Is faith a gift that only God can give us? (Note: I have an answer, but I would like input).

[Bible Highlighter]

They're not disagreeing with Jesus, they're disagreeing with you. The problem is with your demeanor. You are talking to your peers. Your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. You are not Jesus talking to children of the devil (John 8:44) which is apparently what you equate them with considering you wrote:

I'd suggest getting off the high horse you appear to be on. Unless you enjoy lots of needless bickering. But I doubt I'm saying anything that hasn't been said already. So I'm going to take my leave of it.

What if I am correct? Have you ever thought about that, my friend?
Would that change your perspective on my posts?

As for claim that I my demeanor is not acceptable or good:

First, I have already spoken in this thread to those who hold to Belief Alone-ism or a Sin and Still Be Saved Type Belief as brethren, and I also wish them blessings and peace from the Lord.

Second, prove your case by pointing out specific words in my posts (Note: show post #'s) that show that my demeanor is as bad as you say. Note: My quoting Scripture to attack a wrong belief cannot be regarded as a wrong demeanor but it is simply negating a wrong belief. It is nothing personal by any means. If you suggest by my demeanor is not acceptable I need to know about those specific words that you find to be wrong that you find to be hurtful in a personal way (not related to Scripture). If such is the case, I will apologize. Again, your issue cannot be the case I make with Scripture on what I believe is a wrong belief held by many in Christianity. It is simply the Word of God and my viewpoint of how it normally reads.

So far, those who believe similiar to my view on sin and salvation do not have a problem with my demeanor. There is no tone of voice that can be heard in my writings that can be heard the wrong way.

In any event, we can agree to disagree in love and respect.
May you be well in the Lord, and stay safe (even if we do not agree on all of the Scriptures).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yeah, possibly it can be refering to grace...

“Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.” (Ephesians 3:7).

“But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.” (Ephesians 4:7).

Jesus = Grace.
More on this point in my next post.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yeah, possibly it can be refering to grace...

While grace is an attribute of the Lord Jesus Christ because Scripture says He is full of grace and truth (John 1:14), this attribute is not something that is separate from who He is as a person. God is spirit (John 4:24). But the spirit is not distinct from who is as a person anymore than grace is distinct from who is as a person. Ephesians 2:8 says we are saved by God's grace through faith, it is the gift of God. This gift is Jesus Christ. For God so loved the world that he GAVE His only begotten Son (John 3:16). Jesus said "I am the bread of life." (John 6:35). Jesus is speaking in spiritual terms. He is not saying he is actual physical bread. Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth, and the LIFE." (John 14:6). In other words, Jesus is saying He is spiritual life (i.e. eternal life). 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life. So a person needs have to have the Son in order to have life and they cannot be saved without God's grace because true believers are saved by God's grace (like a gift) through faith. So Jesus is the source of salvation itself. Jesus is the source of grace itself. Grace is embodied in a person. God's grace is Jesus Christ.

"But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they." (Acts of the Apostles 15:11).

"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" (Romans 3:24).

This grace is in Jesus for it is a part of who He is.

Paul was able to labour more than the brethren not because of his own working but because of the "grace of God" that was with him.

"But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me." (1 Corinthians 15:10).

This "grace of God" is Jesus Christ. Jesus was the One who had helped Paul to labor more abundantly than His brethren. For Jesus says we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Alright. I'm gonna let you get back to arguing with people about soteriology. I was simply trying to help you understand why you aren't getting anywhere with anyone. Maybe I'm wrong, God knows. I believe the plain reading of the text "how good and pleasant it is when brothers dwell in unity" is applicable. Talking about demeanor is inevitable whenever mutual respect is absent. The Lord knows I was trying to help, not hinder. I'll be on my way.

Grace to you. We'll all be casting the crowns we've clutched at Jesus' feet.

I believe we are living in the last days as per 2 Timothy 3:1-9. But there are believers I have fellowship with who believe that one cannot justify sin with the thinking they can be saved. Again, if you feel I was not being respectful with you (not speaking loving words with you, etc. and treating you badly), then by all means please point out any post #'s that you feel have hurt you that you feel is personally referred to you and I will apologize. Keep in mind that my attack against what I believe is a false belief in popular Christianity is not a lack of respect towards you but it is simply an expression of my viewpoint on sin and salvation in God's Word. By no means is it personal. If you find any post #'s that personally shows a lack of respect to you personally that I have made towards you, then by all means, please let me know and if I feel it is fair, I will apologize. I do not believe I have made any disrespectful comments towards you personally that was not warranted. Note: I did quote your point about complaining but only after you took issue with me personally. We are told to judge not, lest we be judged. Please let me know what words you have issue with that started the whole thing. If I feel I wronged you in some way by your pointing out my words that are not correct, I will be happy to apologize.

May God's grace and peace be unto you always.

 

[ViaCrucis]

But look at this:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, faith is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
— Ephesians 2:8-9

Or:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, salvation is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
— Ephesians 2:8-9

Can it really be saying that faith is not by works?

Here is the Greek text,

τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ τῆς πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον·
te gar chariti este sesosmenoi dia tes pisteos kai touto ouk ex humon theou to doron

For "by grace", that is, by the agency of grace, that which grace has done is "you have been saved"; saving is a past passive completed action, something that has been done to someone. Salvation has been wrought, accomplished, and it has been accomplished for us by grace. How? Through faith. And "that" or "this", this thing we are talking about here--you have been saved by grace through faith--is ouk ex humon, "not from you", it does not come from us. We are not the originators of any of this. It is God's gift.

Therefore it is

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, all of this is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

I don't know how Christians have read the text in the past? Do you got some early Christians to refer to?

"'For by grace,' says he 'have you been saved.'

In order then that the greatness of the benefits bestowed may not raise you too high, observe how he brings you down: "by grace you have been saved," says he,

'Through faith;'

Then, that, on the other hand, our free-will be not impaired, he adds also our part in the work, and yet again cancels it, and adds,

'And that not of ourselves.'

Neither is faith, he means, 'of ourselves.' Because had He not come, had He not called us, how had we been able to believe? For "how," says he, 'shall they believe, unless they hear?' So that the work of faith itself is not our own.

'It is the gift,' said he, 'of God,' it is 'not of works.'" - St. John Chrysostom, Homily 4 on Ephesians, verses 8-9

"For he himself also says, 'By grace ye are saved through faith; and this not of yourselves: but it is the gift of God.'--that is to say, 'And in saying "through faith," even faith itself is not of yourselves, but is God's gift.' 'Not of works,' he says, 'lest any mans should be lifted up.'" - St. Augustine, Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints, Book I, Ch. 12

-CryptoLutheran

 

[zoidar]

Here is the Greek text,

τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ τῆς πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον·
te gar chariti este sesosmenoi dia tes pisteos kai touto ouk ex humon theou to doron

For "by grace", that is, by the agency of grace, that which grace has done is "you have been saved"; saving is a past passive completed action, something that has been done to someone. Salvation has been wrought, accomplished, and it has been accomplished for us by grace. How? Through faith. And "that" or "this", this thing we are talking about here--you have been saved by grace through faith--is ouk ex humon, "not from you", it does not come from us. We are not the originators of any of this. It is God's gift.

Therefore it is

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, all of this is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."



"'For by grace,' says he 'have you been saved.'

In order then that the greatness of the benefits bestowed may not raise you too high, observe how he brings you down: "by grace you have been saved," says he,

'Through faith;'

Then, that, on the other hand, our free-will be not impaired, he adds also our part in the work, and yet again cancels it, and adds,

'And that not of ourselves.'

Neither is faith, he means, "of ourselves." Because had He not come, had He not called us, how had we been able to believe? For "how," says he, "shall they believe, unless they hear?" Romans 10:14 So that the work of faith itself is not our own.

'It is the gift,' said he, 'of God,' it is 'not of works.'" - St. John Chrysostom, Homily 4 on Ephesians, verses 8-9

"For he himself also says, 'By grace ye are saved through faith; and this not of yourselves: but it is the gift of God.'--that is to say, 'And in saying "through faith," even faith itself is not of yourselves, but is God's gift.' 'Not of works,' he says, 'lest any mans should be lifted up.'" - St. Augustine, Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints, Book I, Ch. 12

-CryptoLutheran

Thanks for sharing, I will look into it! God bless!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Here is the Greek text,

τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ τῆς πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον·
te gar chariti este sesosmenoi dia tes pisteos kai touto ouk ex humon theou to doron

For "by grace", that is, by the agency of grace, that which grace has done is "you have been saved"; saving is a past passive completed action, something that has been done to someone. Salvation has been wrought, accomplished, and it has been accomplished for us by grace. How? Through faith. And "that" or "this", this thing we are talking about here--you have been saved by grace through faith--is ouk ex humon, "not from you", it does not come from us. We are not the originators of any of this. It is God's gift.

Therefore it is

"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, all of this is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."



"'For by grace,' says he 'have you been saved.'

In order then that the greatness of the benefits bestowed may not raise you too high, observe how he brings you down: "by grace you have been saved," says he,

'Through faith;'

Then, that, on the other hand, our free-will be not impaired, he adds also our part in the work, and yet again cancels it, and adds,

'And that not of ourselves.'

Neither is faith, he means, 'of ourselves.' Because had He not come, had He not called us, how had we been able to believe? For "how," says he, 'shall they believe, unless they hear?' So that the work of faith itself is not our own.

'It is the gift,' said he, 'of God,' it is 'not of works.'" - St. John Chrysostom, Homily 4 on Ephesians, verses 8-9

"For he himself also says, 'By grace ye are saved through faith; and this not of yourselves: but it is the gift of God.'--that is to say, 'And in saying "through faith," even faith itself is not of yourselves, but is God's gift.' 'Not of works,' he says, 'lest any mans should be lifted up.'" - St. Augustine, Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints, Book I, Ch. 12

-CryptoLutheran

Thanks for sharing, I will look into it! God bless!

@ViaCrucis

Faith is not like some kind of “ability to believe” that God gives to a person.
God is not calling us by some mystical means (if that is what you are suggesting).

God calls us by the gospel.

“Whereunto he called you by our gospel,...” (2 Thessalonians 2:14).

The Bible makes it clear that we cannot believe in Him if we have not heard the gospel (good news) of Jesus Christ (in some form or another).

“How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” (Romans 10:14-17).

Faith is hearing the words of Jesus and the apostles in the Bible.
This is on us and not God to act in faith.
For remember when Jesus marveled at the Centurion's great faith?
Remember when Jesus told others they had little faith?
Remember when Jesus told someone that if they had faith as the size of a mustard seed?

When Ephesians 2:8 says, “not that of ourselves” it is referring to salvation and verse 9 clarifies what the “not that of ourselves” is referring to, by saying: “not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:9). Meaning, one cannot save themselves by “Works Alone Salvationism” (Without God's grace through faith). For there are many people today who believe in God and Heaven, but have never accepted Jesus and His grace. They believe that their good deeds will outweight their bad deeds like on some kind of cosmic scale of judgment from God. But they fail to realize that their past slate of sin will condemn them if they don't accept Jesus and His grace and mercy (including the acceptance of the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

Paul is referring to the 1st aspect of salvation in Ephesians 2:8-9. We are saved by God's grace through faith (belief) in Jesus and what He has done for us with His death, burial, and resurrection. This is an aspect of salvation without the deeds of the law. But faith does not end there. Faith continues and it manifests itself with the “work of faith.” (1 Thessalonians 1:3, 2 Thessalonians 1:11).

As for the implying that grace and faith appear to be past events:

Actually, if that is what you are claiming: That is not true.

For We are told to...

1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).
   
   
2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).

Anyways, I hope this information from the Bible helps, and may God bless you.

 

[Ceallaigh]

It would speak badly of the character of God in regards to fair justice in that a believer would not be punished in the final end for being evil

Does it speak badly of the character of God in regards to fair justice in that an unbeliever is punished in the final end no matter how much good they did? As those who use Ray Comfort's method of evangelizing ask, "do you think Mother Teressa is in heaven because of all the good she did?".

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Does it speak badly of the character of God in regards to fair justice in that an unbeliever is punished in the final end no matter how much good they did? As those who use Ray Comfort's method of evangelizing ask, "do you think Mother Teressa is in heaven because of the good she did?".

God does not condemn based on the good they did for the Lord (if their motive was truly pure), but God condemns them for their sins. I believe the Catholic church is unbiblical in that they pray to dead saints (making them out to be gods), bow down to statues (idolatry), and they confess sins to a priest (When confession of sin is to Jesus - 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9, Hebrews 4:16), among many other problems.

Also, a person needs to first be saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ and the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 before they can do that which is righteous and good. For the righteous and or good they do is the Lord working through them and not themselves. In most cases (not all): Those who do not know the Lord and they do good are doing so based on their own sin filled motives and they are not operating by the working of God within them. If a person justifies sin and evil by God's grace, then God would have to agree with their line of thinking that it is okay for them to sin in order to save them. But God cannot agree with sin because He is righteous and holy, and good. The Lord only abides in those who keep His commands (1 John 2:3-4). A person needs to abide in the Lord in order to be saved (See: 1 John 5:12).

“Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” (John 10:32-33).

 

[Ceallaigh]

If a person justifies sin and evil by God's grace, then they most likely haven't actually been saved.

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not!" Romans 6:1-2

Likewise if a person tries to justify themselves by how good they are, they're most likely going to hell.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If a person justifies sin and evil by God's grace, then they most likely haven't actually been saved.

Christians may say this but they do not agree with the terms according to the Bible of what sin is and or how to deal with it properly. Believers need to confess and forsake sin to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13) (1 John 1:9) (1 John 1:7).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not!" Romans 6:1-2

But most Christians today admitted to me they can sin and still be saved on some level. They think 1 John 1:8 and Romans 7:14-24 are excuses to sin in some way because they cannot help it.

Likewise if a person tries to justify themselves by how good they are, they're most likely going to hell.

This would be true for a person who never accepted Jesus as their Savior and His grace. But this is not the case after a person is saved by God's grace. James 2:24 says, “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

Romans 2:7 says,
“To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:”

For Hebrews 12:14 says we are to follow after holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.

Hebrews 5:9 basically says Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

Jesus said that everyone who does not do what He says is like a fool who built His house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).

But there are those whose understanding is darkened, and who are passed feeling. These types will not be able to see the above verses in what they say. I pray that is not the case for anyone here. I pray that all here will see the verses I put forth in the Lord's proper timing for their lives.

 

[Points To Ponder]

It seems to me that this issue goes in circles among debaters. It's man's choice to exercise faith (free will) by obtaining it from the scriptures. I think you could say that when a person executes this faith it could be considered a gift from God. For example, you can accept or not accept a birthday gift from someone but once you do it becomes a gift from that person. In short, your correct choice is a gift.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Christians may say this but they do not agree with the terms according to the Bible of what sin is and or how to deal with it properly. Believers need to confess and forsake sin to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13) (1 John 1:9) (1 John 1:7).



But most Christians today admitted to me they can sin and still be saved on some level. They think 1 John 1:8 and Romans 7:14-24 are excuses to sin in some way because they cannot help it.



This would be true for a person who never accepted Jesus as their Savior and His grace. But this is not the case after a person is saved by God's grace. James 2:24 says, “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.”

Romans 2:7 says,
“To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:”

For Hebrews 12:14 says we are to follow after holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.

Hebrews 5:9 basically says Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

Jesus said that everyone who does not do what He says is like a fool who built His house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).

But there are those whose understanding is darkened, and who are passed feeling. These types will not be able to see the above verses in what they say. I pray that is not the case for anyone here. I pray that all here will see the verses I put forth in the Lord's proper timing for their lives.

If the blood of Jesus doesn't cover a certain amount of sinning we're all toast. Like you said, God knows your heart, mind and soul. He knows when you're struggling and stumbling and when you're just having fun with no regard for Him. There's no loophole that can be exploited. God knows exactly what's going on with each person.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If the blood of Jesus doesn't cover a certain amount of sinning we're all toast. Like you said, God knows your heart, mind and soul. He knows when you're struggling and stumbling and when you're just having fun with no regard for Him. There's no loophole that can be exploited. God knows exactly what's going on with each person.

See 1 John 1:7 for additional conditions that relate to the blood of Jesus cleansing us.

 

[Theologyofone]

Faith, if it is a gift, is something we must accept to possess. I would not overthink it. I believe we can choose faith or unbelief.

God gives faith do explicit verses are John 1:12 and Philippians 1:29

I have state else when that man is dead in his sin and cannot come to God on his own God 1 Cor. 2:14 provides the grace and the faith.


Philippians 1:29. For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

John 1:12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

God draws us to Him,

John 6: 44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

God draws us with the word,

James 1:18. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

By the Word we are Born-Again

1 Peter 1:23. Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

God gives us the faith for this

All this by God’s Grace not our works,

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[renniks]

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Receiving is an action on our part.

 

[Theologyofone]

Receiving is an action on our part.

It was God who drew them by his Grace and gave them the faith. Like Paul on the road Damascus He was overwhelmed that he was in the presents of the Living Lord. Verse 13 explains this that God is the author of salvation 13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. we are born n not by our will, or the will of the flesh but of God. The risen Lord was not something that Paul could have denied He layed hold of what he was experiencing. not action necessary it was a state of being.

 

[Ceallaigh]

See 1 John 1:7 for additional conditions that relate to the blood of Jesus cleansing us.

What you seem to tend to see as requiremental conditions needed to stay out of hell, I see as simply being comforts and reassurances.

 

[renniks]

It was God who drew them by his Grace and gave them the faith. Like Paul on the road Damascus He was overwhelmed that he was in the presents of the Living Lord. Verse 13 explains this that God is the author of salvation 13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. we are born n not by our will, or the will of the flesh but of God. The risen Lord was not something that Paul could have denied He layed hold of what he was experiencing. not action necessary it was a state of being.

Paul certainly could have decided not to follow Christ. He might have been blind forever, but he had that option. There's lots of verses that tell us belief is what is required for salvation. It doesn't just happen. God doesn't just zap some with faith and ignore all the others.

 

[Theologyofone]

I am sorry Paul couldn't deny his election. John 10:28 "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.” So when the Almighty make His self known to you your reactions are as Paul and Isaiah you realize the Grace and mercy bestowed upon you and you bend the knee. Your reactions do not save you Luther states it this way

Salvation is all a work of God. It is by faith only. Luther describes the crossing over like this.
"When God works in us, the will, being changed and sweetly breathed on by the Spirit of God, desires and acts not from compulsion but responsively" (Bondage of the Will, XXV).

Luther describes it beautifully. It’s all a work of God but at the same time it is our freewill. God’s drawing becomes irresistible (or effectual) our will desires Him “responsively”.