Is Freemasonry really Satanic?

circuitrider said:

I think you are going to have to be a lot more specific than that. I find nothing in the gospels to oppose Masonic membership.

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The issue may be syncretism.

JM said:

The issue may be syncretism.

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I don't see it JM. I'm a United Methodist pastor and a Freemason. I've been ordained for almost 30 years and I've been a Mason for 18 years.

Greetings all, first post.

Freemasonry is absolutely satanic. I have personally seen the effects it has on individuals and families through healing & deliverance ministry. As mentioned by others every degree invokes "rites" that use, "God Architect of the Universe) GAOTU and a man named "Hiram Abiff", at the highest levels it is revealed that these are just references to Satan.

A close mentor of mine has written books outlining the dangers of freemasonry and has interviewed several former masons including 33rd degree masons. It is not something you want to mess with. Yes, Jesus is greater, but it's simply not worth it to poke around freemasonry.

topher694 said:

Greetings all, first post.

Freemasonry is absolutely satanic.

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People make claims like this all the time. But I never see anything to substantiate it. In the US the majority of Masons are Christians of one denomination or another. I've read numerous anti-masonic articles, several books, lots of websites. They are full of falsehoods, half-truths, innuendo, poor theology, etc. Anyone can claim anything is Satanic from their arm chair on the internet. Anyone can write anything on a website.

And people make claims all the time that God isn't real, and Jesus is a myth.

I have seen it first hand, just as I have seen God is real and experienced the love of Christ.

Simply giving my 2 cents.

topher694 said:

And people make claims all the time that God isn't real, and Jesus is a myth.

I have seen it first hand, just as I have seen God is real and experienced the love of Christ.

Simply giving my 2 cents.

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I know God is real and have experienced Christ’s love. But again, claiming something is Satanic is a pretty serious thing to say about any organization or group of people without offering more than, “a friend wrote a book and I’ve seen it.”

This is what I get most all the time when someone makes these claim. Lots of claims, heart felt claims, but no proof.

circuitrider said:

I know God is real and have experienced Christ’s love. But again, claiming something is Satanic is a pretty serious thing to say about any organization or group of people without offering more than, “a friend wrote a book and I’ve seen it.”

This is what I get most all the time when someone makes these claim. Lots of claims, heart felt claims, but no proof.

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I take what I have experienced extremely seriously, I've seen the negative effects, hence the language. If someone were to ask me if Jesus is real, I would also reply "Absolutely", not "well I think so" or, "In my opinion, yeah"

A question was asked that I happen to have direct experience with. I answered it based on that experience. And you come in dropping the "proof" hammer on anything you don't agree with. What to you would constitute proof anyway? My guess is nothing would be good enough.

I thought this was a place for open discussion, appears I was wrong.

topher694 said:

I take what I have experienced extremely seriously, I've seen the negative effects, hence the language. If someone were to ask me if Jesus is real, I would also reply "Absolutely", not "well I think so" or, "In my opinion, yeah"

A question was asked that I happen to have direct experience with. I answered it based on that experience. And you come in dropping the "proof" hammer on anything you don't agree with. What to you would constitute proof anyway? My guess is nothing would be good enough.

I thought this was a place for open discussion, appears I was wrong.

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Something other than an unsubstantiated claim. That isn't that much to ask as a member of an organization that has been declared "Satanic" because you say so.

A place of open discussion shouldn't be a place where people can made baseless claims.

circuitrider said:

Something other than an unsubstantiated claim. That isn't that much to ask as a member of an organization that has been declared "Satanic" because you say so.

A place of open discussion shouldn't be a place where people can made baseless claims.

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And you are the final authority on what is a baseless claim? In a place of open discussion talking about my experience should not be considered baseless, clearly your experience is of more value that someone who is new.

You sir are a bully. I have no time or need to deal with this kind of attack. (And that is exactly what it is. my "proof", btw, is above). I'm leaving this place for good after 1 hour, thanks for the wonderful experience and loving, Christ-like environment.

circuitrider said:

I think you are going to have to be a lot more specific than that. I find nothing in the gospels to oppose Masonic membership.

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That reply was to the direct words of that post, not freemasonry.
However, from personal experience of doing deliverance, I have many times cast demons out of those involved in freemasonry, or whose parents were involved.

The higher levels of Freemasonry particularly involve swearing oaths and curses that empower demons over the applicant.

topher694 said:

And you are the final authority on what is a baseless claim? In a place of open discussion talking about my experience should not be considered baseless, clearly your experience is of more value that someone who is new.

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If you have at least graduated from High School (I don't know your age) you would know that a baseless claim is one where you assert something like "Freemasonry is Satanic" without offering any "basis" that is "evidence" for the claim.

It is no small thing for a Christian to accuse many thousands of fellow Christians, pastors, priests, and leaders of being followers of Satan without being willing to offer any proof or a single stitch of evidence. I've accused you of nothing other than being unwilling to tell me a single reason why you know/believe that Masons follow Satan.

Against my better judgement...

circuitrider said:

If you have at least graduated from High School (I don't know your age) you would know that a baseless claim is one where you assert something like "Freemasonry is Satanic" without offering any "basis" that is "evidence" for the claim.

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So, now we've devolved to name calling? Whose the immature one? I am actually a pastor and a senior software engineer. You attack my intelligence while you yourself have engaged in at least 3 logical fallacies.

Ad Hominem Fallacy - If you have at least graduated High School you would know...

Straw Man & Appeal To Ignorance - Twisting my statement (which should completely valid to express) expressing my opinion and experience into something it wasn't then requiring proof to fit the narrative you created.

circuitrider said:

It is no small thing for a Christian to accuse many thousands of fellow Christians, pastors, priests, and leaders of being followers of Satan without being willing to offer any proof or a single stitch of evidence. I've accused you of nothing other than being unwilling to tell me a single reason why you know/believe that Masons follow Satan.

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So, where is your proof that there are thousands of Christians, pastors, priests and leaders actively involved with freemasonry? You make a bold declaration of all of these people's affiliations without a single stitch of evidence to back it up?

As for your proof on Masonry, as a pastor I cannot share what others have said to me in confidence or what they have experienced during counseling sessions, something you should know better than to demand from anyone, pastor or not. However here is a statement that is public from a former mason, Edmond Ronayne:

"All my experience in and out of Masonic Lodges has gone to establish the fact in my mind that Freemasonry, in all its departments, is the most corrupt and wicked, and contains the greatest amount of falsehood of any other institution on the face of the globe. It is positively and absolutely selfish in every single element of its pagan composition, and can truthfully lay no more claim to charity, benevolence or goodness of any other name or description than could say, the heathen organizations which Christian civilization has long since banished from the world"

Further:
The secret name of the Deity of Masonry is JAHBULON
JAH = A Hebrew shortened word for Jehovah
BUL = Syrian word meaning "Lord" or "Powerful"
OH = an abbreviation for the Egyptian god Osiris, god of the underworld
Powerful Lord of the underworld who wants to be Jehovah (who does that sound like?)

It's not proof, but it is evidence that completely lines up with my personal experience.

Thank you for actually responding with something you believe to be evidence about Freemasonry. Why couldn't you have actually started with that rather than, "Freemasons are Satanists, won't tell you why...."??

As to my assertion that thousands of Christians are involved in Freemasonry, the majority of the millions of members of the Masonic fraternity claim Christianity as their religious affiliation. Every lodge I've been a member of (eight in total Craft lodges) folks are made up of the same people I see at church on Sunday or know to attend and worship at other churches in the community. One of the lodges I was Master of the majority of the officers were members of my church. Remember stone Masons built the first cathedrals. Masonry started with men who built churches. Of course most of us are Christians.

One of the Past Grand Masters of Minnesota is a retired Methodist Pastor. One of the previous Grand Masters of Kansas was a Disciples Pastor and a Mason. One of the previous Grand Chaplains of Georgia is a pastor and a Mason. The person who wrote Anderson's constitutions on which many of our rules were based was a Presbyterian minister. Every church I've pastored in 30 years has men in it who are also Masons. Southern Baptists did a huge study on Freemasonry and found that something like 8-10% of all SBC pastors were Masons, at the time of the study. There are thousands of pastors in the SBC. That means hundreds of SBC clergy are Masons without counting any other denomination.

As to the the above supposed secret name of deity, sorry, that isn't it and there isn't one. It is no secret that Masons refer to God often as the Great Architect of the Universe, a title which was actually coined by John Calvin. We don't have a secret name for God. We don't need one, there are plenty of well known and clear names for God.

If you would like to actually know what Masonry teaches, I'd be happy to discuss that. If you aren't interested that is fine. But we aren't Satanists. I worship the same Jesus Christ you do and have for most of my life. I am also a member of the majority of Masonic organizations you can join.

You asked me if I was claiming to be some kind of expert. Albian here may be more an expert than I am. But I am most definitely a long time informed Mason and I know what Masonry is, teaches, and does.

Also against my better judgement.

The Masonic Lodge requires faith in a higher being; it does not specify who that "higher being" is; therefore it is polytheistic. Polytheism will tolerate or accept Christianity; but a Christian can never accept any expression of polytheism as valid. Therefore Christianity is at odds with the Masonic Lodge.

To shed the very best light on the Lodge from a Christian perspective, one might call it a "heretical" organization, but even that is a stretch. If it has a polytheistic membership and requires a faith in a deity; it is accepting of paganism. Paganism and Christianity are NOT compatible.

The fact that members of the lodge that proclaim Christianity dismiss this fact is in fact prime evidence of the devil at work.

Also the fact that members of the lodge that proclaim Christianity defend the lodge with so much zeal in an era where few would defend their faith in the face of adversity with as much enthusiasm should also raise a bunch of red flags for Christians.

circuitrider said:

Thank you for actually responding with something you believe to be evidence about Freemasonry. Why couldn't you have actually started with that rather than, "Freemasons are Satanists, won't tell you why...."??

As to my assertion that thousands of Christians are involved in Freemasonry, the majority of the millions of members of the Masonic fraternity claim Christianity as their religious affiliation. Every lodge I've been a member of (eight in total Craft lodges) folks are made up of the same people I see at church on Sunday or know to attend and worship at other churches in the community. One of the lodges I was Master of the majority of the officers were members of my church. Remember stone Masons built the first cathedrals. Masonry started with men who built churches. Of course most of us are Christians.

One of the Past Grand Masters of Minnesota is a retired Methodist Pastor. One of the previous Grand Masters of Kansas was a Disciples Pastor and a Mason. One of the previous Grand Chaplains of Georgia is a pastor and a Mason. The person who wrote Anderson's constitutions on which many of our rules were based was a Presbyterian minister. Every church I've pastored in 30 years has men in it who are also Masons. Southern Baptists did a huge study on Freemasonry and found that something like 8-10% of all SBC pastors were Masons, at the time of the study. There are thousands of pastors in the SBC. That means hundreds of SBC clergy are Masons without counting any other denomination.

As to the the above supposed secret name of deity, sorry, that isn't it and there isn't one. It is no secret that Masons refer to God often as the Great Architect of the Universe, a title which was actually coined by John Calvin. We don't have a secret name for God. We don't need one, there are plenty of well known and clear names for God.

If you would like to actually know what Masonry teaches, I'd be happy to discuss that. If you aren't interested that is fine. But we aren't Satanists. I worship the same Jesus Christ you do and have for most of my life. I am also a member of the majority of Masonic organizations you can join.

You asked me if I was claiming to be some kind of expert. Albian here may be more an expert than I am. But I am most definitely a long time informed Mason and I know what Masonry is, teaches, and does.

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MarkRohfrietsch said:

Also against my better judgement.

The Masonic Lodge requires faith in a higher being; it does not specify who that "higher being" is; therefore it is polytheistic.

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So are the Boy Scouts polytheistic? You are misusing the word "polytheist." We are expected to believe in a Supreme Being. There is no Supreme Being in polytheism. Not telling people what view of God to believe doesn't mean that the organization believes in all gods. It means that each Mason has his own religious choice to make just like the Boy Scouts.

As to the charge that Christian freemasons defend their Christianity too strongly, that is a strange charge. Christian freemasons are regularly attacked online most often by conservative or fundamentalist Christian groups. We get attacked and then get criticized for defending ourselves. "We are attacking you, why are you defending yourself!?"

By the way, Freemasonry is one of the few organizations I know of where non-Masons think they know more about what we teach and believe than our own membership does. If I asked a Baptist pastor what Baptists believe and he told his church's beliefs I'd not respond, "No, that's not what Baptists believe ...." If I'd heard something different I'd ask why, but I'd not assume a Baptist pastor doesn't know his own church's teachings.

Most of the time I don't post on this forum about Freemasonry. But I find the wild claims of Satanism, etc. so off the wall and crazy that, against my better judgement, I responded. That's probably a mistake.

So maybe a better direction be to take this would be to say that I'm happy to answer any questions about Freemasonry I can for anyone who wants to know the truth.

circuitrider said:

So are the Boy Scouts polytheistic? You are misusing the word "polytheist." We are expected to believe in a Supreme Being. There is no Supreme Being in polytheism. Not telling people what view of God to believe doesn't mean that the organization believes in all gods. It means that each Mason has his own religious choice to make just like the Boy Scouts.

As to the charge that Christian freemasons defend their Christianity too strongly, that is a strange charge. Christian freemasons are regularly attacked online most often by conservative or fundamentalist Christian groups. We get attacked and then get criticized for defending ourselves. "We are attacking you, why are you defending yourself!?"

By the way, Freemasonry is one of the few organizations I know of where non-Masons think they know more about what we teach and believe than our own membership does. If I asked a Baptist pastor what Baptists believe and he told his church's beliefs I'd not respond, "No, that's not what Baptists believe ...." If I'd heard something different I'd ask why, but I'd not assume a Baptist pastor doesn't know his own church's teachings.

Most of the time I don't post on this forum about Freemasonry. But I find the wild claims of Satanism, etc. so off the wall and crazy that, against my better judgement, I responded. That's probably a mistake.

So maybe a better direction be to take this would be to say that I'm happy to answer any questions about Freemasonry I can for anyone who wants to know the truth.

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Here in Canada, "fatith" is not a requirement in scouting; so no, it is not an issue.

If you don't like the term poly-theistic, then maybe "universalist" is more appropriate. Either way; neither are any more "Christian" than Vodo is.

MarkRohfrietsch said:

Here in Canada, "fatith" is not a requirement in scouting; so no, it is not an issue.

If you don't like the term poly-theistic, then maybe "universalist" is more appropriate. Either way; neither are any more "Christian" than Vodo is.

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No Freemasonry isn't Christian, just many of its members are Christian. Freemasonry is a fraternity. Universalism really doesn't apply because no Freemason is required to believe that people of any religion go to heaven. We don't tell people what to believe about their religious faith.

So it would be more appropriate to say that neither are any more Christian than the Kiwanis Club, the Rotary Club or the Chamber of Commerce.

circuitrider said:

So it would be more appropriate to say that neither are any more Christian than the Kiwanis Club, the Rotary Club or the Chamber of Commerce.

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I don't believe Freemasonry could be considered the equivalent to the above mentioned clubs, but more like a Trade Union, both include a level of secrecy and adherence to the group the above mentioned clubs do not. If you are in a Trade Union you often swear an oath, hold clandestine meetings and are required to hold to a set of beliefs that are contrary to scripture.

I belong to a Union but have avoided taking the oath. They also have chairs similar to that found in a Masonic Lodge. We have Christian employees who opt out of the Union representation and sub in a Christian Union in its place.

Yours in the Lord,

jm
PS: I'm from Ontario Canada - Union Land

JM said:

I don't believe Freemasonry could be considered the equivalent to the above mentioned clubs, but more like a Trade Union, both include a level of secrecy and adherence to the group the above mentioned clubs do not. If you are in a Trade Union you often swear an oath, hold clandestine meetings and are required to hold to a set of beliefs that are contrary to scripture.

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I don't mind the trade union analogy. But do remember that most Masons are no longer working stone Masons. We study the theories around architecture and stone masonry but I only know a couple of Freemasons that are actual stone Masons. We are primarily a social, charitable and educational organization.

As to holding beliefs that are contrary to scripture, I personally have never run across it in nearly 20 years as a Mason and I do have degrees in Biblical studies and theology as probably most of the pastors do on this forum. So I'm not uniformed about the Bible. I hold membership in the Craft lodge, the York Rite, the Scottish Rite and a fair number of related orders. So far nothing in any Masonic degree I have seen comes across to me as a contradiction of scripture.

However, you and I could easily hold views about scripture that differ from each other. For example, I know Christians who think they shouldn't worship with people from other denominations or take communion in a different kind of church while my denomination teaches that all that is ok. If you happen to belong to a denomination or church that believes that Christians shouldn't belong to organizations that have non-Christians in it that leaves out Freemasonry and whole rafts of other service organizations, clubs, etc.

Directly from Freemasonry material:

From the doctrinal book of Freemasonry, "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry" by Albert Pike, Grand Commander:

Its title page states that it was prepared for the "Supreme Council of the Thirty-Third Degree and Published by its Authority."

"It [Masonry] is the universal, eternal, immutable religion, such as God planted it in the heart of universal humanity. No creed has ever been long-lived that was not built on this foundation. It is the base and they are the superstructure." (page 219)

"Masonry, around whose altars the Christian, the Hebrew, the Moslem, the Brahmin, the followers of Confucius and Zoroaster, can assemble as brethren and unite in prayer to the one God who is above ALL the Ballim, must needs leave it to each of its initiates to look for the foundation of his faith and hope to the written scriptures of his own religion." (page 226)

"Everything good in nature comes from OSIRIS - order, harmony, and the favorable temperature of the seasons and celestial periods." (page 476)

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them, but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them." (page 819)

"The teachers, even of Christianity, are, in general the most ignorant of the true meaning of that which they teach. There is no book of which so little is known as the Bible. To most who read it, it is as incomprehensible as the Sohar." (page 105)

Other Mason Material:
"Man is a god in the making, and as in the mystic myths of Egypt, on the potter's wheel he is being molded. When his light shines out to lift and preserve all things, he receives the triple crown of godhood and joins that throng of Master Masons who, in their robes of Blue and Gold, are seeking to dispel the darkness of night with the triple light of the Masonic Lodge." (The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, Manly P. Hall, pages 92, 54-55)

"When the Mason learns that the Key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the Mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of LUCIFER are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply [this] energy." (Lost Keys of Freemasonry, Manly P. Hall, page 48)