Is Evolution a "posthuman" concept?

[DaneaFL]

What happened in the last 50,000 years which promoted this change?

The migration of humans around the planet.

The Evolution of Human Skin Pigmentation - YouTube

Are those factors still exist?

yes.

When would we see an orange or a green race?

never... why would we?

This is getting tedious... It's frustrating having to do all your research for you. Why don't you watch some youtube videos yourself? I can't replace years of science education in just a few short forum posts.

 

[Loudmouth]

What happened in the last 50,000 years which promoted this change?

Migration out of Africa followed by establishment of less mobile populations.

Are those factors still exist? When would we see an orange or a green race?

When will start asking honest questions?

 

[TLK Valentine]

This is getting tedious... It's frustrating having to do all your research for you.

He's a creationist -- what did you expect?

 

[juvenissun]

Then you misunderstood what I was saying. (Note that I have not said anything about whether races are meaningful divisions of humans. I phrased my response here pretty carefully.)


Yes. Any change to the genetic makeup of populations represents evolutionary change. The fact that any two populations of humans almost always differ subtly in the their genetics means that they have been evolving.


I'm not playing any tricks with definitions; I'm using the word "evolution" exactly as I do every day, at work and in publications. Will evolution lead to different human species? In principle it could, but it won't in the foreseeable future. The population is too large and too interconnected for speciation to occur.

If so, why didn't human evolve into different species at earlier time (not too far back from now) when the interconnection was not good? If you count the time scale, we should have seen significant evolutional change already.

How long have Eskimos existed? Are they becoming a different human species? Is their genetic code much more different from ours then the difference between, say, whites and blacks? Is there a list which compared the genetic codes among different races? Inter-racial marriage is still rare compared with the general population. Are we seeing that the genetic codes of African people departing away from that of Asian people?

 

[mzungu]

What happened in the last 50,000 years which promoted this change? Are those factors still exist? When would we see an orange or a green race?

50,000 years But wasn't the Earth and universe created only 6,000 years ago

 

[sfs]

If so, why didn't human evolve into different species at earlier time (not too far back from now) when the interconnection was not good?

We did evolve into different species earlier -- Homo erectus, Neandertals (which were on the fuzzy edge of being a different species), Homo floriensis (probably), and others even earlier.

If you count the time scale, we should have seen significant evolutional change already.

In ~500,000 years of separation, Neandertals and the African ancestors of modern humans became noticeably different, but not so different that they couldn't interbreed. You're talking about one-tenth that time. Why do you think we should have split into different species in 2000 generations?

How long have Eskimos existed? Are they becoming a different human species?

Perhaps 8000 years. Genetically, they're about 50% derived from a relatively recent (<10,000 years, probably) migration from Asia, and 50% from the earlier migration represented by other Native Americans. They have not existed as a separate group for long, and they've had substantial interbreeding with surrounding populations throughout; even quite modest amounts of gene flow usually prevent speciation. So no, they're not becoming a different species. They are a reasonably distinct population, probably with their own set of local adaptations.

Is their genetic code much more different from ours then the difference between, say, whites and blacks?

I don't know who you mean by "ours" here -- is there some default ethnic group for CF readers? They are genetically more similar to east Asians than Asians are to Europeans or Africans, and more similar to Europeans than Europeans are to Africans.

(Note: you don't mean different genetic codes. The genetic code is the mapping from DNA to amino acid, and that is identical for all humans. You're just talking about genetic difference.)

Is there a list which compared the genetic codes among different races?

There are extensive data sets of genetic variation within and between many populations. Eskimos, in particular, were studied in a paper that came out last month.

Inter-racial marriage is still rare compared with the general population. Are we seeing that the genetic codes of African people departing away from that of Asian people?

Intermarriage (and more relevantly, interbreeding) is extremely common, genetically speaking. What differences there are between populations were largely the result of isolation by distance, and that has disappeared with modern migrations and transport. Difference are being homogenized much faster than they are appearing.

 

[juvenissun]

We did evolve into different species earlier -- Homo erectus, Neandertals (which were on the fuzzy edge of being a different species), Homo floriensis (probably), and others even earlier.

Why does it stop at the Homo erectus? Was the interbreeding frequent enough then to stop the evolution?

In a populated country such as India or China, the majority of people do not interbreed for many thousands of years (they still don't today). Would that create some genetic differences among those populations?

 

[mzungu]

Why does it stop at the Homo erectus? Was the interbreeding frequent enough then to stop the evolution?

In a populated country such as India or China, the majority of people do not interbreed for many thousands of years (they still don't today). Would that create some genetic differences among those populations?

The rate at which evolution creates change depends on the pressure to change. Human evolution just like all life evolution has not stopped. Just because you do not see a tree grow does not mean it does not grow!

You obviously know nothing of ToE and thus do not comprehend it enough to dismiss it.

You are basically beating a dead horse!

 

[juvenissun]

Perhaps 8000 years. Genetically, they're about 50% derived from a relatively recent (<10,000 years, probably) migration from Asia, and 50% from the earlier migration represented by other Native Americans. They have not existed as a separate group for long, and they've had substantial interbreeding with surrounding populations throughout; even quite modest amounts of gene flow usually prevent speciation. So no, they're not becoming a different species. They are a reasonably distinct population, probably with their own set of local adaptations.


I don't know who you mean by "ours" here -- is there some default ethnic group for CF readers? They are genetically more similar to east Asians than Asians are to Europeans or Africans, and more similar to Europeans than Europeans are to Africans.

(Note: you don't mean different genetic codes. The genetic code is the mapping from DNA to amino acid, and that is identical for all humans. You're just talking about genetic difference.)

So, what is the nature of the genetic "difference". Be mercy on my ignorance to genetics. Thanks.

 

[juvenissun]

The rate at which evolution creates change depends on the pressure to change. Human evolution just like all life evolution has not stopped. Just because you do not see a tree grow does not mean it does not grow!

You obviously know nothing of ToE and thus do not comprehend it enough to dismiss it.

You are basically beating a dead horse!

If that is what all you can say, then I understood it long long time ago.

 

[juvenissun]

In ~500,000 years of separation, Neandertals and the African ancestors of modern humans became noticeably different, but not so different that they couldn't interbreed. You're talking about one-tenth that time. Why do you think we should have split into different species in 2000 generations?

We do have example of fast speciation which took place in hundreds of years (those are used to argue for evolution). We have also seen something did not evolve at all over millions of years.

If human race is an indication of human evolution, then how fast did it happen?

 

[mzungu]

We do have example of fast speciation which took place in hundreds of years (those are used to argue for evolution). We have also seen something did not evolve at all over millions of years.

If human race is an indication of human evolution, then how fast did it happen?

You did not pay attention to my previous post. Human evolution rate (just like all evolution rates) depends on the pressure for change imposed on the life form. If you cannot understand this then I am afraid you will never understand ToE.

An example of extreme pressure that caused humans to evolve and thus adapt is Malaria. Humans exposed to the malaria causing plasmodium parasite evolved to resist infection by genetically passing the trait for sickle cell anaemia. Africans carry this trait genetically simply because it gives them an advantage. Humans living in non malarial environments have no need for this trait.

Here read this article and perhaps you may learn something:

Study shows humans still evolving

 

[Loudmouth]

Why does it stop at the Homo erectus?

Who says that it did?

Was the interbreeding frequent enough then to stop the evolution?

You still get evolution within interbreeding populations.

In a populated country such as India or China, the majority of people do not interbreed for many thousands of years (they still don't today). Would that create some genetic differences among those populations?

You would also have to consider population sizes. The larger the population the more difficult it is to move a mutation towards fixation, depending on the strength of selection. A slightly beneficial allele will take some time reaching fixation in a population of a billion people. So yes, differences will occur, but those differences will be diluted within each population.

 

[juvenissun]

You would also have to consider population sizes. The larger the population the more difficult it is to move a mutation towards fixation, depending on the strength of selection. A slightly beneficial allele will take some time reaching fixation in a population of a billion people. So yes, differences will occur, but those differences will be diluted within each population.

So are the genetic differences between the average Indian people (as a group, because most of them "intra-breed" even today) and average Chinese people (same situation) become bigger and bigger? If not, why not?

You may choose groups of small population to answer this question. But I do not know the name of the group which has small population and is not interbreeding. I am sure there are many. For example, a small tribe in a remote area of some isolated place. That is why I used Eskimos.

 

[juvenissun]

You did not pay attention to my previous post. Human evolution rate (just like all evolution rates) depends on the pressure for change imposed on the life form. If you cannot understand this then I am afraid you will never understand ToE.

An example of extreme pressure that caused humans to evolve and thus adapt is Malaria. Humans exposed to the malaria causing plasmodium parasite evolved to resist infection by genetically passing the trait for sickle cell anaemia. Africans carry this trait genetically simply because it gives them an advantage. Humans living in non malarial environments have no need for this trait.

Here read this article and perhaps you may learn something:

Study shows humans still evolving

Did the past glaciation periods also give extreme pressure to human? What kind of evolution change was caused by that?

 

[Loudmouth]

So are the genetic differences between the average Indian people (as a group, because most of them "intra-breed" even today) and average Chinese people (same situation) become bigger and bigger? If not, why not?

If no interbreeding occurs, yes it will increase over time. There is no way to really stop it.

You may choose groups of small population to answer this question. But I do not know the name of the group which has small population and is not interbreeding. I am sure there are many. For example, a small tribe in a remote area of some isolated place. That is why I used Eskimos.

A better example may be y-chromosome haplogroups:

Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As each population establishes itself you get mutations in the y-chromosome that stay within that population. Some of those mutations will move towards fixation through neutral drift if given enough time. That is exactly what we see. Different human populations have different y-chromosome mutations, and this allows us to trace historic human migrations.

 

[juvenissun]

If no interbreeding occurs, yes it will increase over time. There is no way to really stop it.



A better example may be y-chromosome haplogroups:

Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As each population establishes itself you get mutations in the y-chromosome that stay within that population. Some of those mutations will move towards fixation through neutral drift if given enough time. That is exactly what we see. Different human populations have different y-chromosome mutations, and this allows us to trace historic human migrations.

So, why don't we have a new human species? Are you a new species since your y-chromosome is different from your ancestor 1000 years ago? Which one of the two is called human? If both are, then why is the change meaningful?

 

[mzungu]

So, why don't we have a new human species? Are you a new species since your y-chromosome is different from your ancestor 1000 years ago? Which one of the two is called human? If both are, then why is the change meaningful?

You may as well ask which of the dog breeds is a dog!

 

[mzungu]

Creationist view vs Reality!
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[juvenissun]

You may as well ask which of the dog breeds is a dog!

Good idea. Do we ever see a new dog species showed up?
Why can dog have new species and human can not?