Is God self-centered or something?

[Amoranemix]

First off, I had to decide that regardless, I will worship God because He is worthy, and He did send His son for me. But did He only send His son so that I could worship Him for ever? Doesn’t that sound “Self-Centered”? It’s scary to ask those kind of questions because we feel like we are disrespecting God, so when they come to mind we seem to push them away and pretend we didn’t think them. Want to know a little secret? God already knows that we thought them
[*], and He can handle us asking Him. It’s also foolish to wait untill we see Him face to face to “give Him a piece of our mind”. But hey, at least this agnostic was honest.

[*] I'm glad God doesn't exist, because I wouldn't want him to violate my privacy.

But about two months ago I really just decided to ask God this question, and I found myself in the book of Genesis where He first created us[1]. Why did He do it? What did He say? I could post the whole first two chapters of Genesis up here, but that would make this entry even longer than it already is. Read it yourself if you want here, but I’ll just summarise very briefly. After He had created all of the animals and the earth itself, He said “Let us create man in our own image, in our likeness.” When He talked to Adam, He never said “Worship me, cause I’m so great!” He simply gave Him dominion over the entire earth. And you know, Adam didn’t have a religion, He really had a relationship with God. He walked with God in the garden… isn’t that crazy? Walking with God? Like you walk with a friend?[2]

[1] It is telling that God won't simply answer the question. [2] God and Adam didn't appear close to me. He seems to have been Adam's caretaker, like a father figure.

You know, I think sometimes in Christianity the impression is given that when God decided to make us His thought process was something like this: “ Man, I’m really awesome… in fact, I’m so awesome that I need to make a bunch of people to surround me forever to tell me how awesome I am !! In fact, I’ll make it so that when people refer to me as “him” they have to capitalize the H!!! Ha ha!! Man I’m good… Oh yeah, who’s the man? Oh excuse me, Who’s the GOD!! ” Well biblically, that’s not quite how it happened.[1] When you think of the fact that “God is Love”[2], and that “Love is selfless”, and “considers others above/before itself”, that does not make sense… He would not do it for that reason.[3] So why did He create us?[4]

[1] Maybe that is how it happened. [2] That God is Love is not a fact. It is a hollow phrase used to illicit loyalty and obedience. [3] Why not ? [4] Perhaps to punish people. He arranged for people to sin, which according to Christians deserves punishment. So he is worshipped by those who beg for forgiveness and he gets to punish those who don't.

Were we really created to Worship God and go recruit a bunch of other people to Worship Him? No, we were created to know God. You see, God is so Good, and so Loving that He wanted someone to give His Love(Or rather, Himself) to. I don’t know if anyone noticed this before, but Adam did not worship God until after He sinned. Before He sinned, it was all relationship, no ceremonies…[1] nothing between us and God. The Religious parts of Judaism and Christianity are all the result of Sin. Now God is worthy of Worship[2], and because of that reason alone we should Worship Him. Get that straight first. But that is not why He created us, He created us to give Himself to us… to bless us in a way we can not comprehend[3].

[1] Adam was not raised to realize gods are supposed to be worshipped. He acquired that knowledge after the first human sin. [2] Can you prove that ? [3] I admit he succeeded at least partially : I don't comprehend his blessing.

If you want to think of a scenerio that we as Humans could understand, think of it this way. Love needs an object of affection, or it is not Love. God is Love, so we are His object of affection. He wants to know and have relationship with each and every one of us… not a religious system where we recruit converts to recruit more converts to recruit… etc[1]. Worship is a response to the fact that, even after we turned our back on Him, He gave Himself completely(literally) just so He could be with us[2]!! You see, He is not just Love, He is also Holy. Because He is Holy He can not dwell with sin, He can not have a true relationship with a sinfull fallen being.[3] So what did He do? He gave Himself completely to redeem us and bring us back to the condition that He created us in origionally… His image, His likeness.[2]

[1] That religious system is more likely a tool to achieve his goal, not a goal in itself. [2] To who did he give himself completely and who is 'us' ? [3] Why is that ? Is he not omnipotent ?

You see, everything God asks us to do now… worship, evangelism.[1] It’s all just the result of His origional desire to be with us.[2] The more He restores us to His image, the more we realize how amazing He is and want to worship Him.[3] The more we become loving people as He is a Loving God, the less self-centered we become and the more we want to share His Love with others. He really is a Love beyond all reason… like that song that we have been singing lately, it’s really the heart of God. I want to give God praise in everything I do, my praise goes out to Him, because He’s worth it, He gave more than I could ever give back. He is not self-centered, if anything His Love is centered on us. Each and every one of us.[4]

[1] That is indeed something he appears to desire, although you have been denying it so far. [2] He can be with me without me worshipping him or evangelizing for him. [3] Then he hasn't started yet restoring me to his image. What does that mean, restoring me to God's image ? [4] Statements like that clearly indicate that 'us' does not include me.

So no Mr. Agnostic, God is not self-centered.

Your god apparently only wants to befriend himself with people you refer to as us, which has the side effect that you naturally want to worship him. (One wonders then why the priest tells you to worship him.) That is not the god most Christians or the Bible are describing me.

But, in no way am I trying to water down scripture, or paint God how I want Him to be.[1] I fully acknowledge and accept how seriously God takes sin, which is why I'm glad He allowed His entire wrath to be satisfied on Himself.[2]

[1] Too late; you already did. [2] That illustrates the bias for God you share with other Christians. You commend God for his virtues while you don't even recognise his flaws as such.

What if heaven is not only God giving himself to us (as a husband gives himself to his wife) but us giving ourselves to him (as a wife gives herself to her husband) to become one in Spirit with him. We won't become gods, but we will be privy to his thoughts and actions like never before because we will have become unified with him as Jesus is unified with him. Could oneness with God actually be portrayed by the earthly shadow of marriage, and marital intimacy?

If I were a woman I wouldn't like having to share my husband with 6.000.000.000 other women. In addition, I am a straight guy. Your god takes polygamy too far for my taste.

It's an odd image to portray. If I told you, "I want to have kids so that they will love me," I sound like I'm having kids for the wrong reason. You have kids to give them love, not take it.

I think people have kids to receive love, although they may claim they have kids to give love.

Well... all I can say is, don't let Christians stop you [TeddyKGB] from seeing Christ.

Before I frequented Christians I didn't see Christ either.

It's absurd to think that man can understand the complexity of God, and I only see someone as a rude bigot when they refuse to listen, or don't respond when their "truth" is clearly disproven, and continue to claim it as truth.

You are talking about CF staff, aren't you ?