holy Spirit will have the personhood of God (Father and Son).

The Father is a person.

I agree.

The Son is a person.

I agree.

The Holy Spirit is a person.

The Holy Spirit is not a single person. His personhood is the personhood of God (Father and Son) being expressed through one Spirit, the Holy Spirit.

And in Him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by His Spirit. - Eph 2:22.

God (Father and Son) lives in us by the indwelling of His Spirit. The Holy Spirit dwelling in us is God (Father and Son) living in us. Therefore, the Holy Spirit is the personhood of God (Father and Son).

In addition of being referred to as a person ("He", 'His"),

That’s because God (Father and Son) is Masculine.

all of the elements of personhood are attributed to the HS in scripture.

That’s because the Holy Spirit is the personhood of God (Father and Son).

He has a mind

The mind of God (Father and Son).

He has will

The will of God (Father and Son).

He has feeling

The feeling of God (Father and Son).

The activities of a person are also attributed to the HS, He seaches, knows, speaks, testifies, reveals, convinces, commands, strives, moves, helps, guides, creates, recreates, sanctifies, inspires, intercedes, orders the affairs of the church, and performs miracles.

That's because the Holy Spirit is God (Father and Son) in action:

You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. - Rom 8:9-10.

Notice that the "Spirit of God" is also the "Spirit of Christ".

Also, notice that if the Spirit is in you then “Christ is in you”.

Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? - 1 Cor 3:16.

We are the temple of God (Father and Son) because the Spirit of God (Father and Son) lives in us. The Holy Spirit is the Father and the Son living in us as one Spirit, one Holy Spirit.

 

[interpreter]

I vote for God being either two or nine entities, because there are 7 holy spirits (See Rev. 1:4; 4:5).

 

[Der Alte]

That's because the Holy Spirit is God (Father and Son) in action:

You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. - Rom 8:9-10.

Notice that the "Spirit of God" is also the "Spirit of Christ".

Also, notice that if the Spirit is in you then “Christ is in you”.

Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? - 1 Cor 3:16.

We are the temple of God (Father and Son) because the Spirit of God (Father and Son) lives in us. The Holy Spirit is the Father and the Son living in us as one Spirit, one Holy Spirit.

Anti-Trinitarians teach that there is no Trinity, God is not Triune. However, Jesus said that, The Father; the Son, Jesus himself; and the Holy Spirit had separate and distinct “selves,” Jn 5:19, 20, 26; 16:13.

Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself [εαυτου]; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;​

In this verse, Joh 5:26, Jesus speaks of two separate and distinct “selves.” One “self,” the Father, gives to the other “self,” the Son.

G1438 εαυτου heautou heh-ow-too'

(Including all the other cases); from a reflexive pronoun otherwise obsolete and the genitive (dative or accusative) of G846; him (her, it, them, also [in conjunction with the personal pronoun of the other persons] my, thy, our, your) -self (-selves), etc.: - alone, her (own, -self), (he) himself, his (own), itself, one (to) another, our (thine) own (-selves), + that she had, their (own, own selves), (of) them (-selves), they, thyself, you, your (own, own conceits, own selves, -selves).​

Joh 16:27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.[/indent]
In this verse, Joh 16:27, Jesus again refers to the Father having a “self,” as distinct from Jesus.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he,the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself [εαυτου]; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.​

In this verse, Joh 16:13, Jesus clearly indicates that the Spirit has a “self,” using the same word, “himself,” He used to distinguish between, Jesus, himself, and the Father.

“Oneness,” and other anti-Trinitarians, teach that the Holy Spirit is not a person, but it is “the mind, energy, power, force, influence,” etc., of God or “God himself. “ If that is true, in John 16:13,

1. Who does God, speak from if not from God?
2. Who does God, hear from if not from God?
3. Who tells God, of things to come in the future, if not God?

If the anti-Trinitarian doctrine is correct then the Christians at Ephesus did not know that God even had a spirit.

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who [Christ] through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?​

The “self,” of Christ distinguished from “the eternal spirit,” and from “God.” And note the clear distinction of the Triune God, 1. the blood of Christ, 2. the eternal Spirit, and 3. the living God?

Does the word, himself somehow have a different meaning in this verse, than it does in John 5:26, which seems to have a different meaning in John 16:13, according to anti-Trinitarian teaching?

 

[Der Alte]

I vote for God being either two or nine entities, because there are 7 holy spirits (See Rev. 1:4; 4:5).

An out-of-context proof text!

Isa 11:2 And the [1] spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, [2] the spirit of wisdom and [3] understanding, the [4] spirit of counsel and [5] might, [6] the spirit of knowledge and [7] of the fear of the LORD;​

 

[interpreter]

An out-of-context proof text!

Isa 11:2 And the [1] spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, [2] the spirit of wisdom and [3] understanding, the [4] spirit of counsel and [5] might, [6] the spirit of knowledge and [7] of the fear of the LORD;​

Wrong. The seven spirits are decribed in ch. 4 as 7 lamps of fire in front of God's throne in heaven, that presumably come down from heaven and sit atop the 7 golden lampstands of the vision of ch. 1 which are the seven Churches (or Patriarchates) created by the apsotolic Church, and pointed to by the starguide.

 

[Der Alte]

I vote for God being either two or nine entities, because there are 7 holy spirits (See Rev. 1:4; 4:5).

Wrong. The seven spirits are decribed in ch. 4 as 7 lamps of fire in front of God's throne in heaven, that presumably come down from heaven and sit atop the 7 golden lampstands of the vision of ch. 1 which are the seven Churches (or Patriarchates) created by the apsotolic Church, and pointed to by the starguide.

You call me wrong when you have two different arguments here. Which is it, "God is a nine spirit being, because of the seven spirits in Rev.?" Or, "The seven spirits in Rev. are lampstands/churches?" Let me know when you get your argument straight? And OBTW scripture is never wrong!

 

[2ducklow]

considering that the bible says that God is one (something we all agree on), and considering that the thread title is "Is god two or Three?"

how about "How many is one?", instead of the current thread title "Is god two or three?" Seems more appropriate considering all the various opinons. one says it's two, another 3, another says it's 7 or 9, and one fella said it's 4. Sorta reminds me of the song by Arlo Guthrie, "You can get anything you want at Alice's restaurant, OH yea!. '

Just change the words to this but keep the same tune,

"one can be anything you want in orthodox theology, OH yea!".

come on everybody lets sing it all together now.

"One can be anything you want in orthodox theology OH yea!"
It can be 7 or 9 or 3 or 4 doesn't matter as long as it's not 1.
one can be anything you want in orthodox theology, OH yea!
exceptin one, one can be anytbing you want in orthodox theology !"


So, anybody got any new theories as to how many one is?

 

[Doveaman]

considering that the bible says that God is one (something we all agree on), and considering that the thread title is "Is god two or Three?"

how about "How many is one?", instead of the current thread title "Is god two or three?" Seems more appropriate considering all the various opinons. one says it's two, another 3, another says it's 7 or 9, and one fella said it's 4. Sorta reminds me of the song by Arlo Guthrie, "You can get anything you want at Alice's restaurant, OH yea!. '

Just change the words to this but keep the same tune,

"one can be anything you want in orthodox theology, OH yea!".

come on everybody lets sing it all together now.

"One can be anything you want in orthodox theology OH yea!"
It can be 7 or 9 or 3 or 4 doesn't matter as long as it's not 1.
one can be anything you want in orthodox theology, OH yea!
exceptin one, one can be anytbing you want in orthodox theology!"

So, anybody got any new theories as to how many one is?

I'm trying to work it out on my calculator, but I'm not sure how to start.

 

[Der Alte]

considering that the bible says that God is one (something we all agree on), and considering that the thread title is "Is god two or Three?"

how about "How many is one?", instead of the current thread title "Is god two or three?" Seems more appropriate considering all the various opinons. one says it's two, another 3, another says it's 7 or 9, and one fella said it's 4. Sorta reminds me of the song by Arlo Guthrie, "You can get anything you want at Alice's restaurant, OH yea!. '

Just change the words to this but keep the same tune,

"one can be anything you want in orthodox theology, OH yea!".

come on everybody lets sing it all together now.

"One can be anything you want in orthodox theology OH yea!"
It can be 7 or 9 or 3 or 4 doesn't matter as long as it's not 1.
one can be anything you want in orthodox theology, OH yea!
exceptin one, one can be anytbing you want in orthodox theology !"

So, anybody got any new theories as to how many one is?

It makes just as much sense this way.

¿sı ǝuo ʎuɐɯ ʍoɥ oʇ sɐ sǝıɹoǝɥʇ ʍǝu ʎuɐ ʇoƃ ʎpoqʎuɐ 'os

,,¡ ʎƃoloǝɥʇ xopoɥʇɹo uı ʇuɐʍ noʎ ƃuıqʇʎuɐ ǝq uɐɔ ǝuo 'ǝuo uıʇdǝɔxǝ
¡ɐǝʎ ɥo 'ʎƃoloǝɥʇ xopoɥʇɹo uı ʇuɐʍ noʎ ƃuıɥʇʎuɐ ǝq uɐɔ ǝuo
˙⇂ ʇou s,ʇı sɐ ƃuol sɐ ɹǝʇʇɐɯ ʇ,usǝop ㄣ ɹo ᄐ ɹo 6 ɹo ㄥ ǝq uɐɔ ʇı
,,¡ɐǝʎ ɥo ʎƃoloǝɥʇ xopoɥʇɹo uı ʇuɐʍ noʎ ƃuıɥʇʎuɐ ǝq uɐɔ ǝuo,,

˙ʍou ɹǝɥʇǝƃoʇ llɐ ʇı ƃuıs sʇǝl ʎpoqʎɹǝʌǝ uo ǝɯoɔ

˙,,¡ɐǝʎ ɥo 'ʎƃoloǝɥʇ xopoɥʇɹo uı ʇuɐʍ noʎ ƃuıɥʇʎuɐ ǝq uɐɔ ǝuo,,

'ǝunʇ ǝɯɐs ǝɥʇ dǝǝʞ ʇnq sıɥʇ oʇ spɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ǝƃuɐɥɔ ʇsnɾ

, ˙¡ɐǝʎ ɥo 'ʇuɐɹnɐʇsǝɹ s,ǝɔılɐ ʇɐ ʇuɐʍ noʎ ƃuıɥʇʎuɐ ʇǝƃ uɐɔ noʎ,, 'ǝıɹɥʇnƃ olɹɐ ʎq ƃuos ǝɥʇ ɟo ǝɯ spuıɯǝɹ ɐʇɹos ˙ㄣ s,ʇı pıɐs ɐllǝɟ ǝuo puɐ '6 ɹo ㄥ s,ʇı sʎɐs ɹǝɥʇouɐ 'ᄐ ɹǝɥʇouɐ 'oʍʇ s,ʇı sʎɐs ǝuo ˙suouıdo snoıɹɐʌ ǝɥʇ llɐ ƃuıɹǝpısuoɔ ǝʇɐıɹdoɹddɐ ǝɹoɯ sɯǝǝs ,,¿ǝǝɹɥʇ ɹo oʍʇ poƃ sı,, ǝlʇıʇ pɐǝɹɥʇ ʇuǝɹɹnɔ ǝɥʇ ɟo pɐǝʇsuı ',,¿ǝuo sı ʎuɐɯ ʍoɥ,, ʇnoqɐ ʍoɥ

,,¿ǝǝɹɥʇ ɹo oʍʇ poƃ sı,, sı ǝlʇıʇ pɐǝɹɥʇ ǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıɹǝpısuoɔ puɐ '(uo ǝǝɹƃɐ llɐ ǝʍ ƃuıɥʇǝɯos) ǝuo sı poƃ ʇɐɥʇ sʎɐs ǝlqıq ǝɥʇ ʇɐɥʇ ƃuıɹǝpısuoɔ
​

 

[2ducklow]

I'm trying to work it out on my calculator, but I'm not sure how to start.

Ah, you're using the wrong instrument. a calculator is for arithmetic. What you need is an orthoculator (orthodox calculator) to do orthotic (orthodox math).

 

[cubinity]

If oneness is always interpreted as just one individual, rather than a concept of unity, then Jesus' prayer in John 17 means he wants us to discover that we are all actually just the same person, and not distinct individuals united, just as he and his Father are actually the same individual, and not unified people.

"...I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one..." - John 17:20b-21a

That seems like a really weird interpretation of the human condition, if you read it that way.

Or, maybe oneness refers to unity, and not to the number of people involved.

 

[Doveaman]

Ah, you're using the wrong instrument. a calculator is for arithmetic. What you need is an orthoculator (orthodox calculator) to do orthotic (orthodox math).

How exactly does that calculate God? Care to demonstrate so I can know it's working correctly?

 

[Doveaman]

Anti-Trinitarians teach that there is no Trinity, God is not Triune.

I do not consider myself an anti-Trinitarian. I simply define the Trinity differently from what is considered orthodox.

However, Jesus said that, The Father; the Son, Jesus himself; and the Holy Spirit had separate and distinct “selves,” Jn 5:19, 20, 26; 16:13.

John 5:19-20:
19. Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; He can do only what He sees His Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
20. For the Father loves the Son and shows Him all He does. Yes, to your amazement He will show Him even greater things than these.

This is referring to God as He is revealed singularly as Father or Son, the two distinct persons who exist as the one God being.

John 5:26:
26. For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself.

The life which both the Father and the Son have in themselves is the life of the Holy Spirit, they are both one and the same Spirit in nature and substance, one Holy Spirit being. And as God (Father and Son) they both live in us as one Holy Spirit:

In Him (the Son) you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by His Spirit. - Eph 2:22.

The Holy Spirit in us is God (Father and Son) living in us.

In this verse, Joh 16:13, Jesus clearly indicates that the Spirit has a “self,” using the same word, “himself,” He used to distinguish between, Jesus, himself, and the Father.

The distinction has to do with the fact that the Spirit is not just the Father or just the Son, He is both. God reveals Himself singularly as Father or Son, and He also reveals Himself plurally as Father and Son in the form of the Holy Spirit.

“Oneness,” and other anti-Trinitarians, teach that the Holy Spirit is not a person, but it is “the mind, energy, power, force, influence,” etc., of God or “God himself. “

If the Holy Spirit is the nature and substance of God then the Holy Spirit is the person of God, because the person of God is God in nature and substance.

If that is true, in John 16:13,
1. Who does God, speak from if not from God?
2. Who does God, hear from if not from God?
3. Who tells God, of things to come in the future, if not God?

John 16:13-15:
13. But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on His own;

This means that the Spirit of truth will “speak” as the plural Father and Son, and not as a singular person. Christ is making the point that when the Spirit “speaks” it is the Father and Son who is speaking.

13. He will speak only what He hears,

What the Spirit “hears” is what is spoken between the Father and the Son, which is then reveal to us through their Spirit.

Notice that Christ here is using figure of speech by the use of the terms “speak” and “hears”. The Holy Spirit does not generally speak to us to give us understanding, He inspires us with understanding. The term “speak” is only a figure of speech. Similarly, the term “hears” is also a figure of speech as well.

13. and He will tell you what is yet to come.
14. He will bring glory to Me by taking from what is Mine and making it known to you.
15. All that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is Mine and make it known to you.

Again, the term “take from” is only a figure of speech. Christ is simply making the point that all that He and the Father wants us to know will be revealed to us through their Spirit. The Father reveals Himself to us through the Son and the Son reveals Himself to us through the one Spirit. Therefore, all that the Father and Son has and does is revealed to us through the one Holy Spirit. The Father and the Son exist and function as one Holy Spirit and reveal themselves to us as one Holy Spirit being.

For through Him (the Son) we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. - Eph 2:18.

If the anti-Trinitarian doctrine is correct then the Christians at Ephesus did not know that God even had a spirit.
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

This maybe because they never thought of God as a Holy Spirit they could receive or having a Holy Spirit they could receive. This lack of knowledge on their part doesn’t negate God Himself being the Holy Spirit. It maybe that they just didn’t fully understand God’s nature.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who [Christ] through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
The “self,” of Christ distinguished from “the eternal spirit,” and from “God.” And note the clear distinction of the Triune God, 1. the blood of Christ, 2. the eternal Spirit, and 3. the living God?

It is expected that all that the Father and Son does is done through the Holy Spirit since they both are one and the same Holy Spirit, therefore they can only function through the Holy Spirit since the Holy Spirit is their very nature and substance.

The distinction between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is that the Father or Son are the two singularly persons of God and the Holy Spirit is the one plural person of God (Father and Son).

Does the word, himself somehow have a different meaning in this verse, than it does in John 5:26, which seems to have a different meaning in John 16:13, according to anti-Trinitarian teaching?

I don’t know, I’m not an anti-Trinitarian. To me it makes no difference, since God is revealed as a singular “self” in the form of Father or Son, as well as a plural “self” in the form of Holy Spirit.

An example of the plural “self” of God is found in Genesis 1:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters...Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness...

Here we see God being revealed plurally in the form of one Spirit, one Holy Spirit.

Since the Holy Spirit is the plural “self” of God (Father and Son) then everything the Holy Spirit says and does is from the Father and Son, because the Father and Son are one and the same Holy Spirit.

 

[Doveaman]

If oneness is always interpreted as just one individual, rather than a concept of unity, then Jesus' prayer in John 17 means he wants us to discover that we are all actually just the same person, and not distinct individuals united, just as he and his Father are actually the same individual, and not unified people.

"...I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one..." - John 17:20b-21a

That seems like a really weird interpretation of the human condition, if you read it that way.

Or, maybe oneness refers to unity, and not to the number of people involved.

Since the Father and Son are one Holy Spirit then everyone in whom the Holy Spirit dwells become one with the Father and Son through the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the unity is the unity of the Holy Spirit. This is why we are to "Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit." - Eph 4:3.

 

[cubinity]

Since the Father and Son are one Holy Spirit then everyone in whom the Holy Spirit dwells become one with the Father and Son through the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the unity is the unity of the Holy Spirit. This is why we are to "Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit." - Eph 4:3.

Okay. Sounds good to me.

 

[2ducklow]

How exactly does that calculate God? Care to demonstrate so I can know it's working correctly?

I never use an orthoculator, you''ll have to ask one of the experts on the use of orthoculators. I only use calculators. Sorry.

 

[interpreter]

You call me wrong when you have two different arguments here. Which is it, "God is a nine spirit being, because of the seven spirits in Rev.?" Or, "The seven spirits in Rev. are lampstands/churches?" Let me know when you get your argument straight? And OBTW scripture is never wrong!

I didn't say the 7 spirits are lampstands or Churches. The 7 Holy Spirits are reepresented by 7 lamps. The Holy spirit shined its light through the teachings of the 7 Apostolic Churches in the 7 parts of the earth that are pointed to by the 7 Asian churches.