I believe the manuscripts are inerrant- not translations.
Divine inpiration of the originals is pointless if there is no divine preservation of those originals into a language that we are familiar with today. God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. God was able to translate perfectly fine the languages at Pentecost. But many think God has changed (But He hasn't). The apostle Paul is not alive to confirm if we are getting our Greek correct. Moses is not alive today to see if we are getting our Hebrew correct. For not even all scholars agree with each other. Nowhere does the Bible teach that we have to look to a more ancient language in order to understand His Word. God always communicated with His people in a language that they would understand. Why? Because God is not the author of confusion. I mean, it's difficult enough for people to agree on the Bible in English, and you want to make it even more difficult that we must understand the Bible in languages that are dead?
alright here we go again. Apply your own reasoning to your own position. So, do you plainly accept 2 Thessalonians 2:13,
The word “
chosen” in 2 Thessalonians 2:13 is used here more in reference to like being appointed for a particular office or task to carry out a specific function. That does not mean that an elected official cannot be removed. So chosen is not used here as in the sense of fatalism. Jesus says that He chose the twelve disciples (John 6:70). Yet, Judas turned out to be a devil, and he betrayed the Lord. So just because somebody is chosen to salvation does not mean they will be saved in the end as a matter of fact. This is why Paul continues to say in 2 Thessalonians 2, “Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.” (2 Thessalonians 2:15). If their fate was sealed in being saved, then Paul would not encourage them to stand fast and hold to the teachings they had been taught. He would just let them be because he knows they are forever saved no matter what. But Paul is not speaking in any Calvinistic way in verse 15. The same is true for 2 Thessalonians 2:10. There is no MIGHT BE SAVED in Calvinism. Yet, that is exactly what 2 Thessalonians 2:10 says.
You said:
Acts of the Apostles 13:48,
I explained this verse in this thead here:
What does "...as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" mean in Acts 13:48?
You said:
God elects according to His foreknowledge (1 Peter 1:1-2).
This means God chooses those who He knows by His future foreknowledge of those He knows will accept Him. But in Calvinism, it is UNconditional Election. Yet, my Bible says that God elects according to foreknowedge. So my Bible teaches Conditional Election, and not UNconditional Election.
You said:
the entire thought of Romans 9, and many more?
However, Romans 9 is not isolated from the rest of the book of Romans.
The whole point of Romans 9 was written with the Jew in mind in how they were trying to earn salvation by “
Works Alone Salvationism” (without God's grace through Jesus Christ), and how they found favor with God based on their nationality (in that they were God's people, Israel).
Romans 9:6-8 is a refutation of the Israelite's false belief of salvific nationalism.
Romans 9:9-16 is a refutation of the Israelite's false belief of “
Works Alone Salvationism” (without Jesus and His grace). The passage also adds in saying that salvation is by him who calls
[upon the name of the Lord Jesus] (Compare Romans 9:11 with Romans 10:13).
Romans 9:17-18 sets up the dilemma for the Israelite in being saved by God's grace and mercy on His terms. Pharaoh was hardened on God's terms in that we know that a person's heart is hardened by their own sin. For a believer who sins and hardens their heart, they can then fall into unbelief and depart from the living God (See: Hebrews 3:12-15). Sin is the breaking of the Law or commandment (1 John 3:4). The Israelite was hardening their heart against God on account of their sin or disobedience to the command to believe in Jesus (1 John 3:23).
Romans 9:19 is the Israelite complaining about how can God find fault because they believe they are doing God's will as an Israelite.
Romans 9:20 A voice answers the Israelite and criticizes the Israelite. The voice asks a question from the Israelite's perspective, “Why have you made me this way
[i.e. as an Israelite, a keeper of the Law]?”
When reading Romans 9:21-23, we have to keep in mind that God elects based on His foreknowledge (His future foreknowledge of what they are going to do) (1 Peter 1:1-2). The language present in this passage is reminiscent of Jeremiah 18 about how God will form the clay based upon how a nation does not hear his voice, He will turn back on the good He would do unto them. God warns Jerusalem and Judah that He frames evil against them unless they repent. Meaning, based on what we do, a person will fall into one of two categories. The resurrection of life, and the resurrection of the damned (i.e. the vessels of wrath and mercy). God will render to every man according to his deeds (See: Romans 2:6).
Romans 9:30-32 clarifies (recaps) what was being said:
“What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because
they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;” (Romans 9:30-32).
“...
rather through their fall salvation
is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.” (Romans 11:11).
So Romans 9 is really not talking about Calvinistic Unconditional Election.
Even the word “call” used in Romans 9 in reference to God calling does not prove that God is forcing anything upon a person. For many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 22:14).
You said:
Have you figured out that I'm not arguing with you about soteriology, but that I am concerned with your reasoning?
Right, I am concerned with your reasoning in that you don't explain any verses in how they mean what they plainly say. I am concerned with your reasoning in that you think God creates people for the specific purpose in life to be tortured alive for all eternity (and they had no other choice in the matter).
Bible Highlighter said:
We all need to examine or prove that Christ is in us (
1 Corinthians 13:5).
I am not above the Word of God anymore than you are.
The way we can prove this whether or not we keep His commandments (
1 John 2:3-4).
You said:
I think we agree on this.
So you believe that if a believer does not keep God's commandments they are not saved?
You said:
I think you mean God is not like the way I think He is... Calvinism is not wrong because it attacks the good character of God. We don't need to go there.
But you fail to see it is like a master who kicks his dog across the room like a football because it has an uncontrollable pooping problem because it is sick. The master simply does not care and just kicks the animal anyways.
You said:
That's not a scripture you're quoting friend He is just, and he is good.
The God of the Bible is just and good. But the way Calvinists describe God is unlike what we read about in the Bible. No offense, but I believe they misunderstand Romans 9 and thus create a distorted image of Him.
You said:
He could have sent us all to hell and still be just.
Sorry, that would have never happened. God is love; And God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son.
You said:
Did you know that? God: good. Men: not good apart from God.
I already provided to you 1 John 2:3-4 that shows that.
But the indicator is fruit and not a belief alone.
You said:
I've got more evidence for Calvinism being true than you have for the KJV being the only inspired version. Let that sink in.
There are 75 flat Earth verses that Flat Earth Christians use to prove a Flat Earth, but that does not mean they are correct.
You said:
At the end of the day, I don't care about which "system" is true. I care about God's truth. There may be elements of Calvinism that turn out to be wrong in the end. I'm okay with that. Let God be true and every man a liar. It's not that I want so badly for it to be true, but rather I want God's truth to be honored. Again, turn your own reasoning back on yourself. Maybe you just want Calvinism to be false for some odd reason. Free will maybe? I don't know what you're thinking, but you don't know what I'm thinking either. Things are not always as you want them to be.
Blessings, friend
Again, I don't think a person will just accept Calvinism without having a mindset to wanting it to be true in some way. The same is true for Flat Earthers. If a person is repulsed by the idea of Calvinism, they don't have to read too far in their Bible to disprove such a belief. Verses like 2 Thessalonians 2:10, Jonah 3:6-10, Deuteronomy 30:19 should make it obvious to a person that Calvinism is a failed belief system if they are not biased towards Calvinism.